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Post by vvvooojjj on Dec 30, 2023 6:14:47 GMT -6
A second hand Manley Mastering Varimu/Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Compressor + Audioscape/Stam SSL. Or Neve MBC. Then later on get an eq with broad curves.
Or the boring answer: save a lot more money and upgrade your monitoring. And of course converters, unless you're running your speakers via AES. And room.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 30, 2023 8:06:27 GMT -6
A second hand Manley Mastering Varimu/Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Compressor + Audioscape/Stam SSL. Or Neve MBC. Then later on get an eq with broad curves. Or the boring answer: save a lot more money and upgrade your monitoring. And of course converters, unless you're running your speakers via AES. And room. +1 That's exactly what I did. HEDD192 > Roll Music RMS755 (VCA comp) > Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Compressor > Thermionic Swift EQ > HEDD 192 (plus FX) My change of workflow is I now mix through this chain and mostly just add some level and a touch of limiting at the mastering stage. |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2023 8:44:51 GMT -6
“A second hand Manley Mastering Varimu/Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Compressor + Audioscape/Stam SSL. Or Neve MBC. Then later on get an eq with broad curves.”
Not arguing, but with the addition of the new vari mu module, the silver bullet mkii, plus an ssl clone comp, is a good option plus you have its pres?
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2023 9:06:17 GMT -6
Yeah i dont' think it's really do able. But to start.. HVA EQ6-3 HVA NEQ Silver Bullet And then do the rest ITB. You're not gonna get any good mastering comps really in that budget with EQs. But the Tubecore 3U is a good one to start and you could do that instead of the NEQ. But yeah I'd get better converters first. The Apollo stuff honestly is...not great. There are a lot better converters out there. Hell I'm using a HAPI(which is basically your entire 5k budget). Plus I'd be looking a better monitors and room treatment before gear anyways. Then Workflow workflow workflow. I never buy something that isn't fully stepped, Recall is too much of a PITA without it for revisions. Then figure out a clean fast workflow so you can be effiecent and learn the gear well and your room/monitors. Edit: I'm reading the thread more now and picking up more on the "mixbus" needs not mastering. Because yeah, 5k is not enough really. But lots of good stuff for mixbus stuff. Silver Bullet is a big win here. I'm definitely gonna check out the silver bullet on access analog asap. People here seem to love it. Props to drbill. Thanks. Something to note when you do - they only have the original if I'm not mistaken. The mk2 takes things significantly further, and IMO is a huge step up. But they both live in the same family tree if that makes sense. |
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 30, 2023 9:09:35 GMT -6
“A second hand Manley Mastering Varimu/Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Compressor + Audioscape/Stam SSL. Or Neve MBC. Then later on get an eq with broad curves.” Not arguing, but with the addition of the new vari mu module, the silver bullet mkii, plus an ssl clone comp, is a good option plus you have its pres? Nice! Is the SB vari mu module a high voltage (350v) design? Can it replace the solid state mojo amps? Or is it a Vari-mu comp? I thought the pre-amps sounded good as mic pre's but personally I didn't like the sound of them producing hair for a mix (not my cup of tea) perhaps this vari-mu module can cover that element in hand with the VCA comp unit. If I ever retire from owning a full sized rig and want something small and compact to keep putting some music out there then I do think the SB is a great little unit. SB + those extra modules RME UFX III ATC 25's Perfect little project studio rig. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 10:03:41 GMT -6
How can someone be a mastering engineer without full range speakers? Room acoustics and measurements are slightly odd in these regards, there's obvious clauses like you'll never get a mid powered 5" woofer to be anywhere near full range however it doesn't mean that a powerful 9" + or multi-bass driver setup can't achieve it with help from your room.
Probably the best example is the ATC SCM25's, if I remember correctly I have a room only slightly larger than TheHighTenor's but the dimensions are similar and you'd be surprised at the measurements they come out with. 47Hz -6? Hmm, more like 39 when tuned with a bit of DSP, trick is to tuck them deep into a boundary and let said boundary do the work. The ATC drivers and amps are so well built you can get away with a bit of extra bass boost correction as well. In my large room freestanding however the SCM 25's are ridiciously bass light, for that room I'd be looking at Quested, SCM110's etc. and ultimately it was just another reason to not use that room due to $$$ amount.
My speakers go down to 29Hz currently but anything above 15 X 22 and I'd be looking to replace them or use headphones. Moving house is going to be fun.. I, like some others have to feel the bass and IME it can lead to epiphany's when troubleshooting. Some seem to be fine without it but that's not me.
