|
Post by notneeson on Feb 19, 2024 9:51:45 GMT -6
I had 2 of these as well as an Echoplex back in the day and I couldn't WAIT to replace them with something quieter, more versatile, and didn't require cleaning tape heads and replacing worn out tapes. I had both a 101 and a 201. What is it with these things that everyone is willing to pay stupid money for them? I don't get it. I bought the Echoplex new in 1974 and sold it just a few years ago. It still worked but needed a new tape. It sat unused in a closet for decades. When digital delays and reverbs came out I was in heaven. Not going back, EVER! Replacing a worn out Space Echo tape is easy as hell. It's in a damn CARTRIDGE fer chissakle! None of the nonsense you need to go through with other tape echoes. And they're pretty quiet, as tape machines go.
Kids these days are SOOooo lazy!
Little did Ninworks know, but back in 1974 he made a purchase that sent him hurtling through space and time to eventually stand on John Eppstein’s sacred lawn.
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Feb 19, 2024 11:21:03 GMT -6
Had one for years.... while I will admit it sat in a mix better than a plug in, it was a PITA.... maintaining the motor can be an ordeal. Eventually right before I sold it, it was more of a modulation box than a delay.
|
|
|
Post by vvvooojjj on Feb 19, 2024 12:32:46 GMT -6
I was talking couple years ago with a local tech, who sadly passed a month ago, when picking my 501 all things Space Echoes related. He had been an official Roland tech in the 80s, so he had quite a bit experience when it comes to Space Echoes. He told me that he had seen only one or two broken Roland motors in all his years as a tech and thought the "well known motor issues" were just a myth. I think I know around ten people who own Space Echoes and none of them had had problems with the motors.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 19, 2024 14:23:44 GMT -6
Geez "Scratch" Perry. Guess I'll to learn more. I really like those Effects. Realistically, will be checking out the Plugs. Thanks guys, for the interesting Thread. Ketchup pretty soon. Chris
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Feb 19, 2024 14:47:13 GMT -6
I was talking couple years ago with a local tech, who sadly passed a month ago, when picking my 501 all things Space Echoes related. He had been an official Roland tech in the 80s, so he had quite a bit experience when it comes to Space Echoes. He told me that he had seen only one or two broken Roland motors in all his years as a tech and thought the "well known motor issues" were just a myth. I think I know around ten people who own Space Echoes and none of them had had problems with the motors. A motor can still be functional and not function well. While severe wow and flutter/pitch bending can be cool on some things, it's not necessarily something you want on everything. I'm sure problems may have been fewer and farther between in years past, but it's been almost 35 years since the last one was produced and I think over time, its only natural for anything with moving parts to start showing signs of wear and tear. Besides mine, I know of at least 3 others that friends had or were in studios I worked out of that had to have the motors serviced.
|
|
|
Post by earlevel on Feb 19, 2024 16:24:12 GMT -6
I rarely sell old gear, it just piles up. I sold my RE-101 more than 20 years ago, I think it was $300. But I don't feel bad about it, it was in my garage gather dust, and I sold it to line 6. Because I was the developer of Echo Farm and the DSP for the DL4 delay pedal. The Space Echo models were modeled after my RE-101, and Line 6 wanted to keep the gear the models were made from, I said sure and took what they offered.
The space Echo was an important part of my live keyboard sound playing in a prog band in the late '70s. We played an event called the Manifestival of Progressive Music in Los Angeles in 1979. I think it was Gilli Smith, but maybe Daevid Allen, that put out the word they needed a couple of Space Echos, and our manager said he'd stay behind and watch mine if I wanted to let them use it. I said sure, but shortly after he changed his mind and wanted to leave and the deal was off. Boy, the artist's people (maybe the artist, I don't know) were livid about it, like we ruined their gig. I always thought that was funny—play with what ya brung, folks.
|
|
|
Post by allbuttonmode on Feb 20, 2024 5:29:35 GMT -6
I had 2 of these as well as an Echoplex back in the day and I couldn't WAIT to replace them with something quieter, more versatile, and didn't require cleaning tape heads and replacing worn out tapes. I had both a 101 and a 201. What is it with these things that everyone is willing to pay stupid money for them? I don't get it. I bought the Echoplex new in 1974 and sold it just a few years ago. It still worked but needed a new tape. It sat unused in a closet for decades. When digital delays and reverbs came out I was in heaven. Not going back, EVER! Replacing a worn out Space Echo tape is easy as hell. It's in a damn CARTRIDGE fer chissakle! None of the nonsense you need to go through with other tape echoes. And they're pretty quiet, as tape machines go.
