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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 4, 2024 22:44:37 GMT -6
People do LOVE engaging music as a foreground experience where they aren't doing anything else. They just don't get that experience very often today. Exactly! When I was 16 (44 years ago) music was the center of our youth culture. We gathered at each others houses around the record player and listened endlessly to the bands we loved and followed. Forward 44 years and I watch what music means to my 18 and 21 year old son's and it's generally background noise whilst they are playing video games, watching Youtube tomfoolery and on socail media. It's a very obvious shift in importance and focus to youth culture, they will then take that attitude to music through to their adult lives. My hero's were super star musicians from the bands I loved. Their hero's are Youtubers, social media "influencers" and Youtube comedians/pranksters. I don't want to "like" this, because I actually hate it -- but it's true all too often. Music is no longer the center of youth culture.
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Post by paulcheeba on Feb 5, 2024 0:59:40 GMT -6
With 70% of marketing being back catalog it’s hardly surprising there is no new good music on a major scale.
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 5, 2024 6:38:29 GMT -6
I bought at least one album and then CD a week from around 5th Grade until I was in my mid to late 30s. Heck, my grandmother bought me Alice Cooper’s “Love it to Death” at the mall after we went out to eat. People treat recorded music as an entitlement now and it’s hard not to when you can have access to basically everything that’s ever been recorded for less than ten dollars a month or even for free if you’ll listen to ads. Sure there was also free radio but even it hyping a new release was better than the current situation. I would buy things I heard on the radio so I could play it at home.
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 5, 2024 7:00:14 GMT -6
Hmmm. A lot of thoughts percolating. This will be a mess, so apologies ahead of time. I remember the head of FX, John Landgraf, talking about how 20% of TV consumption is active, meaning something the user seeks out or picks a program specifically, and 80% is passive AKA watching "whatever's on." As a 90s kid that was very excited about the internet's potential, the aggregation and monopolization that has occurred has made it apparent to me that we're at the mercy of a faceless mass choosing convenience above significance. Sometimes that includes any of us. I know I absolutely appreciate shopping via Amazon vs. pissing away a few hours at the grocery store or Home Depot. To me, for meaningless things, that's progress. And I guess I accept that people who don't obsess over music view it that way too. Ironically, Jeff Bezos recently said efficiency and invention are at odds with each other. And he's dead on. The mainstream is just not going to take risks, they want certainty. And they have metrics to know where to put their money. Young, ITB-made, plastic stuff that is simple enough for a global audience to grasp. Go to Southeast Asia and you're gonna hear that two note Ed Sheeran song a million times. Even a singer like Adele could probably make more interesting records than she does, but her balladeering is starkly unadorned because it needs to be as un-specific as possible in presenting what is usually a timeless sentiment. These are business decisions. I'd take issue with the notion that there are virtually no new classic albums, but my guess is that, in aggregate, this place is not inclined towards the genres where I think those classics have been made. Moreover, making music is a beautiful thing. But making money on music has always been a tall order. And frankly, I'll probably catch some heat for this, but I love seeing AI take out the middling graphic designers / artists in the visual realm and I don't mind that it's coming for that tier of musician as well. It's not that I don't think they shouldn't make art. Creation is one of the greatest, most freeing things we do. It's just that getting paid requires you to offer something competitive and the middle is a lot of noise for both the audience and the ones operating at a higher level. So if you want a better paycheck, get better at what you do - world class if you can. Pino Palladino will always work. Chris Dave will always work. Blake Mills, Flying Lotus, Greg Kurstin, etc. They earned that. None of them are accidents. And if there are unknown guys on their level, they're likely missing a big piece of the puzzle somewhere, whether it's the energy to network/share, playing on sub-optimal records, bad health or whatever. In this time, the best thing you can do is be authentic to yourself and uncompromising in your vision - and execute it all as well as you can. If you win, whatever that means, you did it on your terms. If not, you knew the odds were crazy anyway. Taylor Swift's billion dollar tour should've been 20 $50 million tours in a healthier environment. Or maybe 20 $150 million tours. Who knows. But talking about Taylor Swift is like discussing McDonald's when opening your nice restaurant. The intent is different from the get-go - I don't know why people let it consume them so much. It's not for you. These days you want to serve your fans well and make it seem like they matter to you. And the best result is to make those faceless masses feel like they're missing something, that some secret in your work is not being revealed to them. Leverage tribalism for your own benefit. Your fans are your tribe, do right by them and execute at higher and higher levels for yourself and them. I sort of like that the next Led Zeppelin has to put more effort into maintaining a connection with their fans as opposed to pissing away time in the countryside mansion. Personally, I find it more honorable and less transactional. There are people who are millionaires simply because they have a beautiful face, nice curves, etc. and shake their ass on IG all the way to a 2.5M dollar, Toll Brothers cookie cutter house. I'm sorry but you can cry all you want but that's the lizard brain taking over and it's always been that way. We are just getting a front row seat to the mechanics of that process now across a number of domains, including news, sports, food, etc. How many grown 40+ men are subsidizing the lifestyles of young formerly desperate women everywhere? The simp economy is massive, even bigger than my cynical mind could ever imagine. And the same thing happens with hooky brainless pop. It's like being mad that an owl eats a mouse when we are confronted with the reality of passivity and addiction. All I ultimately know is that, if you care about your work mattering, time has the last laugh. That is what you know from Joy Division, Talk Talk's last two records, Nick Drake, Suzanne Cianni, Thelonious Monk, J-Dilla, etc. Great, distinctive work stands up. If someone else could do what you do, don't bother. I personally don't have a problem with that.
