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Post by sirthought on Feb 1, 2024 16:39:11 GMT -6
I worked in Pro A/V for some time and the rollout of AVB was really painful. They talked about it being around the corner for five years. A lot of the players just haven't adopted it and customers don't know what the F it is useful for, unless they have a big project.
1) The transfer of digital works (mostly) GREAT on the video side with AVB and manufacturers were jumping on board.
2) The transfer of digital works pretty inconsistent with the audio side. Quality and reliability can be a factor. Many manufacturers ask why muck things up when analog works better, and those who do accept digital have already put their eggs in an existing basket with MADI and DANTE.
AVB was supposed to even the playing field but if big players like RME and BURL aren't willing to drop MADI or DANTE altogether, it's hard to help consumers figure out which way to go. And the price tag for these boxes seem super high when you look at simpler ADAT boxes or the TB connections that UAD uses.
In my opinion, AVB was always going to accel in larger installations where distance and multiple rooms are a factor. Universities, stadiums, big churches, etc.
Most small studios don't need to cover that distance, so other than expandability, what advantage is there?
Also, in boxes with onboard preamps, you have Avid Carbon and some stageboxes from Presonus...and thats it. The rest of the items sold are either switches or interfaces with ADAT or DIN connectors, so the overall expense goes up.
I don't understand why more companies haven't gone the UAD route with Thunderbolt because it works so well (at least going from box to box). The latency is likely better than most of the network options as well. Also, Metric Halo's MHLink works a charm, but it's odd they haven't sold just preamp expansion boxes with that. But buying multiple interfaces seems silly to many small studios and the larger installs have no need for that.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 1, 2024 17:20:56 GMT -6
Most small studios don't need to cover that distance, so other than expandability, what advantage is there? Also, in boxes with onboard preamps, you have Avid Carbon and some stageboxes from Presonus...and thats it. The rest of the items sold are either switches or interfaces with ADAT or DIN connectors, so the overall expense goes up. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but MOTU has tons of options here. Many of them can also operate as standalone AD/DA but they don't need to. The MOTU 8M for example has 8 mic pres on combi jacks and 8 TRS outputs plus a few other pieces of icing. More examples hereBut in terms of what advantage there is to a small studio it's pretty simple I think. Affordability and expandability, especially for non-crucial parts. So, for example, For less than $2k I added a 24Ai and a 24Ao to my existing Ultralite AVB and wired up an entire 24 channel board in my rehearsal room. I'm getting about 2ms latency round trip. In my mixing room when I got my RND Orbit I added a 24Ao to my 828es and, snap of the fingers and an ancient ethernet cable and I have 24 new outputs for summing and whatever. Sorry if I'm missing the mark here! Kinda confused by your post. |
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Post by sirthought on Feb 1, 2024 17:43:53 GMT -6
It's my understanding that a lot of those MOTU devices haven't been in stock for some time. They were on the market, but it seems kind of vague about when anyone can buy them. Especially those with preamps on board. I did see the comment from the MOTU rep in that thread. But we're talking more than a year without stock on many of these things.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 1, 2024 17:52:10 GMT -6
It's my understanding that a lot of those MOTU devices haven't been in stock for some time. They were on the market, but it seems kind of vague about when anyone can buy them. Especially those with preamps on board. I did see the comment from the MOTU rep in that thread. But we're talking more than a year without stock on many of these things. Oh yeah, well that's true. But the Ao and Ai are in stock or at least they were a couple months ago. The good news is that MOTU has confirmed that they are going to continue to develop the AVB line with new offerings. So presumably we should be seeing versions that they can source parts for coming out soon for all the out of stock items. And they'll be touted as "upgrades" but really they'll just be "it's the 16a but now you can actually buy it." |
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Post by svart on Feb 2, 2024 8:17:12 GMT -6
