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Post by drbill on Dec 29, 2023 9:49:12 GMT -6
Calling out the Manley for "heavy reliance on distortion" might be one of the most egregious audio descriptions I've ever heard while at the same time suggesting plugins..... ?? I'm. Sorry. That's just wrong. I’m sorry Bill, the Manley Varimu is massively distorted compared to modern vca, pwm, and some optical compressors where the harmonics from gain reduction overpower any real box tone they may have in their circuitry. If they’re a VCA compressor with a smoother RMS detector, there’s often only one third harmonic and that is overshadowed by intermodulation distortion. The modern itb mastering compressors are based off of the dual detector designs with both rms and peak detectors. They have ways to minimize distortion that are impossible in analog while utilizing all of the program dependent, attack/release tricks from analog. They go far beyond feedback compressors with multiple time constants no matter how smooth those may be. The Manley Varimu is a linear, feedback peak detector compressor without a lot of program dependency. It has a slow to molasses attack and a reasonable release but only one release. The internet recommended way to use it is to tickle the peaks with a fast release to not pump too much. This makes most of the settings unusable. I don't think DISA and Manley intended that. The way to use it more is to hit it hot in limit mode with the high pass filter on to not pump with the kick or bass line, saturate off the peaks, and set attack and release appropriately (you can get away with a lot more settings here) to level the track with a couple vu of gain reduction. This gives the most control, the most goo and sheen, and makes it sound the coolest it can. If it's too much, switch to compression. This isn't a lot of control though using volume modulation. And yet...... One of (if not the) most popular mastering compressors of all time. |
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Post by noob on Dec 29, 2023 10:04:13 GMT -6
Lots of great feedback in this thread. I appreciate all the insight. I definitely need to try Access analog. I've been meaning to for a while now. Thanks for the ideas everyone!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 29, 2023 10:23:20 GMT -6
I’m sorry Bill, the Manley Varimu is massively distorted compared to modern vca, pwm, and some optical compressors where the harmonics from gain reduction overpower any real box tone they may have in their circuitry. If they’re a VCA compressor with a smoother RMS detector, there’s often only one third harmonic and that is overshadowed by intermodulation distortion. The modern itb mastering compressors are based off of the dual detector designs with both rms and peak detectors. They have ways to minimize distortion that are impossible in analog while utilizing all of the program dependent, attack/release tricks from analog. They go far beyond feedback compressors with multiple time constants no matter how smooth those may be. The Manley Varimu is a linear, feedback peak detector compressor without a lot of program dependency. It has a slow to molasses attack and a reasonable release but only one release. The internet recommended way to use it is to tickle the peaks with a fast release to not pump too much. This makes most of the settings unusable. I don't think DISA and Manley intended that. The way to use it more is to hit it hot in limit mode with the high pass filter on to not pump with the kick or bass line, saturate off the peaks, and set attack and release appropriately (you can get away with a lot more settings here) to level the track with a couple vu of gain reduction. This gives the most control, the most goo and sheen, and makes it sound the coolest it can. If it's too much, switch to compression. This isn't a lot of control though using volume modulation. And yet...... One of (if not the) most popular mastering compressors of all time. I’ll say it again, we like distortion 😁 We collectively have to come to grips with the fact a good portion of what draws us to any piece of gear is what it does wrong as much as right. Now if we were in the world of audiophiles, that statement would start a flame war with all the different camps who subscribe to a particular theory of what makes the best reproduction systems. Even the suggestion that anyone likes distortion would probably get me banned for life. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2023 11:22:55 GMT -6
I always felt the Collins 26U-2 I had was much cleaner and far more controllable than any of the Manley Vari-Mu I ever drove. Worked well with light tickles or fully buried. The Manley always felt like a backslide compared to some of what came before.
