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Post by mulmany on Jul 19, 2014 20:43:16 GMT -6
So, been mixing an album, and find that I am mixing almost 80% while listening in mono. It's been very interesting. I have even been panning while listening in mono!
Sounds crazy but there is something too it. I noticed that I was getting to final passes much quicker with less messing around.
Anyone else do this?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940 
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Post by ericn on Jul 19, 2014 21:55:30 GMT -6
First rule of Audio : Never knock what works!
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Post by mulmany on Jul 19, 2014 22:06:46 GMT -6
The funny thing was that I started off mixing in mono because I was trying to get the acoustic gtr polarity for the multiple mic set up correct. I just never switched it back. Finished up the track, thinking how fast it came together, then noticed it was in mono. Switched it to stereo for a final pass and was amazed at how everything sat and sounded.
I usually always do a mono check/pass but had never actually mixed a whole song in mono. I always have heard how important it is but man that was a eye opener.
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Post by Ward on Jul 20, 2014 0:24:13 GMT -6
HERETIC! HERETIC! BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!!
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Post by keymod on Jul 20, 2014 6:51:30 GMT -6
So what is the procedure? Only one speaker, directly in front of you? A mono switch on the console? If using a mono switch while there are still two speakers attached, thus still two point sources, how do you differentiate true mono from stereo with everything simply panned center? How does panning work when trying to do mono, especially with only one speaker? I am confused...................
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Post by mulmany on Jul 20, 2014 7:25:25 GMT -6
So what is the procedure? Only one speaker, directly in front of you? A mono switch on the console? If using a mono switch while there are still two speakers attached, thus still two point sources, how do you differentiate true mono from stereo with everything simply panned center? How does panning work when trying to do mono, especially with only one speaker? I am confused................... Well you don't hear the panning, I have just been placing elements were I have thought they should go. I have been using the mono fold down on my controller. What I realized is that it makes you focus on the problematic overlapping freq bands. Like the kick and bass, acoustic and elec gtr, everything and vocals. It really let's you hear the masking, then you can eq and level adjust very quickly. Anyone saying that it is unimportant to mix mono needs to remember that a lot of music today is played through a system using some type of bass management, folding everything below 120Hz into a mono sub. So getting the low end good in mono is still a good thing. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 20, 2014 10:10:48 GMT -6
I switch back and forth when I'm close to the end of a mix. That said, if something doesn't sound exactly right in mono but does in stereo, I always opt for the stereo mix. Hardly anyone listens in mono these days and the chances of one of my mixes being played on a K Mart PA system is nil, so I don't worry with it.
Mono can defiantly help get a lead vocal set up right though. That's the main use for me.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 20, 2014 13:05:42 GMT -6
Actually lots of streaming, television and PA is still very much mono and they can be critical to an artist's career. LCR mixing is the best way I know to achieve compatibility.
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Post by Ward on Jul 20, 2014 22:32:53 GMT -6
SNIP .... being played on a K Mart PA system is What is a 'K Mart'? LOL Definitely = absolutely positively. Defiantly = defying, rebelling, going against. Two different words, two entirely different meanings. |
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Post by mulmany on Jul 20, 2014 22:46:21 GMT -6
SNIP .... being played on a K Mart PA system is What is a 'K Mart'? LOL Definitely = absolutely positively. Defiantly = defying, rebelling, going against. Two different words, two entirely different meanings. I don't know.... could mean that mono will help whether you want it to or not! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 0:08:42 GMT -6
I always nail the kick snare vocal balance in mono at a really low level. I usually get it pretty close and then switch it back.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 21, 2014 9:57:06 GMT -6
Most of the top people constantly check mono. All broadcast processing assumes mono compatibility and FM car radios blend to mono as signal strength weakens. MP3 and AAC quality is also improved when there is good mono compatibility.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 21, 2014 10:49:28 GMT -6
Damn auto correct..
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Post by jsteiger on Jul 22, 2014 8:52:22 GMT -6
A single speaker for mono is a different thing than just hitting mono on a 2 speaker pair.
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Post by wreck on Jul 22, 2014 14:01:52 GMT -6
Actually lots of streaming, television and PA is still very much mono and they can be critical to an artist's career. LCR mixing is the best way I know to achieve compatibility. Mono streaming is super common and it kills those stereo mixes that ignore mono compatibility. I know ignoring mono is becoming more accepted, but when you get a notice that your tune is being played on x, y, z radio stations in other states or countries and you tune in online to hear it, it's a major downer when the song tanks as your guitars disappear in the chorus cuz it's a mono stream. You gotta at least check it. On the other hand, it seems like if you mix in mono and switch to stereo, you are going to think it sounds amazing in the same way louder sounds better. You might be so impressed that you think you're done when there is really more you would have done if you started in stereo. Seems like building up your mono mix elements first would be good, then add in the stereo elements and check each in mono as you go along to make sure things are playing nice would be one decent option for approaching a mix. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 22, 2014 17:13:58 GMT -6
Our goal is an optimal presentation of the music and the performance no matter where it might be encountered. Just one influential reviewer, other artist or promoter falling in love with what they hear has frequently made an artist's career.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 22, 2014 18:06:44 GMT -6
Maybe just don't pan too wide?
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 22, 2014 18:34:25 GMT -6
Maybe just don't pan too wide? The wider the better, I think panning MOST elements hard LCR is the norm since the birth of stereo, panning short doesn't really translate well, i'd use the haas effect for that, or narrow a stereo tracked source(which is not literal LCR), Pure LCR mixing sounds weird to my ears. of course JMO |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 22, 2014 21:31:00 GMT -6
I often feel it sounds weird with instruments panned far left, far right. I always try to make it sound like I'm looking at a band. Maybe it would be better with some wider panning, I'll try it next time, thanks Tony. I do keep the lead vocal and bass dead center though, and everything else goes to the side..
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 22, 2014 22:25:40 GMT -6
I often feel it sounds weird with instruments panned far left, far right. I always try to make it sound like I'm looking at a band. Maybe it would be better with some wider panning, I'll try it next time, thanks Tony. I do keep the lead vocal and bass dead center though, and everything else goes to the side.. Try it bro, if you listen to your favs, you'll notice that 90% of the elements are indeed panned hard left/center/hard right. The Haas effect is kinda unknown by most, but it's certainly the best way to mid pan to my ears. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 23, 2014 9:27:20 GMT -6
I only wish I'd known about sticking to RCL for compatibility years ago!
We always had pan pots on everything at Motown but lots of older consoles had to be assigned to pan pots and the extra circuitry caused audible degradation over just selecting one or both busses using the buttons. People who started out with these consoles noticed a loss of mono/stereo compatibility when they eventually moved to mix busses with all pan pots. In many cases one also needed to set the center of each by running tones and marking it with a grease pencil because exact centering could make a big difference in disk mastering.
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Post by Ward on Jul 23, 2014 11:28:55 GMT -6
Do we HAVE to get back to doing separate mono mixes, all over again? God above, the breadth of stereo imagery has come so far and is finally at the point where every element can 'follow you around the room'... and now we have to deal with video and web guys destroying our audio all over again. What is this, the 80s?
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 23, 2014 12:00:21 GMT -6
Just be glad you aren't dealing with radio stations that had one stereo speaker in the music director's office and the other in the lobby!
The solution turned out to be production decisions made in stereo rather than mono and then bass kick/snare/solos/lead vocal in the middle with the rest panned hard to the sides. As a result the center increases in volume a bit in mono but it isn't really a musical problem. Musicality always trumps sound quality in the real world. If you want stereo, record in real stereo with two mikes panned hard left and right. Pan pots are what create the translation problems.
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