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Post by dok on Feb 25, 2024 13:22:14 GMT -6
Seeking input on the following thought process:
I have 4U in my rack to work with, and more rack space is not an option as this is built into my desk. Currently that's occupied by the following 1U pieces:
a). MOTU 828es
b). API A2D
c). AEA RPQ2
d). open
And then sitting on top of the rack is a 1176 clone (2U). So I have 5U altogether, rather inelegantly situated, and I'd like to get it to 4, somehow. The main question:
a). Are the RPQ2 and API covering too much of the same sonic territory? Until recently I hadn't thought of them as "bright" preamps, but someone described them as such in another thread and it got me thinking. Currently I track vocals and piano through the RPQ and bass and electric guitar through the API. Buuut, I track electric with a ribbon anyway...
IF SO, the next idea would be to get rid of the API and utilize the resulting open 2U for the 1176 clone a UA 6176. Seeing similar prices for the two pieces on the used market (~$1500, which is where my budget tops out). Rather than just putting the 1176 clone, which I actually really like, in that open 2U, the 6176 would also give me the 1176 AND a tube preamp in that same space, with the tube preamp as something I don't currently have.
So I'd be sacrificing a pair of nice preamps for a quite different nice preamp and a compressor, essentially, while still having two decent pairs of preamps in the 828 and AEA, while making my rack look much tidier. But maybe I'd end up missing the API, which also has the really useful SPDIF connectivity.
Also seeing some good used prices on the Heritage Audio Britstrip, which would give me 1073-style pres and diode bridge-style compression instead of FET, in an even more space-efficient 1U.
tl;dr: Get rid of API? Replace with 6176 or Britstrip?
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Post by Shadowk on Feb 25, 2024 13:26:15 GMT -6
After three 6176's I'm going to give that a no, sell the API and get two Shelford channels. Done..
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Post by dok on Feb 25, 2024 14:14:37 GMT -6
After three 6176's I'm going to give that a no, sell the API and get two Shelford channels. Done.. If I sold all of my outboard pieces I could buy 75% of one new Shelford Channel.  A bit outside my budget, unfortunately. What didn't you like about the 6176? It's interesting that if you try to read people's experiences about the LA-610, the impression I get is that people tend prefer the 6176 to it. And so then when you go read about the 6176, there's a fair amount of dislike for that, so I definitely want to understand where the negative opinions are coming from. Thanks! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 25, 2024 16:30:51 GMT -6
It seems like an odd thought process to change gear out just to make rack space.
Why not go on Etsy and have someone make you a nice custom wooden 2u rack with rubber feet? Throw it on top of a filing cabinet or something and you're done.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 25, 2024 16:38:05 GMT -6
Also you might want to take a look at the UA 4-710. Flies under the radar for whatever reason but I really like mine and you can get a pretty wide variety of sounds out of those preamps.
And the light 1176 that it has works great for tracking, I wouldn't try to mix with it but the settings are really well tuned for its intended use.
It's also a really great studio centerpiece if you want to expand. Take advantage of your ADAT on your MOTU. For $2k you get
- 4 pres with variable tube/transformer knobs that actually work
- usable compression as well as inserts on all pres
- 4 jfet DI that are actually really great
- 4 separate TRS inputs
- bare bones analog limiter for all 8 channels
That's kind of a crazy set of features when you think about it at that price point. They came out with these things like over a decade ago and they're still making them, it's not gimmicky. All that stuff is quality. Stripped down yeah, but quality.
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Post by Shadowk on Feb 25, 2024 17:17:43 GMT -6
If I sold all of my outboard pieces I could buy 75% of one new Shelford Channel. A bit outside my budget, unfortunately. What didn't you like about the 6176? It's interesting that if you try to read people's experiences about the LA-610, the impression I get is that people tend prefer the 6176 to it. And so then when you go read about the 6176, there's a fair amount of dislike for that, so I definitely want to understand where the negative opinions are coming from. Thanks! I promise that I'm not trying to be facetious here but this is audio engineering, it takes a while but you find out what tools serve best for certain applications. A 610 is great for slowing down transients and taking the edge off harsher mic's but when combined with certain dynamics or tube mic's it's not going to have a positive effect. These amps don't have tons of headroom either but they certainly have their uses with TLM mic's or brighter sensitive LDC's for sure.
That's the thing, a decent transformer based amp can work well with multiple things but the 6176 is a tool for specific uses. I will also say don't buy something in the here and now just because, make the best of what you have, save up, get the best and then keep it forever.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 25, 2024 17:55:46 GMT -6
Sell both preamps and 1176, get a 10 space 500 series rack and go that route.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 25, 2024 18:03:29 GMT -6
Sell both preamps and 1176, get a 10 space 500 series rack and go that route. It's not the worst idea. You could put together a poor man's Shelford with RND 500 stuff. |
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Post by notneeson on Feb 25, 2024 18:37:47 GMT -6
My personal experience:
a.) Not at all, keep what you have until you have a far less theoretical reason to flip the API.
