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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 25, 2024 12:15:49 GMT -6
Oh meant to mention...holy crap vocals are compressed to high hell these days. It's very Nickleback...not really my taste, but it certainly serves the song. Just looked up the credits....It was produced by the same guy (Joey Moi) who has done, wait for it...Nickleback! good ear John. Just a thought....could we invite producers/engineers here for a Q/A session? Could be anyone really. Like we are talking about this guy's production. Why not get him here and ask him? Could be fun and informative. I mean, it's fun to speculate, but I'd love to hear from the source! Might save that for a pod or video... |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 25, 2024 12:24:28 GMT -6
Just looked up the credits....It was produced by the same guy (Joey Moi) who has done, wait for it...Nickleback! good ear John. Just a thought....could we invite producers/engineers here for a Q/A session? Could be anyone really. Like we are talking about this guy's production. Why not get him here and ask him? Could be fun and informative. I mean, it's fun to speculate, but I'd love to hear from the source! Yeah, I love these sort of Q&As. Tips and context for decisions that were made. And it would give @tomegatherion a chance to explain to the award winning multi platinum selling producer why this mix is godawful, slammed to crap, and wrong  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2024 12:36:32 GMT -6
Just looked up the credits....It was produced by the same guy (Joey Moi) who has done, wait for it...Nickleback! good ear John. Just a thought....could we invite producers/engineers here for a Q/A session? Could be anyone really. Like we are talking about this guy's production. Why not get him here and ask him? Could be fun and informative. I mean, it's fun to speculate, but I'd love to hear from the source! Yeah, I love these sort of Q&As. Tips and context for decisions that were made. And it would give @tomegatherion a chance to explain to the award winning multi platinum selling producer why this mix is godawful, slammed to crap, and wrong If he can explain why the choruses are quieter or less intelligible than the verses, I would want to know. Rick Rubin was never able to explain the clipping in his productions while Scheps thinks the flat-lined peaks in loud productions aid translation by getting phase shifted by dc filters and crossovers to no longer be flat-lined when the consumer plays them back. That's a bit weird but it is an explanation. Commercial success != quality or error free. There are a ton of distortions, errors, or poor choices made in commercial recordings. I listened to a classic 1990 major label thrash record the other day on monitors and it was annoying because the guitars weren't low passed to excise the fizz enough. |
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 25, 2024 13:23:36 GMT -6
Just looked up the credits....It was produced by the same guy (Joey Moi) who has done, wait for it...Nickleback! good ear John. Just a thought....could we invite producers/engineers here for a Q/A session? Could be anyone really. Like we are talking about this guy's production. Why not get him here and ask him? Could be fun and informative. I mean, it's fun to speculate, but I'd love to hear from the source! Yeah, I love these sort of Q&As. Tips and context for decisions that were made. And it would give @tomegatherion a chance to explain to the award winning multi platinum selling producer why this mix is godawful, slammed to crap, and wrong That's hilarious and accurate! |
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Post by seawell on Jan 25, 2024 13:32:55 GMT -6
I think it’s important to keep in mind that as mixers, the final product isn’t always what we wanted. More compression on the vocal could’ve been at the request of the artist or the label to match something else that was a hit. As far as the chorus getting a bit squashed, I wouldn’t want to be blamed for what some mastering engineers ended up doing to songs I mixed 😤
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Post by noob on Jan 25, 2024 13:38:38 GMT -6
75 Million views, 17,000+ comments on Youtube, and I can guarentee you not one of those people is talking about the compression being wrong. Great song. Personally, not how I mix, but it's a specific style and I respect it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 25, 2024 14:14:32 GMT -6
I think it’s important to keep in mind that as mixers, the final product isn’t always what we wanted. More compression on the vocal could’ve been at the request of the artist or the label to match something else that was a hit. As far as the chorus getting a bit squashed, I wouldn’t want to be blamed for what some mastering engineers ended up doing to songs I mixed 😤 No doubt it's the label... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2024 14:51:00 GMT -6
I think it’s important to keep in mind that as mixers, the final product isn’t always what we wanted. More compression on the vocal could’ve been at the request of the artist or the label to match something else that was a hit. As far as the chorus getting a bit squashed, I wouldn’t want to be blamed for what some mastering engineers ended up doing to songs I mixed 😤 You get crazy revisions or they want it totally smashed in mastering. The more naive (or blowharded keep up with the jonese conformist) the client, the crazier the request. Or the split records in punk and metal always have crazy mastering. A side and B side are never even close. Sometimes the other side was mastered by somebody else (or the artist) and you have to butcher your side like that side just to make it match.