My biggest issue with the current environment is the lack of focus and discipline from everyone. People are addicted to everything, including infotainment and the treadmill of "self-improvement." And I do lament that artists have to put in legwork on things they cannot afford to hire for and the lack of focus on their craft is a distraction that diminishes their art.
This ^ I admire Sting as an artist. It occurred to me, he's from a generation where you do what you do and other people do what you can't. He can play bass, sing and write songs. That's "all" he can do .... each one to a world class standard. I bet he wouldn't have a clue how a project studio goes together and wouldn't give a hoot anyway as there's 1,000,000 people who can that but only Sting can do what Sting does. You get amazing at your craft not by being a jack of all trades but by people a mastering of YOUR trade. Ironic. People admire my ability to play ALL the instruments and sing, write, arrange, record, edit, Master, promote (maintain and operate a complex studio) Personally, I think it was the seeds of my failure as an artist!
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 5, 2024 19:15:20 GMT -6
Back then, even the shittiest label had to invest money back into music. Now streaming turns a big part of the profits to computer companies that don't give a rat's arse about musicicans. So what happenes if you bleed and bleed? Have a guess. I try to explain that to people that tell me streaming is soo good. Well, watch the path you're following, it might not lead to a place you wanted to be. What a blessing we get to pay Spotify et al 30 cents of every dollar made for using my music without my consent.
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Post by copperx on Feb 6, 2024 0:52:06 GMT -6
What a blessing we get to pay Spotify et al 30 cents of every dollar made for using my music without my consent.
Imagine being an engineer and asking for 30 royalty points with a straight face. Lol.
The tech bros did it with no shame.
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Post by linas on Feb 6, 2024 5:44:49 GMT -6
Slavery OS just got an update. It's fine, we will survive. Music may not
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Post by chessparov on Feb 6, 2024 14:48:02 GMT -6
What a blessing we get to pay Spotify et al 30 cents of every dollar made for using my music without my consent.
Imagine being an engineer and asking for 30 royalty points with a straight face. Lol.
The tech bros did it with no shame.
Even the more recent Tech SOB's. (Sons of those Brothers ) Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2024 9:12:35 GMT -6
At least musicians will go back to making music for the right reasons - cause they love it. The people (musicians, engineers, producers) chasing the charts / hits / success etc are doomed. This is a good thing IMO Even though I have worked with many successful artists, most of my work is done with people who love to make music, they don't expect to make a living from it. The ones that do often teach music as a job - others have a completely unrelated job for income. They tour, do great gigs locally and internationally, record great music, make some merch, and have enough fans to cover expenses, and have a great time making albums and performing, and if all goes well, have some cash left over to inject into the next album. Success is viewed through a realistic lens. "Realistic" lens?
So you say not being able to support yourself with your art is a GOOD thing?
Speaking as a broke musician, I don't think so. Not at all.
Nearly all the great music of the last sentury was probuced courtesy of the music industry. It would not have happened otherwise. The Beatles would have spent their carrers in the Cavern Club. the lesser artists would never have seen the light of day.
And if you have to work some menial day job to pay your bills and to eat you're not going to have much, if any time to work on your music - it doesn't just happen automatically, you know.
Success IS viewed through a realistic lens, but you lens is so far out of focus as to be useless.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2024 9:15:58 GMT -6
Exactly! When I was 16 (44 years ago) music was the center of our youth culture. We gathered at each others houses around the record player and listened endlessly to the bands we loved and followed. Forward 44 years and I watch what music means to my 18 and 21 year old son's and it's generally background noise whilst they are playing video games, watching Youtube tomfoolery and on socail media. It's a very obvious shift in importance and focus to youth culture, they will then take that attitude to music through to their adult lives. My hero's were super star musicians from the bands I loved. Their hero's are Youtubers, social media "influencers" and Youtube comedians/pranksters. I don't want to "like" this, because I actually hate it -- but it's true all too often. Music is no longer the center of youth culture. You're missing the point. The point is that there is no longer much new music that is saleable, without financial backing.