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Post by noob on Dec 30, 2023 10:15:38 GMT -6
I'm definitely gonna check out the silver bullet on access analog asap. People here seem to love it. Props to drbill. Thanks. Something to note when you do - they only have the original if I'm not mistaken. The mk2 takes things significantly further, and IMO is a huge step up. But they both live in the same family tree if that makes sense. Ah I see. I'd love to hear the mk2 in action. Most of the reviews I can find on Youtube are of the plugin. I've actually used the plugin, but I'd love to hear the actual device. Do you know of any audio samples? Would love to hear how much saturation it can muster. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 10:43:41 GMT -6
I'm curious how your opinion would change when applying dither. When I've listened to the bounced files, the differences were not subtle. The Portico II and Fusion probably provide the most opportunity for drastic changes out of anything I've tried. Which silk are you using? I think for me only the red one did anything I found useful. The compressor on it...I found it good but not sure if I'd say it's one of the best. I've only ever worked with an early serial number SH, not the modern version. Supposedly it's quite different. I'd rank it above the Manley Vari-Mus on AA and in line with the Alpha or the Stamchild MKII. Eventually we'll be able to use AA's Alpha without having to pay for the whole Magic Garden. That will be interesting. Getting back to the Fusion, I usually use it without Vintage Drive on. VD is not bad, I just don't feel like I need it. The way you set the Violet eq matters a lot. For the longest time I had been doing 30hz and 20khz. Lately it's been 50hz and 20khz. We'll see if I keep it there. Space I usually set at the first dot and put Width just below +2. With the HFC I usually have the not to far off from the far left position and the x-over set a little above 14k. Transformer I usually leave on because of the energy it gives. When it comes to the HPF, it's something I experiment with occasionally. Fusion is usually the first thing I'll have in a chain. Ah that's very interesting. I didn't mess with the fusion for too long on there because as you know, it costs money haha, and I was getting some really great sounds out of the Neve stuff. I'm sure if I had spent more time with it, I would've found a nice sweet spot on the drive. Overall, my quick impression was that any knob I messed with on the MBT just sounded good and did something musical, whereas when I played around with the fusion it felt like I could make it sound cool, but it took a lot longer to dial something in. Again, just my first impression. For the MBP, I used one of their presets and just fiddled with the attack and release a bit, added BLUE silk, and it made my mix immediately pop out of the screen like HD. It was like I was swimming in the rhythm all of the sudden. Maybe there are ways to make other compressors sound like that, but I haven't heard them. The blue silk added a crazy low end that wasn't even present in the track beforehand, I found it to be very pleasing to the ears.  I did try the V9 Manley Comp too, which sounded very gluey like it made everything seem very soft in a pleasing way. It didn't quite give me that musicality and character that I found in the Neves, but that could also be because I only played with it for about 10 minutes. The silk has nothing to do with compression at all. It reduces the negative feedback in the transformer circuit for extra distortion and saturation. You can get similar and even fatter or crispier saturation effects from gear with dirtier transformers or other processors pushed into non-linearity. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2023 10:47:13 GMT -6
“A second hand Manley Mastering Varimu/Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Compressor + Audioscape/Stam SSL. Or Neve MBC. Then later on get an eq with broad curves.” Not arguing, but with the addition of the new vari mu module, the silver bullet mkii, plus an ssl clone comp, is a good option plus you have its pres? Nice! Is the SB vari mu module a high voltage (350v) design? Can it replace the solid state mojo amps? Or is it a Vari-mu comp? I thought the pre-amps sounded good as mic pre's but personally I didn't like the sound of them producing hair for a mix (not my cup of tea) perhaps this vari-mu module can cover that element in hand with the VCA comp unit. If I ever retire from owning a full sized rig and want something small and compact to keep putting some music out there then I do think the SB is a great little unit. SB + those extra modules RME UFX III ATC 25's Perfect little project studio rig. Don’t know, ask the designers: was more thinking about the op’s stated budget and options. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2023 10:58:27 GMT -6
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Post by noob on Dec 30, 2023 11:08:36 GMT -6
Ah that's very interesting. I didn't mess with the fusion for too long on there because as you know, it costs money haha, and I was getting some really great sounds out of the Neve stuff. I'm sure if I had spent more time with it, I would've found a nice sweet spot on the drive. Overall, my quick impression was that any knob I messed with on the MBT just sounded good and did something musical, whereas when I played around with the fusion it felt like I could make it sound cool, but it took a lot longer to dial something in. Again, just my first impression. For the MBP, I used one of their presets and just fiddled with the attack and release a bit, added BLUE silk, and it made my mix immediately pop out of the screen like HD. It was like I was swimming in the rhythm all of the sudden. Maybe there are ways to make other compressors sound like that, but I haven't heard them. The blue silk added a crazy low end that wasn't even present in the track beforehand, I found it to be very pleasing to the ears. I did try the V9 Manley Comp too, which sounded very gluey like it made everything seem very soft in a pleasing way. It didn't quite give me that musicality and character that I found in the Neves, but that could also be because I only played with it for about 10 minutes. The silk has nothing to do with compression at all. It reduces the negative feedback in the transformer circuit for extra distortion and saturation. You can get similar and even fatter or crispier saturation effects from gear with dirtier transformers or other processors pushed into non-linearity. That's right, it doesn't have anything to do with the compression. I still regard it as magic. Any examples of something else that can do that? I am definitely not hearing that on any of the SB videos I've seen (albeit there's only a few online). |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Dec 30, 2023 11:09:17 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 11:23:16 GMT -6
The silk has nothing to do with compression at all. It reduces the negative feedback in the transformer circuit for extra distortion and saturation. You can get similar and even fatter or crispier saturation effects from gear with dirtier transformers or other processors pushed into non-linearity. I think N00B has just discovered the foundations of well done even and odd harmonic distortion manipulation. Also ericn , there's a big difference between carefully selected types of distortion that ears enjoy and are necessary as opposed to things like (IMD) broadband distortion, inharmonic (truncation, aliasing), hiss blahdy blah. I'm sure there is one out there who loves nothing but fundamental frequencies because there always has to be one. However, that's just not how audio works is it? I mean, on an 80Hz playback system a bass players E, A & D would be just silence. Also we do tend to boost harmonic content for smaller speakers and excitement purposes..
So, ultimately we do love and need distortion but it's such an open ended term encapsulating many parts. Many audio "engineers" and use that term loosely because when I studied it mixing was a small factor as we were bulding compressors etc. many don't even seem to realise that they are doing this (and that's fine) but I have noticed that some say analog equipment is "better" without actually ever truly knowing why. You don't need to be a tech guru to be a good mixer or mastering person but it does help to spend six months reading arcticles about the sciences behind it. Once you do it all sort of falls into place.
Oh and just to back up what Dan was saying: Here's the official spiel from RND, "Every mix deserves its own treatment. The Silk & Texture circuit allows you to fine-tune the amount (and type) of harmonic content in the output stage."
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