Kids these days are SOOooo lazy!
Unless I've completely missed some weird version from years ago, the Space Echo does not have a cartridge. The Echoplex and Fulltone both do, though.
But, yes. People are lazy and want convenience. I kinda like it, though. The maintenance part of it. It makes me appreciate it as a studio tool all that more. It's like listening to music on a turntable. The physical interaction plays a big part.
|
|
|
Post by ninworks on Feb 20, 2024 7:44:54 GMT -6
The tapes used to come in a cartridge but are spooled out of them on installation.
I'm not lazy and I'm 66 so not a kid either. I'll take the 6 programmable delays in my PCM70 over a Space Echo any and every day. No the delays can't be modulated but they can be panned wherever you want in the stereo field, set the levels and delay times for each one individually, EQ each one individually, and program MIDI modifications to any parameter, level, feedback, panning, or delay times, or EQ in real time using MIDI controllers. If I need modulated delays I have plugins and tape emulators that will do that and get close enough for me. Yeah, I don't want a Space Echo. Between computer fans, hard drives, and HVAC I have enough ambient noise in my studio space without adding another source. Space Echos don't make a lot of ambient noise but it's one more source when added to all the rest. They are certainly louder than the computer fans.
I would venture to say that it takes more effort to dial in the parameters of 6 delays than it does to set up a setting on a Space Echo. No, not lazy. Just particular.
|
|
|
Post by vvvooojjj on Feb 20, 2024 8:25:26 GMT -6
I was talking couple years ago with a local tech, who sadly passed a month ago, when picking my 501 all things Space Echoes related. He had been an official Roland tech in the 80s, so he had quite a bit experience when it comes to Space Echoes. He told me that he had seen only one or two broken Roland motors in all his years as a tech and thought the "well known motor issues" were just a myth. I think I know around ten people who own Space Echoes and none of them had had problems with the motors. A motor can still be functional and not function well. While severe wow and flutter/pitch bending can be cool on some things, it's not necessarily something you want on everything. I'm sure problems may have been fewer and farther between in years past, but it's been almost 35 years since the last one was produced and I think over time, its only natural for anything with moving parts to start showing signs of wear and tear. Besides mine, I know of at least 3 others that friends had or were in studios I worked out of that had to have the motors serviced. Of course the motor can have problems but I'd first replace the pinch rollers, tape tension spring, felts, tape, lubricate everything that needs to be lubricated after cleaning, check the tape tension, recap PSU etc... If those won't fix the wow and flutter then it could be the motor. But as you wrote that you've repaired Space Echoes I'm sure you know all of this. Hopefully you'll find time to fix yours soon!
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Feb 20, 2024 15:17:35 GMT -6
I'll take the 6 programmable delays in my PCM70 over a Space Echo any and every day. No the delays can't be modulated but they can be panned wherever you want in the stereo field, set the levels and delay times for each one individually, EQ each one individually, and program MIDI modifications to any parameter, level, feedback, panning, or delay times, or EQ in real time using MIDI controllers. Agreed. Workflow> "ultimate tone" any day of the week. I still like having time to touch grass every so often.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 20, 2024 15:25:04 GMT -6
Also, they’re just different sounds and that’s what makes the world go round. I was using a PCM 90 and a console a few months ago and, while it was fun, I was literally missing my plugins. (Studio owner only had a Waves account and it wasn’t even installed anyway).
