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Post by doubledog on Jan 25, 2024 11:47:20 GMT -6
Looking for some opinions - I know there are a few out there.  When I built the studio, I made a few compromises (thinking that if i ever sold my home, not everyone would want a dark windowless recording studio). One was adding a couple windows (which are pretty sufficiently blocked up), and the other was more of a mistake... the entrance door. Had I planned better (and had more $ to throw at it) I would have lengthened the building and added a couple storage/iso rooms and a 2nd door (i.e. airlock) but I didn't. So the door is a nice solid wood door, but not completely solid as I thought. It has "panels" in it that are carved, but also seem to be separate pieces of wood, and where it's carved, the door is thinner . So at some point I added an outdoor "storm door" that adds another layer. It helped a little but I still feel like the door is a weak spot. Ok, so you got that story and I've been thinking of ways to make it better... 1. replace the door with a steel door that is thicker and better insulated. This is probably not worth it (since I don't really get any complaints from neighbors - it's more about sound leaking in) and it would be expensive and time consuming (ripping out the door, refinishing the new door and around it, etc.). and it might not help that much anyway. 2. or add some MLV on the inside of the door. I think it's a standard 32" wide door. I did find some 12 squares of adhesive-backed ML on Amazon. Reasonably priced and would be easy to apply. I could also use the screws or construction adhesive but that seems more "permanent" and it is a nice looking door (but I suppose I should not care...). I've also seen lots of "deadening" products for automotive use. Again adhesive backed, so would be easy to apply and some of it doesn't look awful (you can get it in black). Anyone ever try it? I'm sure it's not as good as MLV but maybe helps some? I've also seen some ridged (or ribbed?) 12x12 felt (adhesive backed) squares that are probably more for taming reflections (and that might not be a bad thing) but again easy to add some. might not accomplish much though. I know any of these ideas are hacks and not the best way to fix it, but like I said, I don't get complaints and I'm looking to do a little improvement for cheap. picture of the door below (and chose one with some gear in it just for fun - this was a setup from covid lockdown times so the drums are usually opposite from these, facing the door - I had 2 kits setup during that time...) ![]()  |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 25, 2024 13:57:00 GMT -6
I think the first question is what is the exact problem you’re trying to solve? You mentioned it’s to stop sound from leaking in? How bad is the bleed currently and what are hoping to achieve isolation wise?
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Post by dok on Jan 25, 2024 19:22:50 GMT -6
#1 is going to be the best option. And you might be surprised at how much better it can be if you really go ham on the seals, especially at the threshold.
Looking at your photo it seems like most of your leakage is likely from the bottom, unless you've got some sort of heavy duty threshold/backstop on the other side.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 25, 2024 22:58:33 GMT -6
You could get a steel door and have the problem be the same if not worse. Most general steel doors you’d get come with a metal buck jam, and they don’t seal very well.
The problem generally isn’t the door, it’s sealing the door to the stops/jamb. On top of that, you’re battling the threshold and the space between the door jam and the frame.
Let’s say you’re going to keep the door you have. First thing I’d do is run a knife along the door jamb and your interior trim. Do the same from the trim to the wall to cut any caulking that may have been applied, and then pop that trim off. Be gentle and use flat bars so as to not ruin the trim. Pull out the fiberglass insulation that’s in there, get a can of non expanding foam insulation from your home center and fill that cavity. Now replace that trim after the foam dries.
Next I’d see how tightly the door closes. On most doors, If you open the door and look down where the bottom of the door seals against the threshold, you’ll see some screws. Probably 4 or 5 screws on a 32” door. If your door opens and closes without rubbing against that threshold, take a screwdriver and back out those screws a half turn at a time. Then close the door and open the door until you feel a sturdy rub on that seal. That will tighten up the bottom of that door.
Now move on to the top and sides. When you open your door, there are vinyl covered foam seals that are wedged into rabbited slots in the door jamb. These need to be tight against both the door and the jambs when the door is closed. The easiest way to do this is to look into the metal plate that your door knob goes into. It’s called the strike plate. If you look inside that plate there is a small tab and a slot that you can place a flat head screwdriver tip. Bend that little tab so that when your door knob actuates into the strike plate, it will pull the door further into the seals.