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Post by christopher on Jan 25, 2024 18:26:10 GMT -6
Something about the voice reminds me of Superunknown, and I read over a decade ago some rumor that it was vintage 87> LA2A smashed to oblivion, like needle pinning out type thing. Makes me wonder.. good sounding track!
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Post by Ward on Jan 25, 2024 20:34:22 GMT -6
I think I overdosed on high end in my mid 20s to mid 30s and now I just tuck it in because I'm sick of the ear fatigue.
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Post by Ward on Jan 25, 2024 20:51:10 GMT -6
With regards toi the compression . . . if you know what you're doing, from experience, you know how to 'idiot-proof' your vocal recording from excess compression . . . by using excess compression but in the right way. And a healthy amount of saturation as well
If it's already flat-line leveled, there isn't anywhere for it to go. Now how do you make the vocal over-compressed without sounding compressed?
I can do this, for a small fee.
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Post by smashlord on Jan 25, 2024 20:51:48 GMT -6
I have noticed that acoustics in modern pop music seem to have their "top" focused more in the 4Khz range than up in the air range. I personally happen to like it. I think LPF with rooms is quite common.... due to the directional nature of top end, your cymbals can sound like they are coming from all different directions if you don't pick just one set of mics (usually the OHS) to carry the highest frequencies.
I think that tonality works well for the vibe of this tune. As others have mentioned, the vocal is a little crispy from the aggressive compression. Not terrible, but a tad odd for such an intimate song where you might want something a little more expressive. But hey, the mixer is getting bigger gigs than me, so what do I know!
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Post by christopher on Jan 26, 2024 12:23:29 GMT -6
The other thing I forgot to mention, my initial impression was Sm58, so could be a dynamic- or SM7? Something about the top end of syllables. But then I reminded myself 87 into an overdriven preamp is very close to =58 +a great chain. Kinda funny.. I’m guilty spending thousands to chase a $99 mic tone 😂.. but it IS better!
(Just noticed the comment about Nickelback producer! Haha good call)
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Post by drumsound on Jan 26, 2024 12:52:39 GMT -6
It's not about a "rolled off" sound, it is about committing to the right tones, mics and preamps in the beginning - building a sonic outcome, where nothing is actually "rolled off" You are absolutely 100% right on this. But i think the “rolled off” is, so interpreted it at least, just a description of how you can experience the sound scape, not how it is achieved technically. The aesthetic's is absolutely achieved by choice of instruments and gear, not eq’ing off the top end. I prefer calling the sound just a darker mix but i see it could be referred to as a rolled off one. Just as a ribbon has a “rolled off” sound to it. But i absolutely agree with your point. I was thinkint the same thing, ribbons and other mics that aren't 'bright' achieve a lot. Paying attention to how tones work together with what's already tracked, things of that nature do a lot for the mix. I think the cymbals are just mixed really low (and probably aren't played by a human) so they are perceived as as dark, but aren't overly dark. Dark cymbals are also popular. As I mentioned in the other thread about HPF/LPF.. I do it on EVERY track that I EQ. Set the EQ (crave) to hear what I'm cutting and I move the LPF/HPF until it's just getting to the meat of the audio and then back it off slightly. It has made a huge difference in reducing the amount of other EQ I've felt like adding in the past. Things naturally sit MUCH better without the "extra" stuff. Also, that track is still super bright to me. There's probably some harmonic stuff added in some way or another. You can hear it at the tail end as things are fading, there's a lot of grit from something distorted. So try rolling off the acoustics but then distorting them slightly and see if that brightness comes back.. Not listening at the moment, but by memory I remember thinking the acoustics were darker than I’m used to hearing in mixes. And