Yeah…mastering is very much about hearing. One can say “get great speakers that go low” but they’re useless if the ROOM can’t handle it. I know of a couple mastering guys with fairly humble equipment setups but well designed rooms, they’ll always be higher on my list.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 29, 2023 12:00:11 GMT -6
I always felt the Collins 26U-2 I had was much cleaner and far more controllable than any of the Manley Vari-Mu I ever drove. Worked well with light tickles or fully buried. The Manley always felt like a backslide compared to some of what came before. Yeah…mastering is very much about hearing. One can say “get great speakers that go low” but they’re useless if the ROOM can’t handle it. I know of a couple mastering guys with fairly humble equipment setups but well designed rooms, they’ll always be higher on my list. m Of course let’s not forget that Collins was designed to be in the air chain so the design criteria was let’s go as clean as we can vs the Manley where it was more about let’s make it sound cool. Yeah the room, well it’s always the room right? I guess I probably should have added “ and a room that will support them”, my bad😎 |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Dec 29, 2023 13:50:40 GMT -6
I already did this exercise, Gainlabs or IAA, Bettermaker & the Core 59's are your best bet for a cheaper mastering chain. You'll still be at least $5K over budget and the monitors only satisfy Eric's criteria if your room supports them. That being said I still use plugins because no piece of analog equipment can do what the likes of Ozone can. Yeah Danny brings up a good point, the key is finding plugins that what analog can’t and going analog where plugins can’t do it. Another point: looking at Justin / Trakworx mastering chain, while nobody is going to say any of this chain isn’t highly coveted kit, in the world of mastering gear choices are much more personal than in the studio simply because your never going to see someone else in the drivers seat and because the client is far less likely to choose a mastering house based on gear expectations. This is a huge advantage. That's it exactly. Plugins and hardware, each chosen for their strengths that the other lacks. I love plugins. They save the day on a regular basis by accomplishing oughta-be-impossible feats that analog gear could never hope to. And my personal-preference analog chain is indispensable when called for to attain the dimension and harmonic richness that I and my clients crave. It's never been about digital vs analog. I gotta have both. Hybrid. Otherwise one hand is tied behind my back. |
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Post by copperx on Dec 29, 2023 14:02:07 GMT -6
A true set of Fullrange speakers, nothing pisses me off more than getting something back from a ME and on just the Quested’s I notice LF problems or no LF because the ME is using speakers that can’t go down to 30HZ! How can someone be a mastering engineer without full range speakers? It sounds borderline illegal. |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Dec 29, 2023 14:19:20 GMT -6
A true set of Fullrange speakers, nothing pisses me off more than getting something back from a ME and on just the Quested’s I notice LF problems or no LF because the ME is using speakers that can’t go down to 30HZ! How can someone be a mastering engineer without full range speakers? It sounds borderline illegal. Headphones. But that's not for me. I need to feel the low end hit my chest. Some successful MEs only work in headphones though... |
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Post by noob on Dec 29, 2023 14:28:40 GMT -6
I don't think it's debatable how important monitoring is for mastering. As far as the name of this thread, maybe I should have called it "build an analog 2-bus chain for $5k" haha. Because yes, I'm not a mastering engineer  |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 29, 2023 14:47:05 GMT -6
I don't think it's debatable how important monitoring is for mastering. As far as the name of this thread, maybe I should have called it "build an analog 2-bus chain for $5k" haha. Because yes, I'm not a mastering engineer Well I'm a Silver Bullet fan but also an RND fan. Sounds like you love the MBP, what's to debate? Hard to imagine that being a purchase you'd regret. Personally I do RND Orbit -> Silver Bullet MK1 -> Tegeler Crème. I don't really tweak it that much, just kind of have it there. My only regret is I wish I could drive the Orbit harder without clipping my outputs. Maybe just as well though to avoid temptation to overdo it. |
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Post by noob on Dec 29, 2023 15:44:46 GMT -6
I don't think it's debatable how important monitoring is for mastering. As far as the name of this thread, maybe I should have called it "build an analog 2-bus chain for $5k" haha. Because yes, I'm not a mastering engineer Well I'm a Silver Bullet fan but also an RND fan. Sounds like you love the MBP, what's to debate? Hard to imagine that being a purchase you'd regret. Personally I do RND Orbit -> Silver Bullet MK1 -> Tegeler Crème. I don't really tweak it that much, just kind of have it there. My only regret is I wish I could drive the Orbit harder without clipping my outputs. Maybe just as well though to avoid temptation to overdo it. I don't think I'd regret it at all, just trying to figure out if I can maximize the rack and still win out. I'm definitely gonna be demoing the MPB and MBT units both on access analog, see which one I think fits my needs more. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 29, 2023 15:50:05 GMT -6