Most small studios don't need to cover that distance, so other than expandability, what advantage is there? Also, in boxes with onboard preamps, you have Avid Carbon and some stageboxes from Presonus...and thats it. The rest of the items sold are either switches or interfaces with ADAT or DIN connectors, so the overall expense goes up. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but MOTU has tons of options here. Many of them can also operate as standalone AD/DA but they don't need to. The MOTU 8M for example has 8 mic pres on combi jacks and 8 TRS outputs plus a few other pieces of icing. More examples hereBut in terms of what advantage there is to a small studio it's pretty simple I think. Affordability and expandability, especially for non-crucial parts. So, for example, For less than $2k I added a 24Ai and a 24Ao to my existing Ultralite AVB and wired up an entire 24 channel board in my rehearsal room. I'm getting about 2ms latency round trip. In my mixing room when I got my RND Orbit I added a 24Ao to my 828es and, snap of the fingers and an ancient ethernet cable and I have 24 new outputs for summing and whatever. Sorry if I'm missing the mark here! Kinda confused by your post. For me, AVB was about being able to expand as well. I knew right away I'd need 24 I/O for normal stuff, PLUS being able to interface with my tape machine. I'd also need a bunch of random I/O for things like my headphone system, talkback mics, SPDIF I/O for things, etc. MOTU had all those things, but they were on different boxes, so buying an 828ES satisfied all the "random I/O" needs and a set of 24ai and 24ao satisfied everything else. IF I ever need anything else, I can just plug it right into my AVB router and set it up in the MOTU mixer (I still hate that program's GUI even though it's worked flawlessly) and I'm good to go. It really makes it simple to upgrade. |
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Post by okcrecording on Feb 2, 2024 9:53:29 GMT -6
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but MOTU has tons of options here. Many of them can also operate as standalone AD/DA but they don't need to. The MOTU 8M for example has 8 mic pres on combi jacks and 8 TRS outputs plus a few other pieces of icing. More examples hereBut in terms of what advantage there is to a small studio it's pretty simple I think. Affordability and expandability, especially for non-crucial parts. So, for example, For less than $2k I added a 24Ai and a 24Ao to my existing Ultralite AVB and wired up an entire 24 channel board in my rehearsal room. I'm getting about 2ms latency round trip. In my mixing room when I got my RND Orbit I added a 24Ao to my 828es and, snap of the fingers and an ancient ethernet cable and I have 24 new outputs for summing and whatever. Sorry if I'm missing the mark here! Kinda confused by your post. For me, AVB was about being able to expand as well. I knew right away I'd need 24 I/O for normal stuff, PLUS being able to interface with my tape machine. I'd also need a bunch of random I/O for things like my headphone system, talkback mics, SPDIF I/O for things, etc. MOTU had all those things, but they were on different boxes, so buying an 828ES satisfied all the "random I/O" needs and a set of 24ai and 24ao satisfied everything else. IF I ever need anything else, I can just plug it right into my AVB router and set it up in the MOTU mixer (I still hate that program's GUI even though it's worked flawlessly) and I'm good to go. It really makes it simple to upgrade. Agreed svart, I went with a 16A and a Monitor 8 for these very reasons. Windows 10 machine with thunderbolt and 32 samples buffer with very little latency. (Only using the MOTU mixer for multiple musician monitoring). What I love about this setup is it allows for some basic plugins while tracking. The MOTU mixer reverb leaves a little to be desired, so I use an outboard lexicon wired with S/PDIF for headphone mixes. Glad to hear they will be going with AVB in the future. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 2, 2024 9:55:05 GMT -6
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but MOTU has tons of options here. Many of them can also operate as standalone AD/DA but they don't need to. The MOTU 8M for example has 8 mic pres on combi jacks and 8 TRS outputs plus a few other pieces of icing. More examples hereBut in terms of what advantage there is to a small studio it's pretty simple I think. Affordability and expandability, especially for non-crucial parts. So, for example, For less than $2k I added a 24Ai and a 24Ao to my existing Ultralite AVB and wired up an entire 24 channel board in my rehearsal room. I'm getting about 2ms latency round trip. In my mixing room when I got my RND Orbit I added a 24Ao to my 828es and, snap of the fingers and an ancient ethernet cable and I have 24 new outputs for summing and whatever. Sorry if I'm missing the mark here! Kinda confused by your post. For me, AVB was about being able to expand as well. I knew right away I'd need 24 I/O for normal stuff, PLUS being able to interface with my tape machine. I'd also need a bunch of random I/O for things like my headphone system, talkback mics, SPDIF I/O for things, etc. MOTU had all those things, but they were on different boxes, so buying an 828ES satisfied all the "random I/O" needs and a set of 24ai and 24ao satisfied everything else. IF I ever need anything else, I can just plug it right into my AVB router and set it up in the MOTU mixer (I still hate that program's GUI even though it's worked flawlessly) and I'm good to go. It really makes it simple to upgrade. This is why I'm excited that they're gonna stick with the AVB line. Upgrading and expanding is a snap. And I've now got both of my rooms in the MOTU eco-system so it's also easy to swap bits around if I wanted to. |
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