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 25, 2024 18:46:15 GMT -6
My personal experience: a.) Not at all, keep what you have until you have a far less theoretical reason to flip the API. Agreed - they don't cover the same sonic territory in my mind at all.
Re: the LA-610 vs. 6176 reviews, I think this is due to the price points as much as anything. A lot of guys who get an LA-610, that's a stretch up to their first compressor and outboard pre in a lot of cases. For someone's first outboard, it's like, "yeah! This is so much better than interface pres and no compressor!" But for 6176 money, there are simply better options. It's not as many people's first outboard, so they have something to compare to.
I had a 6176 for a couple years, and if it's all I had to track with, I could certainly make it work no problem. But it's far from the best option. The 1176 side sounds just fine, but the 610 is just kind of mediocre to me. There are many better preamp options. A WT-72 smokes the 610 IMHO.
I understand all too well the situation of having a small room and not enough rack space to go around. But I agree with Jesse: if you're trying to make room in your limited rack space, get rid of some of your current gear and go 500 series. Lots of good options there.
But don't sell that RPQ2.
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Post by dok on Feb 25, 2024 18:56:45 GMT -6
But don't sell that RPQ2.
NEVER |
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Post by Dan on Feb 25, 2024 20:12:22 GMT -6
Keep the outboard you think sounds cool. Ditch the MOTU.
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 25, 2024 23:39:32 GMT -6
I have to agree with gravesnumber9 on the uad 4-710. For a long time it was my whole setup. I did everything with that unit. It still sits as the heart of my system. Nowadays it’s dedicated for my drums. But I run my 4 additional pre’s thru the 4-710 so 8 in total and also use it as converter. The cool thing about it is that you can get them for a decent price/channel, quite versatile, great sound and you can grow with the unit. It will likely not get redundant. And hey 😉, 4 pre’s in 2u with a good converter and what not.
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Post by svart on Feb 26, 2024 8:35:12 GMT -6
I can't answer your question because I don't really know your workflow, but I've found that I need about 30% more preamps on any session than I ever think I'll need. I'd always go for more preamps than more compression or effects.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 26, 2024 9:38:11 GMT -6
Here's a 4-710 for $1,799 on Reverb, B-Stock from Pro Audio Star. $450/channel for preamp/compression/insert/DI/conversion plus proper line in and line out with line/mic switching. Then as a bonus you get four more channels of line inputs with conversion. All in a battle tested unit that has earned its stripes over the years. At that price per channel you're competing with (and blowing away) Presonus and ART and the like. reverb.com/item/14262382-universal-audio-4-710d-four-channel-tone-blending-mic-pre-1176-dynamics-a-d |
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Post by dagogo on Feb 26, 2024 20:24:52 GMT -6
If you did sell the API you could get that tabletop Daking mic pre one as your primary preamp for bass/guitar. It also has a nice DI. Can always use your RPQ2 as backup.
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 26, 2024 21:07:20 GMT -6
If you did sell the API you could get that tabletop Daking mic pre one as your primary preamp for bass/guitar. It also has a nice DI. Can always use your RPQ2 as backup.
He could track a whole record (minus drums or stereo sources) with a table top Daking and be pretty flipping happy. |
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Post by doubledog on Feb 27, 2024 9:07:18 GMT -6
I use 500 series so I'm probably biased, but it's space efficient (10 slots in 3U) and there are tons of options (including AEA RPQ for 500). If you can solder, then get a CAPI kit (for API style), get a Hairball Copper (for Neve style). Or the used market for 500 series is pretty active too if you know where to look (and you can save some $ - of course with some risk). or buy B-stock/demos.
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Post by Quint on Feb 27, 2024 9:21:38 GMT -6
It seems like an odd thought process to change gear out just to make rack space. Why not go on Etsy and have someone make you a nice custom wooden 2u rack with rubber feet? Throw it on top of a filing cabinet or something and you're done. Agreed. Get more rack space. Find a place to put an 8u rack, so you have room to expand. Put it off to the side, or under the desk, or whatever. 4u of rack space seems very limiting anyway. What fun is that?  There are cheap used racks on Craigslist all the time. It doesn't have to be fancy. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 27, 2024 9:32:55 GMT -6
i think I have a solution for you after all. Pick up a Neve 1073OPX or a Heritage Super 8, sell the rest except the 1176. Pick up a desk top interface with adat and 2-4 channels, many goodies around, and you are good to go. 10-12 channels and your 1176 in 4U with a nice interface/monitor controller on the desk. 😜 Now you can track the mother load with 4U. Ain’t that the shit?
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A bit outside my budget, unfortunately.