Well I'm a Silver Bullet fan but also an RND fan. Sounds like you love the MBP, what's to debate? Hard to imagine that being a purchase you'd regret. Personally I do RND Orbit -> Silver Bullet MK1 -> Tegeler Crème. I don't really tweak it that much, just kind of have it there. My only regret is I wish I could drive the Orbit harder without clipping my outputs. Maybe just as well though to avoid temptation to overdo it. I don't think I'd regret it at all, just trying to figure out if I can maximize the rack and still win out. I'm definitely gonna be demoing the MPB and MBT units both on access analog, see which one I think fits my needs more. Bill's idea to add the Zod's is cool. You can drive into them and then attenuate before conversion. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 29, 2023 15:51:26 GMT -6
I don't think I'd regret it at all, just trying to figure out if I can maximize the rack and still win out. I'm definitely gonna be demoing the MPB and MBT units both on access analog, see which one I think fits my needs more. Bill's idea to add the Zod's is cool. You can drive into them and then attenuate before conversion. One thing worth noting on the silver bullet is that it also is a great preamp. And if you look at photos of the back of the unit you can see that it's got some very flexible routing. |
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 29, 2023 16:18:27 GMT -6
Has anyone else compared the two different versions of the Manley Vari-Mu that Access Analog has? V9 always sounded a lot better to me. I'm definitely curious who these MEs are that get it done with headphones since my living space makes it impossible to use speakers and treatment. Being able to get some experience with top grade hardware killed off about 95% of my desire to keep buying plugins or cheaper hardware. Now I treat every purchase with a lot more scrutiny. It has to really add something big like the Cedar Adaptive Limiter 2. That thing is great as a finishing tool to balance a master when converting to 16-bit. I'm not using it for level, so I can't say if it does that any better than a Pro-L2. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd love to build a setup like Bill has. But that's a pipe dream for me. So, I have to try and find the smallest number of things that make the biggest impact.
What often is not mentioned anywhere is how limiting cpu power is on the potential of ITB mixes. You can't just load up 100 instances of Satin along with lots of other great stuff and hit the play button. Maybe no processor in existence could handle that. Committing and freezing isn't a great option because you can't hear how all these things sound simultaneously. I find that I have to be a lot more careful with plugins. If I use a good piece of hardware to take the place of one or more plugins and commit, the resulting track is usually pretty easy to work with. Hybrid mixing yields me much better results just by replacing the plugin compressors and then using stuff like Fusion on certain sub-mixes. It's a really time-consuming process though.
Access Analog is upgrading some things so that it's easier to use with slower Internet connections. If they grew their userbase significantly, there'd be too much demand for the equipment though. Maybe they'd buy more, who knows. Hopefully they get more eqs, just so we can see what ones far exceed the quality of the plugins.
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Post by niklas1073 on Dec 29, 2023 17:02:16 GMT -6
Well I pretty much did exactly this over a few years, but eventually ending up with about 5k (if bought new) for a mastering vari-mu and a stereo pultec style in my 2buss, and i couldn’t be happier at this point. Just posted today an end analysis over some a/bing etc in an thread i started some time ago. realgearonline.com/post/348725/threadA very colored, one trick pony, but exactly what I personally was after in a 2bus chain. I picked up the vari mu from a mastering engineer closing shop, so it had been in a mastering environment prior to me. I use it solely as a 2bus comp, nowhere else. |
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Post by noob on Dec 29, 2023 17:14:07 GMT -6
Well I just messed around with the MBT and the MBP for a while on access analog and now I need to save up so I can buy both....  |
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Post by drbill on Dec 29, 2023 18:53:10 GMT -6
Has anyone else compared the two different versions of the Manley Vari-Mu that Access Analog has? V9 always sounded a lot better to me. I have not. But V9 is probably more distorted. . . . . |
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 29, 2023 19:40:07 GMT -6
Well I just messed around with the MBT and the MBP for a while on access analog and now I need to save up so I can buy both.... Try the Fusion too. I've tried adding the Portico II to chains I made with the Fusion and a saturator and compressor and it got really phasey if I started using the SFE a lot. They seem to switch the converter that the Portico II is attached to. The first one is now going to an Aurora N. For a while I think it was on the Antelope when it had been on the Aurora originally. There's a guy on Youtube who compared his Portico II with Access Analog's and the one from Access Analog sounded much better, probably due to superior conversion. You may not need both. The more experience you get with this stuff, the more you'll uncover different things you can do that you may not have been initially aware of. Or maybe you'll find something else that you like better. Try watching the videos for the WesAudio stuff. Hyperion can be pretty transformative. The Portico II's SFE is basically a M-S eq I've read and the Wes stuff has M-S. You may even prefer a combo of Rhea and Hyperion