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 21, 2024 1:10:22 GMT -6
Also, the case for getting a Space Echo as your tape echo is that there is a whole infrastructure of support for them. I quickly realized this when trying to fix up an Acetone (Space Echo precursor) a few years ago. Sold that and bought a super clean RE-201 a few months later. A lot of those old Hawk, Dynacord, Klemt, etc. echoes are very cool but good luck finding parts and splicing your loop. In context these days, I don't think a Space Echo is playing the same game as a PCM70. I'd never "play" or perform with a PCM70 the way you might with a Space Echo. I'm also whatever on all the Lexicon stuff, though. I had a friend/room mate who played Echoplex in a band. Like, it was his instrument (fed by the vocals).
|
|
|
Post by chipbuttie on Feb 21, 2024 7:21:12 GMT -6
I’m interested in the new Echofix EF-X3, the individual outputs for each tapehead could be a lot of fun!
|
|
|
Post by lowlou on Feb 21, 2024 7:22:56 GMT -6
I’m interested in the new Echofix EF-X3, the individual outputs for each tapehead could be a lot of fun! It's way cleaner. Not the same animal. But probably very good ?
|
|
|
Post by sentientsound on Feb 21, 2024 10:33:58 GMT -6
The EF-X3 is just a blast to use. It's pretty clean, especially using the balanced input. The instrument input goes through an Echoplex-ish input which can be overdriven. The echo sound itself isn't as colored, and the motor is very stable. My favorite way to use it is to pre-treat the input signal for extra vibe, and connect some kind of modulation source to the motor speed CV input.
I'm tempted to try the new Boss BP-1w preamp/boost pedal in front of it recently. The 201 has such a useful sound still.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 23, 2024 15:42:26 GMT -6
The EF-X3 is just a blast to use. It's pretty clean, especially using the balanced input. The instrument input goes through an Echoplex-ish input which can be overdriven. The echo sound itself isn't as colored, and the motor is very stable. My favorite way to use it is to pre-treat the input signal for extra vibe, and connect some kind of modulation source to the motor speed CV input. I'm tempted to try the new Boss BP-1w preamp/boost pedal in front of it recently. The 201 has such a useful sound still. How many playback heads?
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Feb 23, 2024 23:35:11 GMT -6
The EF-X3 is just a blast to use. It's pretty clean, especially using the balanced input. The instrument input goes through an Echoplex-ish input which can be overdriven. The echo sound itself isn't as colored, and the motor is very stable. My favorite way to use it is to pre-treat the input signal for extra vibe, and connect some kind of modulation source to the motor speed CV input. I'm tempted to try the new Boss BP-1w preamp/boost pedal in front of it recently. The 201 has such a useful sound still. How many playback heads? Looks like maybe 3?
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 24, 2024 9:49:39 GMT -6
A motor can still be functional and not function well. While severe wow and flutter/pitch bending can be cool on some things, it's not necessarily something you want on everything. I'm sure problems may have been fewer and farther between in years past, but it's been almost 35 years since the last one was produced and I think over time, its only natural for anything with moving parts to start showing signs of wear and tear. Besides mine, I know of at least 3 others that friends had or were in studios I worked out of that had to have the motors serviced. Of course the motor can have problems but I'd first replace the pinch rollers, tape tension spring, felts, tape, lubricate everything that needs to be lubricated after cleaning, check the tape tension, recap PSU etc... If those won't fix the wow and flutter then it could be the motor. But as you wrote that you've repaired Space Echoes I'm sure you know all of this. Hopefully you'll find time to fix yours soon! If people don't treat the motor well and just neglect it in some place that is less than clean any electric motoor can be made to malfunction. That isn't the motor's fault, it's the owner's. Just like driving a car until it throws a rod or bogs down from using cheap gas and oil. Mechanical devices MUST be maintained properly, Space echo motors are no exception,. although they are a good deal more durable than those used in many other tape echoes.
|
|
|
Post by sentientsound on Feb 24, 2024 17:47:03 GMT -6
The EF-X3 is just a blast to use. It's pretty clean, especially using the balanced input. The instrument input goes through an Echoplex-ish input which can be overdriven. The echo sound itself isn't as colored, and the motor is very stable. My favorite way to use it is to pre-treat the input signal for extra vibe, and connect some kind of modulation source to the motor speed CV input. I'm tempted to try the new Boss BP-1w preamp/boost pedal in front of it recently. The 201 has such a useful sound still. How many playback heads? 4 total, with discrete outputs plus a mixed output based on the traditional Space Echo head combinations.
|
|