You’re going to have to push your door harder to get it to close, but this is all for getting a better seal. If your strike place doesn’t have that tab on it (it most likely does) you can unscrew it , fill the screw holes, drill new holes and move the strike plate closer to door stop to make the seal tighter.
You can also have a buddy stand outside with a leaf blower blowing air against all areas of the door. If you feel air getting in, sound is getting in there too.
Hopefully a portion of that made some sort of sense.
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Post by svart on Jan 26, 2024 7:34:05 GMT -6
BIGGEST thing to do is to make sure the door is air tight. Seals around all edges, nice and tight. Adding mass to the door will help a lot too. Adding the car mastic sheets will help keep the door from passing audio through vibration, but ANY tiny little gap around the door will let an incredible amount of sound through.
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Post by doubledog on Jan 26, 2024 8:20:00 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I do feel like the door is sealed fairly well, and tight (about as good as it can be), although I will check the bottom threshold since it's been several years (with Texas's ever changing weather of floods to drought).
I know with steel doors, the seals around the top and sides are often magnetic, so they stick pretty good to the door - the wood door does require it push tighter to seal it well. So one thought I had was to put the MLV or the car deadening mat or whatever so that it slightly overlaps the door opening. Of course this likely will be more challenging on the hinge side since it would need to move so it can open. But I believe the weakest part of the door is the thinness of the "panels" in the door, which is why I proposed covering the inner side of the door with something (and maybe even doubling up in those carved spots - sort of filling it in). I also have to be careful about adding too much weight and stressing the hinges (which might put the door off-kilter). And of course I'm trying to do it as inexpensively as possible (or it won't get done at all). btw, I've been contemplating this for around 10 years and still haven't done it lol. But seeing this car deadening mat on Amazon got me thinking again.
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Post by svart on Jan 26, 2024 9:10:47 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I do feel like the door is sealed fairly well, and tight (about as good as it can be), although I will check the bottom threshold since it's been several years (with Texas's ever changing weather of floods to drought). I know with steel doors, the seals around the top and sides are often magnetic, so they stick pretty good to the door - the wood door does require it push tighter to seal it well. So one thought I had was to put the MLV or the car deadening mat or whatever so that it slightly overlaps the door opening. Of course this likely will be more challenging on the hinge side since it would need to move so it can open. But I believe the weakest part of the door is the thinness of the "panels" in the door, which is why I proposed covering the inner side of the door with something (and maybe even doubling up in those carved spots - sort of filling it in). I also have to be careful about adding too much weight and stressing the hinges (which might put the door off-kilter). And of course I'm trying to do it as inexpensively as possible (or it won't get done at all). btw, I've been contemplating this for around 10 years and still haven't done it lol. But seeing this car deadening mat on Amazon got me thinking again. I added a small strip of wood along the bottom of one of my doors to add another seal along the bottom, similar to how the top and sides are sealed. Yeah it adds a "bump" you have to step over but it reduced the sound coming through that doorway by maybe 30 dB overall. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 26, 2024 11:22:32 GMT -6
You can remove one on the screws on each hinge and replace it with a 3 1/2” deck screw in order to secure the actual hinge to the rough opening framing to secure it better if you add mass to the door. If you do this make sure to replace the screw that is closest to the middle of the door frame to make sure you’re getting the 2x4 or 2x6 instead of just screwing it into your sheetrock edge.
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Post by doubledog on Jan 26, 2024 14:51:20 GMT -6
checked the bottom of the door and it looks pretty tight still. seals are still pretty tight all around (I worked on it when I first built it and it still looks good). I will still contemplate adding something to the door...