over the Portico. There's combos of gear I've preferred over the basic settings I used with the Magic Garden chain Access Analog has. Maybe if I wanted to spend $500 to buy several hours to learn it, I'd prefer the MG. Too bad there's no chain store where you could walk in and try this stuff like a Guitar Center. I'd just encourage you to keep testing things and researching before using up your budget. Especially if you're not planning to keep buying hardware. Testing is always best because you never know when some Youtuber or even forum poster on one of the big audio forums has been compensated to promote something. Have you tried putting a dither plugin before your first hardware insert or the Analog Matrix plugin? As far as I know, Access Analog does not dither anything. Download Bitter by Stillwell, it's free. That will show when you're outputting 32-bit to your converter if you're using 32-bit float or anything above 24-bit. The Maat Linpro was my favorite of the dithers that I tried. For some reason I can't use it over and over though. When I want to add a piece of hardware onto a track I just committed through other hardware, sometimes I get weird feedback from the Maat on the committed track. So, then I use Gooddither instead. Your stuff will sound a bit different when outputting the correct number of bits. Standard practice seems to be to not use dither, at least from what I see on Youtube videos. Take that for what it's worth. This forum has about the best dither info out there if you search it. |
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Post by noob on Dec 29, 2023 20:47:30 GMT -6
Well I just messed around with the MBT and the MBP for a while on access analog and now I need to save up so I can buy both.... Try the Fusion too. I've tried adding the Portico II to chains I made with the Fusion and a saturator and compressor and it got really phasey if I started using the SFE a lot. They seem to switch the converter that the Portico II is attached to. The first one is now going to an Aurora N. For a while I think it was on the Antelope when it had been on the Aurora originally. There's a guy on Youtube who compared his Portico II with Access Analog's and the one from Access Analog sounded much better, probably due to superior conversion. You may not need both. The more experience you get with this stuff, the more you'll uncover different things you can do that you may not have been initially aware of. Or maybe you'll find something else that you like better. Try watching the videos for the WesAudio stuff. Hyperion can be pretty transformative. The Portico II's SFE is basically a M-S eq I've read and the Wes stuff has M-S. You may even prefer a combo of Rhea and Hyperion over the Portico. There's combos of gear I've preferred over the basic settings I used with the Magic Garden chain Access Analog has. Maybe if I wanted to spend $500 to buy several hours to learn it, I'd prefer the MG. Too bad there's no chain store where you could walk in and try this stuff like a Guitar Center. I'd just encourage you to keep testing things and researching before using up your budget. Especially if you're not planning to keep buying hardware. Testing is always best because you never know when some Youtuber or even forum poster on one of the big audio forums has been compensated to promote something. Have you tried putting a dither plugin before your first hardware insert or the Analog Matrix plugin? As far as I know, Access Analog does not dither anything. Download Bitter by Stillwell, it's free. That will show when you're outputting 32-bit to your converter if you're using 32-bit float or anything above 24-bit. The Maat Linpro was my favorite of the dithers that I tried. For some reason I can't use it over and over though. When I want to add a piece of hardware onto a track I just committed through other hardware, sometimes I get weird feedback from the Maat on the committed track. So, then I use Gooddither instead. Your stuff will sound a bit different when outputting the correct number of bits. Standard practice seems to be to not use dither, at least from what I see on Youtube videos. Take that for what it's worth. This forum has about the best dither info out there if you search it. Oh no I didn't dither anything I sent through. I tried the Fusion. It seems cool, but compared to the MBT it doesn't sound anything close to the same quality. Honestly, nothing I tried on there had the mojo of the MBP or the MBT. I'm trying a lot of stuff, there's just something about those Neve units... They add something that others don't seem to do, especially to the genre of music I'm working with. They are just such different units, with some crossover, so obviously I was joking when I said I needed both, but it's a hard decision. On one hand, I think I'd probably use the MBT more because I could punch up so many sounds with it, use it on pretty much everything. But then I'd be missing out on the incredible musical compression of the MBP which honestly doesn't even sound real. I'd rather have that thing any day over a Shadow Hills, no offense to any SH users here, but the mojo in that compressor is just insane. It's a very difficult choice. I think if the MBT was a bit less and I could buy a really nice stereo bus comp with it, that would be a no brainer for me (but I will definitely keep scoping a lot of different stuff out before I make any decisions). |
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Post by noob on Dec 29, 2023 22:43:21 GMT -6
What about something like this
RND Orbit -> Gainlab Empress Tube EQ -> SA-4000 MK3 -> SPL Vitalizer MK3
In total that's around $500 give or take over budget (if bought new), I'd say it's a pretty good stereo bus chain.