when I say “darker” or “rolled off” I’m really meaning in comparison to what I expected to hear and consider the “norm.” Those acoustics just sounded like the were recorded and nothing lifted on the top end. And yeah - it’s definitely like brightness/top end has been not accentuated or rolled off and then something like Dolby A has been added on the vocal. Like the sense of that air band but it doesn’t hurt you… I guess it’s hard to tell on the drums, since there’s not much standard kit playing. But it does sound like the cymbals are down pretty far. Whole point was this was kind of a surprise to me. I hadn’t noticed it before. Maybe the cool engineers club met and everybody’s doing this…but I was not informed. Maybe they just didn't use a Taylor... |
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 26, 2024 13:21:40 GMT -6
You are absolutely 100% right on this. But i think the “rolled off” is, so interpreted it at least, just a description of how you can experience the sound scape, not how it is achieved technically. The aesthetic's is absolutely achieved by choice of instruments and gear, not eq’ing off the top end. I prefer calling the sound just a darker mix but i see it could be referred to as a rolled off one. Just as a ribbon has a “rolled off” sound to it. But i absolutely agree with your point. I was thinkint the same thing, ribbons and other mics that aren't 'bright' achieve a lot. Paying attention to how tones work together with what's already tracked, things of that nature do a lot for the mix. I think the cymbals are just mixed really low (and probably aren't played by a human) so they are perceived as as dark, but aren't overly dark. Dark cymbals are also popular. Yeah I almost exclusively track drums with ribbon oh. And what I have always used that really defines the cymbal sound for me is BIG cymbals that light up fairly easy. 20” is the smallest crash that will end up in my set. That gives a lower pitch, sweet wash that blends into the set. They will never take over the sound and balances well (as long as player is fairly balanced) |
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Post by sean on Jan 26, 2024 13:28:07 GMT -6
It's very likely Jerry Roe played drums on this. No idea if he did this at his house or in the studio. He's a Meinl guy. Hit him up on Facebook or Instagram and he'll probably tell you how it was tracked
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Post by Shadowk on Feb 21, 2024 11:00:05 GMT -6
As I mentioned in the other thread about HPF/LPF.. I do it on EVERY track that I EQ. Set the EQ (crave) to hear what I'm cutting and I move the LPF/HPF until it's just getting to the meat of the audio and then back it off slightly. It has made a huge difference in reducing the amount of other EQ I've felt like adding in the past. Things naturally sit MUCH better without the "extra" stuff. Also, that track is still super bright to me. There's probably some harmonic stuff added in some way or another. You can hear it at the tail end as things are fading, there's a lot of grit from something distorted. So try rolling off the acoustics but then distorting them slightly and see if that brightness comes back.. I mean, you don't have to guess too much.. Every audio engineer on the planet should know this or if you're new (not you Svart) print it off then stick it on something: |
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Post by Dan on Feb 21, 2024 11:27:18 GMT -6
As I mentioned in the other thread about HPF/LPF.. I do it on EVERY track that I EQ. Set the EQ (crave) to hear what I'm cutting and I move the LPF/HPF until it's just getting to the meat of the audio and then back it off slightly. It has made a huge difference in reducing the amount of other EQ I've felt like adding in the past. Things naturally sit MUCH better without the "extra" stuff. Also, that track is still super bright to me. There's probably some harmonic stuff added in some way or another. You can hear it at the tail end as things are fading, there's a lot of grit from something distorted. So try rolling off the acoustics but then distorting them slightly and see if that brightness comes back.. I mean, you don't have to guess too much.. Every audio engineer on the planet should know this or if you're new (not you Svart) print it off then stick it on something: |
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