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Post by bluesholyman on Feb 19, 2024 20:52:24 GMT -6
I am working on a demo and while I am not a bass player, I am having a go at laying down a bass track for the country song my co-writer and I are working on.
I am running a Fender P-Bass into my WA73eq and after watching a few online recommendations, and knob twidling while I listen, I landed here for a sound I like:
Gain - 1 click above off
High Pass - 50Hz
Low Shelf - 35 Hz maxed
Mids - 360Hz lightly boosted
Highs - off
Output - half'ish, depending on interface levels.
Some toobers suggested the high pass stay off but I found this made things a bit too wooly on the E string - lost some definition. I think I might have to roll it off in the mix at 80 but will see when I get there. I figure let me track the most info I can and reduce whats there later than try to boost whats not.
Curious what works for you. Thanks as always.
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Post by notneeson on Feb 19, 2024 21:04:13 GMT -6
Wait, you’re boosting 35hz as high as it will go and then high passing at 50hz?
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Post by damoongo on Feb 19, 2024 21:07:39 GMT -6
I landed here for a sound I like You are done. |
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Post by bluesholyman on Feb 19, 2024 21:22:15 GMT -6
Wait, you’re boosting 35hz as high as it will go and then high passing at 50hz? Yeah, would be interesting to see on the spectrum whats actually happening there, perhaps making the shelf a bit more subtle with the push happening below it. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 20, 2024 6:10:41 GMT -6
I don’t have the eq in my pre but I tend to eq with an Aquilar Tonehammer to taste before going into the 73 and la2a. I shelf off enough in the lows maybe 30-50hz depending on the sound, not to interfere with the compression. But leave enough to be able to shape in the mix depending where the bass will sit in relation to drums. The punch in the bass i anyway fairly high up. So I guess you should be within the ballpark with those settings if the sound pleases you.
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Post by nick8801 on Feb 20, 2024 6:56:38 GMT -6
Cranking 35hz is interesting. What are you monitoring on? I would take the track out to my car or something and make sure the bass isn't totally exploding below where you can hear in your studio. Even with a hi-pass engaged, lots of those frequencies still exist.
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Post by theshea on Feb 20, 2024 7:17:06 GMT -6
i have the AML ez1073 and it would sound crazy muddy and boomy wirh those settings. a little eq goes a looong way!
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2024 7:39:50 GMT -6
That's an old Andy Wallace trick. Cranking 40hz on an EQ then using HPF after. It causes a lot of harmonics of the 40hz to pop up in the pass band while any fundamentals around 40hz are cut off since nobody listens to music down there.
I'm not sure if the WA73 has the filters after or before the EQ bands but it would make a difference if it were.
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 20, 2024 7:44:53 GMT -6
Now i noticed the output setting of “halfish”. I don’t know how the warm output stage is set. But normally if you go 50% attenuation on a 73 there is some mushiness involved for sure. I dont tend to go more than 25% on bae. Already there you will have nice tone but no mushing up.
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Post by nick8801 on Feb 20, 2024 8:58:21 GMT -6
That's an old Andy Wallace trick. Cranking 40hz on an EQ then using HPF after. It causes a lot of harmonics of the 40hz to pop up in the pass band while any fundamentals around 40hz are cut off since nobody listens to music down there. I'm not sure if the WA73 has the filters after or before the EQ bands but it would make a difference if it were. Oh yeah, I remember seeing a video on that back in the day. |
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2024 9:27:56 GMT -6
That's an old Andy Wallace trick. Cranking 40hz on an EQ then using HPF after. It causes a lot of harmonics of the 40hz to pop up in the pass band while any fundamentals around 40hz are cut off since nobody listens to music down there. I'm not sure if the WA73 has the filters after or before the EQ bands but it would make a difference if it were. Oh yeah, I remember seeing a video on that back in the day. Renn Bass and others emulate this by creating and exacerbating harmonics from source fundamentals below a certain frequency. I guess someone could just do the same thing with other plugs by copying a track, LPF around 100hz, then adding a distortion plug, then adding a HPF afterwards. |
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Post by nick8801 on Feb 20, 2024 10:34:26 GMT -6
I do a similar thing, but I don't think I've ever turned 35hz all the way up. I don't trust my monitoring that much!
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Post by bluesholyman on Feb 20, 2024 11:10:30 GMT -6
Cranking 35hz is interesting. What are you monitoring on? I would take the track out to my car or something and make sure the bass isn't totally exploding below where you can hear in your studio. Focal Shape Twins. Yeah, I haven't tried it in a car yet, just playing with setting to get down a bass line. Those monitors tends to be a tad reserved on the low end so I might be blowing speakers and not know it yet  |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
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Post by ericn on Feb 20, 2024 11:26:40 GMT -6
That's an old Andy Wallace trick. Cranking 40hz on an EQ then using HPF after. It causes a lot of harmonics of the 40hz to pop up in the pass band while any fundamentals around 40hz are cut off since nobody listens to music down there. I'm not sure if the WA73 has the filters after or before the EQ bands but it would make a difference if it were. While not quite cranked, I have seen similar EQ suggested settings for some lower priced subs, usually it’s a correction for design and an attempt at gaining another 1/3 octave of LF before the cut off. Usually there are better ways to achieve the same thing, but on DSP and just about any EQ with limited choices it can actually I hate to say this, work. |
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Post by bluesholyman on Feb 21, 2024 12:01:43 GMT -6
I tracked a bassline last night and I am not caring for what I am hearing - too wooly I think and not sitting will in the mix. I'm gonna pull back on the 35 as a start and then maybe put the hpf at 80 if I'm still not feeling it. Its fun figuring this stuff out.