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 29, 2023 22:59:29 GMT -6
Try the Fusion too. I've tried adding the Portico II to chains I made with the Fusion and a saturator and compressor and it got really phasey if I started using the SFE a lot. They seem to switch the converter that the Portico II is attached to. The first one is now going to an Aurora N. For a while I think it was on the Antelope when it had been on the Aurora originally. There's a guy on Youtube who compared his Portico II with Access Analog's and the one from Access Analog sounded much better, probably due to superior conversion. You may not need both. The more experience you get with this stuff, the more you'll uncover different things you can do that you may not have been initially aware of. Or maybe you'll find something else that you like better. Try watching the videos for the WesAudio stuff. Hyperion can be pretty transformative. The Portico II's SFE is basically a M-S eq I've read and the Wes stuff has M-S. You may even prefer a combo of Rhea and Hyperion over the Portico. There's combos of gear I've preferred over the basic settings I used with the Magic Garden chain Access Analog has. Maybe if I wanted to spend $500 to buy several hours to learn it, I'd prefer the MG. Too bad there's no chain store where you could walk in and try this stuff like a Guitar Center. I'd just encourage you to keep testing things and researching before using up your budget. Especially if you're not planning to keep buying hardware. Testing is always best because you never know when some Youtuber or even forum poster on one of the big audio forums has been compensated to promote something. Have you tried putting a dither plugin before your first hardware insert or the Analog Matrix plugin? As far as I know, Access Analog does not dither anything. Download Bitter by Stillwell, it's free. That will show when you're outputting 32-bit to your converter if you're using 32-bit float or anything above 24-bit. The Maat Linpro was my favorite of the dithers that I tried. For some reason I can't use it over and over though. When I want to add a piece of hardware onto a track I just committed through other hardware, sometimes I get weird feedback from the Maat on the committed track. So, then I use Gooddither instead. Your stuff will sound a bit different when outputting the correct number of bits. Standard practice seems to be to not use dither, at least from what I see on Youtube videos. Take that for what it's worth. This forum has about the best dither info out there if you search it. Oh no I didn't dither anything I sent through. I tried the Fusion. It seems cool, but compared to the MBT it doesn't sound anything close to the same quality. Honestly, nothing I tried on there had the mojo of the MBP or the MBT. I'm trying a lot of stuff, there's just something about those Neve units... They add something that others don't seem to do, especially to the genre of music I'm working with. They are just such different units, with some crossover, so obviously I was joking when I said I needed both, but it's a hard decision. On one hand, I think I'd probably use the MBT more because I could punch up so many sounds with it, use it on pretty much everything. But then I'd be missing out on the incredible musical compression of the MBP which honestly doesn't even sound real. I'd rather have that thing any day over a Shadow Hills, no offense to any SH users here, but the mojo in that compressor is just insane. It's a very difficult choice. I think if the MBT was a bit less and I could buy a really nice stereo bus comp with it, that would be a no brainer for me (but I will definitely keep scoping a lot of different stuff out before I make any decisions). I'm curious how your opinion would change when applying dither. When I've listened to the bounced files, the differences were not subtle. The Portico II and Fusion probably provide the most opportunity for drastic changes out of anything I've tried. Which silk are you using? I think for me only the red one did anything I found useful. The compressor on it...I found it good but not sure if I'd say it's one of the best. I've only ever worked with an early serial number SH, not the modern version. Supposedly it's quite different. I'd rank it above the Manley Vari-Mus on AA and in line with the Alpha or the Stamchild MKII. Eventually we'll be able to use AA's Alpha without having to pay for the whole Magic Garden. That will be interesting. Getting back to the Fusion, I usually use it without Vintage Drive on. VD is not bad, I just don't feel like I need it. The way you set the Violet eq matters a lot. For the longest time I had been doing 30hz and 20khz. Lately it's been 50hz and 20khz. We'll see if I keep it there. Space I usually set at the first dot and put Width just below +2. With the HFC I usually have the not to far off from the far left position and the x-over set a little above 14k. Transformer I usually leave on because of the energy it gives. When it comes to the HPF, it's something I experiment with occasionally. Fusion is usually the first thing I'll have in a chain. |