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Post by skav on Feb 7, 2024 9:18:35 GMT -6
There is great art at top of the charts, but at the same time there is garbage pushed as cultural warfare.
Especially music that push degenerate values on the youth is to be despised and avoided.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2024 9:21:11 GMT -6
Back then, even the shittiest label had to invest money back into music. Now streaming turns a big part of the profits to computer companies that don't give a rat's arse about musicicans. So what happenes if you bleed and bleed? Have a guess. I try to explain that to people that tell me streaming is soo good. Well, watch the path you're following, it might not lead to a place you wanted to be. What a blessing we get to pay Spotify et al 30 cents of every dollar made for using my music without my consent. And Spotify does f* all to promote music for their 30 cents. That's not the music industry. That's Big Tech raping the corpse of music.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2024 9:34:01 GMT -6
People do LOVE engaging music as a foreground experience where they aren't doing anything else. They just don't get that experience very often today. Exactly! When I was 16 (44 years ago) music was the center of our youth culture. We gathered at each others houses around the record player and listened endlessly to the bands we loved and followed. Forward 44 years and I watch what music means to my 18 and 21 year old son's and it's generally background noise whilst they are playing video games, watching Youtube tomfoolery and on socail media. It's a very obvious shift in importance and focus to youth culture, they will then take that attitude to music through to their adult lives. My hero's were super star musicians from the bands I loved. Their hero's are Youtubers, social media "influencers" and Youtube comedians/pranksters. All of whom are pretty useless and often destructive. There is no real art there. Our culture is being activrely destroyed for the benefit of the tech business.
This could probably be corrected through careful legislation, but the odds of that happening are about nil
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Post by bossanova on Feb 7, 2024 10:30:16 GMT -6
I think this has been echoed elsewhere here, but a recent book on the '60s music boom in London talked about how much of it was possible because so many musicians could make a living just playing a handful of gigs a week.
Right now, I don't know anyone personally in the Austin scene who's making a living from playing live in town. Some supplemental income, sure, but that's it.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2024 10:47:33 GMT -6
Oh OK. I get the context now. How much do you guys think of the "Curator Role" approach now? (so much music out there now vs. Past) Like hosting shows for people ACTUALLY into learning about Genre(s)/History/Stories/etc? Chris Thaty wound be aqn interesting plan but for one problem - The vast bulk of the audience is not really interested in "Curator Shows" unless the subject is already hugely famous. People aren't much interested in learning about things the don't already have some interest in.
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Post by drbill on Feb 7, 2024 11:27:32 GMT -6
The best way to make incredible music for society is a moderate gatekeeper (that keeps out just random wannabe's) and the ability for the "average" talented musician to make an actual living through hard work and perseverance. This has become exceedingly rare. I do make a living off of music, but I have chosen an off-beat path, and am glad that I am essentially winding down - not ramping up. Those who are starting off now essentially have about as much chance of making music their "day gig" as winning the lottery. Working a day job while trying to kick start a musical career and maybe having a family is futile, and backbreaking. Not a good path to exposing talent or great music.
Good luck all!!
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Post by deaconblues on Feb 7, 2024 11:49:04 GMT -6
"Especially music that push degenerate values on the youth is to be despised and avoided."
Story time: When my parents were children, their families burned their record collections in front of them. The reason given: they believed these songs were pushing degeneracy onto the youth. 25 years later when my wife was a child, her mother threw out all of her records and tapes for the same reason. It wasn't the Beatles or the Stones this time, but instead the nightmarishly degenerate INXS and The Cars and Janet Jackson. The principal at my junior high inadvertently introduced me to Slayer when he would play their records in our chapel to point out the evil lyrics and 'demonic frequencies.' He'd slide the Beatles and Zeppelin records into the mix to point out how long this spiritual warfare had been going on. Music & art didn't change; people didn't change. It's always like this.
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 7, 2024 12:02:58 GMT -6
I think this has been echoed elsewhere here, but a recent book on the '60s music boom in London talked about how much of it was possible because so many musicians could make a living just playing a handful of gigs a week. Right now, I don't know anyone personally in the Austin scene who's making a living from playing live in town. Some supplemental income, sure, but that's it. Not only that. They don't want musicians to play in London. It costs £25 toll to drive into London centre - probably another £10-£15 for parking IF you can find a space. The maximum speed is 20mph so it takes ages to get anywhere and there's red lines everywhere so loading and unloading gear is no longer viable for the few venues that are left. Talk about the destruction of art and culture - London has change from being the centre of a great musical vibe to a musical ghost town for up and coming artists. Now they're all on Youtube frantically waving at everyone hoping you'll subscribe to their channel instead of Mr Beast (and no I'm not referring to Rick Beato) Tough to get a kid to listen to your stereo master piece in the face of some millionaire prat driving a train of a cliff!!!!