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Post by notneeson on Feb 21, 2024 13:33:57 GMT -6
I tracked a bassline last night and I am not caring for what I am hearing - too wooly I think and not sitting will in the mix. I'm gonna pull back on the 35 as a start and then maybe put the hpf at 80 if I'm still not feeling it. Its fun figuring this stuff out. Fwiw, for country bass I have had great success simply going right into a 512c with some opto barely moving the needle. REDDI is really nice here too. Anyway, my point is the Warm ought to sound more than decent set flat. |
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Post by theshea on Feb 21, 2024 14:09:23 GMT -6
yes, me too i would record with eq flat. before equing i would first try the basses and pickup positions available. also the tone knob can shape a bass guitar tone quite a bit. than strings. and only than i would lightly massage it into shape with a bit of eq. but never with such extreme settings.
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Post by wiz on Feb 21, 2024 15:09:36 GMT -6
I am always surprised by how much hi pass I have to do on DI bass
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 21, 2024 15:31:19 GMT -6
I agree with Wiz. HP is the key IMO to getting a bass to sit in any genre. I assume you're playing to a track? The song matters more to me than a preconceived magic bass setting. I've learned the hard way there is not one of those. Bass is incredibly difficult to get right. If the bass isnt right, then nothing else works. It's the foundation the house is built on. I've always struggled with bass and still do. It's the ultimate tweaker and listening voice in a recording. Anyone who says they have figured out a magic setting for recording bass on any song, I'd have to question. Start playing, listening and then turn nobs.
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Post by yotonic on Feb 21, 2024 16:01:00 GMT -6
I love direct bass sounds. This is one of my favorites.
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 21, 2024 16:12:38 GMT -6
yes, me too i would record with eq flat. before equing i would first try the basses and pickup positions available. also the tone knob can shape a bass guitar tone quite a bit. than strings. and only than i would lightly massage it into shape with a bit of eq. but never with such extreme settings. And especially for bass in a country music scenario.
Every instrument is so dependent on the musician who recorded it of course, but bass might be even more so. I used to regularly record the same bass player for several years who was very, very good - and on him, I could actually have a very decent starting point for EQ because he was so consistent every session. It made it easy to fit the drums around his playing, and to sit the electric guitars on top of his foundation.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 21, 2024 16:54:00 GMT -6
I love direct bass sounds. This is one of my favorites. This is a great example of how much tone relies on the players hands. The intro is mellow and fat, low even. Then when the rest of the ensamble comes in, it's driven and fat when the player "digs in". Sounds like two different basses but I'd bet my last penny this was all player. I'm guessing the engineer did little more than set the console eq a bit before hitting record. Then what we hear was the original take. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 21, 2024 17:19:39 GMT -6
I love direct bass sounds. This is one of my favorites. This is a great example of how much tone relies on the players hands. The intro is mellow and fat, low even. Then when the rest of the ensamble comes in, it's driven and fat when the player "digs in". Sounds like two different basses but I'd bet my last penny this was all player. I'm guessing the engineer did little more than set the console eq a bit before hitting record. Then what we hear was the original take. Neil Young was/is notorious for insisting on live takes, and often first takes. He is all about spontaneity. He would sometimes ask a player to learn a part on an instrument they weren’t that comfortable with, and they would be practicing it and trying to figure it out and finally say “ok I’m ready to give it a shot” and Neil would come on the talkback mic and say “we already got the take”. Early, inspired takes were the prize for him. I remember a quote from one of his main engineers along the lines of “with Neil, you hit record and THEN plug the mic in”. |
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Post by notneeson on Feb 21, 2024 18:30:21 GMT -6
This is a great example of how much tone relies on the players hands. The intro is mellow and fat, low even. Then when the rest of the ensamble comes in, it's driven and fat when the player "digs in". Sounds like two different basses but I'd bet my last penny this was all player. I'm guessing the engineer did little more than set the console eq a bit before hitting record. Then what we hear was the original take. Neil Young was/is notorious for insisting on live takes, and often first takes. He is all about spontaneity. He would sometimes ask a player to learn a part on an instrument they weren’t that comfortable with, and they would be practicing it and trying to figure it out and finally say “ok I’m ready to give it a shot” and Neil would come on the talkback mic and say “we already got the take”. Early, inspired takes were the prize for him. I remember a quote from one of his main engineers along the lines of “with Neil, you hit record and THEN plug the mic in”. One of my longtime friends/collaborators/former studio partner has worked for him on and off for many years. This has probably been covered elsewhere, but Jeff said they'd hit record the minute his car pulled up to the studio. Everything pretty much had to be mic'd up and ready to go at all times. |
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Post by yotonic on Feb 21, 2024 19:05:05 GMT -6
That was Tim Drummond who played bass on “Old Man”. He played a P bass with old strings right into the Quad Eight desk at Quad Studios in Nashville. I believe he got his start with James Brown.
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