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Post by doubledog on Jan 30, 2024 15:49:48 GMT -6
figured I would complete this... the "before" picture is posted earlier and this is the "after". I ended up using these "soundproof panels" (100% joking about that...): www.amazon.com/dp/B08PVTC9G4but no, really I did use these. They are adhesive backed and easy to install. They smell a little but not too bad and seems to dissipate quickly. Only 0.4" thick. They were pretty easy to cut, but surprisingly tough on knife blades. They are essentially really thick, rigid polyester "felt". I pushed it up really close to the edges of the door so that it makes the seal tighter - really kind of a double seal now. The door is in a 6" jam (since the building is 2x6 studs) so it's inset a bit and I couldn't really overlap the seal, but pushing it up tight I can see/hear/feel the difference when it closes now. It also adds a little bit of thickness and/or mass to the door without being too heavy. The door also has less of a resonance (which I didn't really realize it had until this was all stuck on it and now it's dead sounding). Lastly, it will absorb some high/mid frequencies vs. reflecting off the door and all of these are desirable. So I'm pretty happy with how it worked out (I did end up buying 2 of these 18 packs since one would not fully cover the 36" door). Overall cost was under $70. I did not measure sound leakage before or after, so I have no objective data (sorry).  |
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Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2024 21:59:56 GMT -6
Traditional construction type door "seals" like Q-Lon are junk. You need a press fit, TIGHT airtight seal that's built for acoustic treatment. I wish I knew the type, and I'd let you know, but I had one specially ordered. They are not cheap, but they do work well. Any acoustician could let you know the brand, but that's not me so.... New Jamb, new door, new threshold, new jamb seal. Traditional construction will not come anywhere close to dealing with the issues that will be solved if you do it right. Once the door is hung STRAIGHT, you mount the extruded aluminum ADJUSTABLE door jamb "seal" mentioned above (See link below for a similar product to what I used. It's not exactly the same, but similar). And then you close the door against the threshold, and mount the jamb seal. Then you use the adjustable screws on the jamb seal to move the sealing edge towards the door. Once you get it right, the door will take pressure to close. That's what you want. These have dense sealing foam on them, and they WILL seal 100% all around the door. Over the years, as the density starts to collapse a bit, you can "tighten" the jamb seal to once again get a 100% seal. But first, before this you need a few more things. Actually you need these first before attacking the jamb seal : 1. You need to seal around the wall that surrounds the jamb, and the framing that the jamb is screwing into. If you can pull back the drywall to fill either side of the frame and above, even better. This is where a lot of sound leaks out - even though it looks like a solid wall - it isn't. you should fill these areas with the best and heaviest damped sound deadening material you can find. Then feel free to also use expanding foam to fill in every crack. If you don't do this, you can mount a 6" thick high density door, and the sound will just leak out all around it. SEAL THE WALL / JAMB first!!! 2. Get an exterior (thicker) solid core SLAB door. These are cheap compared to what you have. The slab door will have much more density than the door you currently have. Secondly, you need it mounted STRAIGHT. Easier said than done. Pay to have an expert do it. Explain your issues to the installer. Have them cut the door's bottom so that it has MINIMAL clearance over the threshold. Have it plumb and 100'% straight and parallel. 3. Next, you need a tapered high quality threshold that you seal underneath. It should have high density HD foam that seals 100% up against the door. If the threshold is not perfectly parallel, or the door is not cut and mounted straight - you're hosed. The tolerances should be within 1/16th of an inch all around the door. This is not "NORMAL" door hanging. In addition, you can also get thresholds that "drop" down into the floor if you REALLY want to do it right and spend $$$. I didn't go that far. 4. After you have 1-3 perfect, then you go to the adjustable door jamb seal (which is adjustable on both sides and top) and drive it into the door so that it truly seals. There are about 20 screws that push it into the door surface. Hopefully I've elaborated enough that you can figure it out. If I can find one I'll link it. IMPORTANT : ALL tolerances should be spot on. Any crack in the armor will let sound out / in. Good luck. PS : I don't think this is the exact thing I used, but it's similar. You would need 3 pieces, L side, R side and Top - plus the threshold. www.tmhardware.com/Door-Gasket-Aluminum-with-Choice-of-Adjustable-Seals-Heavy-Duty.html |
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Post by doubledog on Feb 2, 2024 9:16:36 GMT -6
The door is hung properly. And it was sealed when built. Like I said earlier, it's a standalone building and far enough away from anyone that I don't get complaints (I know that is difficult for anyone else to visualize since you likely haven't been here). I'm happy with the changes I made and it really is good enough for what was needed in this situation. And it now seals tighter than it ever has.
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Post by Quint on Feb 2, 2024 15:26:19 GMT -6
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but drop seals exist for these specific purposes. They are made to seal up your door against the floor, without requiring any sort of large threshold at the bottom of the door, which creates an obvious trip hazard. Sealing against the floor is always the hardest part of sealing a door. www.tmhardware.com/Automatic-Door-Bottoms/ |
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