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Post by nick8801 on Feb 7, 2024 12:17:54 GMT -6
Same thing with NYC. Even Brooklyn...I dunno. There's always something to complain about. I get frustrated often, but that's not gonna help me in any way. Just gotta keep making stuff that makes me and the people I work with feel good. Do I wish I could quit my day job and just produce music all day. Hell yes...but, I teach music production and it's fun to try and inspire another generation to make actual music. As I was reading all these posts during my lunch, I'm looking at a group of students who come to my room every day to jam and talk and just hang out around music. Kids like that still exist. The world may be different, but I don't think people change all that much.
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Post by bossanova on Feb 7, 2024 12:41:08 GMT -6
"Especially music that push degenerate values on the youth is to be despised and avoided." Story time: When my parents were children, their families burned their record collections in front of them. The reason given: they believed these songs were pushing degeneracy onto the youth. 25 years later when my wife was a child, her mother threw out all of her records and tapes for the same reason. It wasn't the Beatles or the Stones this time, but instead the nightmarishly degenerate INXS and The Cars and Janet Jackson. The principal at my junior high inadvertently introduced me to Slayer when he would play their records in our chapel to point out the evil lyrics and 'demonic frequencies.' He'd slide the Beatles and Zeppelin records into the mix to point out how long this spiritual warfare had been going on. Music & art didn't change; people didn't change. It's always like this. I'm with you man. One generations "degenerate values" are something that looks absolutely silly in retrospect to the ones that come after. Elvis was corrupting the youth and Beatles records were burned. I'm especially happy and proud to know that Queer people probably have the most love and acceptance in the United States that they've ever had in recorded history, and a lot of that is being driven by the younger generation.
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Post by hadaja on Feb 7, 2024 15:06:51 GMT -6
Just a side thought are the "audio Schools" still pumping out interested audio enthusiasts? OR has that sort of died off? I think things will get a little scary when we no longer have people interested in being in this music market. Or will it start to make it profitable - doable - again?
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Post by drbill on Feb 7, 2024 15:18:56 GMT -6
Music / live music seems to be thriving in my town. Lots of venues, lots of bands. Not very "high level" or well paying or virtuoso, but the interest is still there.
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Post by enlav on Feb 7, 2024 15:29:42 GMT -6
Just a side thought are the "audio Schools" still pumping out interested audio enthusiasts? OR has that sort of died off? I think things will get a little scary when we no longer have people interested in being in this music market. Or will it start to make it profitable - doable - again? The programs I'm aware of have shifted to focus on more than just audio for the sake of audio. More emphasis in sound for picture and post production. This is hardly a recent development though. We're talking decades in the making. Would love to hear Mr. Grotto chip in here, as I'm speaking for predominately smaller markets that may have had to adapt far sooner.
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Post by skav on Feb 7, 2024 17:13:08 GMT -6
"Especially music that push degenerate values on the youth is to be despised and avoided." Story time: When my parents were children, their families burned their record collections in front of them. The reason given: they believed these songs were pushing degeneracy onto the youth. 25 years later when my wife was a child, her mother threw out all of her records and tapes for the same reason. It wasn't the Beatles or the Stones this time, but instead the nightmarishly degenerate INXS and The Cars and Janet Jackson. The principal at my junior high inadvertently introduced me to Slayer when he would play their records in our chapel to point out the evil lyrics and 'demonic frequencies.' He'd slide the Beatles and Zeppelin records into the mix to point out how long this spiritual warfare had been going on. Music & art didn't change; people didn't change. It's always like this. When in the wests past have there been pushed art that glorify destructive behavior such as sleeping around, prostitution, drug doing and drug dealing, criminality in general, gangsterism, violence etc? It's never been as bad as now and it's true, some people had foresight. The Christian morals had to be destroyed to pave way for whathas been happpening now, for a couple of decades. It is true that culture have been used to create tension between parents and offspring. Especially these last hundred years. It is not a good thing, i less your wish aand intention is cultural and a peoples destruction.
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Post by frans on Feb 8, 2024 3:31:33 GMT -6
There's a difference between one generation not understanding the expressions of the new generation ... and the pushing/promotion of destructive behaviour to control society. Some people are even so removed from reality that they "think" that each piece of music has equal chances of getting successful in the biz. And "the biz" doesn't even exist in a vacuum.
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