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Post by noob on Dec 29, 2023 23:10:53 GMT -6
Oh no I didn't dither anything I sent through. I tried the Fusion. It seems cool, but compared to the MBT it doesn't sound anything close to the same quality. Honestly, nothing I tried on there had the mojo of the MBP or the MBT. I'm trying a lot of stuff, there's just something about those Neve units... They add something that others don't seem to do, especially to the genre of music I'm working with. They are just such different units, with some crossover, so obviously I was joking when I said I needed both, but it's a hard decision. On one hand, I think I'd probably use the MBT more because I could punch up so many sounds with it, use it on pretty much everything. But then I'd be missing out on the incredible musical compression of the MBP which honestly doesn't even sound real. I'd rather have that thing any day over a Shadow Hills, no offense to any SH users here, but the mojo in that compressor is just insane. It's a very difficult choice. I think if the MBT was a bit less and I could buy a really nice stereo bus comp with it, that would be a no brainer for me (but I will definitely keep scoping a lot of different stuff out before I make any decisions). I'm curious how your opinion would change when applying dither. When I've listened to the bounced files, the differences were not subtle. The Portico II and Fusion probably provide the most opportunity for drastic changes out of anything I've tried. Which silk are you using? I think for me only the red one did anything I found useful. The compressor on it...I found it good but not sure if I'd say it's one of the best. I've only ever worked with an early serial number SH, not the modern version. Supposedly it's quite different. I'd rank it above the Manley Vari-Mus on AA and in line with the Alpha or the Stamchild MKII. Eventually we'll be able to use AA's Alpha without having to pay for the whole Magic Garden. That will be interesting. Getting back to the Fusion, I usually use it without Vintage Drive on. VD is not bad, I just don't feel like I need it. The way you set the Violet eq matters a lot. For the longest time I had been doing 30hz and 20khz. Lately it's been 50hz and 20khz. We'll see if I keep it there. Space I usually set at the first dot and put Width just below +2. With the HFC I usually have the not to far off from the far left position and the x-over set a little above 14k. Transformer I usually leave on because of the energy it gives. When it comes to the HPF, it's something I experiment with occasionally. Fusion is usually the first thing I'll have in a chain. Ah that's very interesting. I didn't mess with the fusion for too long on there because as you know, it costs money haha, and I was getting some really great sounds out of the Neve stuff. I'm sure if I had spent more time with it, I would've found a nice sweet spot on the drive. Overall, my quick impression was that any knob I messed with on the MBT just sounded good and did something musical, whereas when I played around with the fusion it felt like I could make it sound cool, but it took a lot longer to dial something in. Again, just my first impression. For the MBP, I used one of their presets and just fiddled with the attack and release a bit, added BLUE silk, and it made my mix immediately pop out of the screen like HD. It was like I was swimming in the rhythm all of the sudden. Maybe there are ways to make other compressors sound like that, but I haven't heard them. The blue silk added a crazy low end that wasn't even present in the track beforehand, I found it to be very pleasing to the ears. I did try the V9 Manley Comp too, which sounded very gluey like it made everything seem very soft in a pleasing way. It didn't quite give me that musicality and character that I found in the Neves, but that could also be because I only played with it for about 10 minutes. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Dec 29, 2023 23:39:26 GMT -6
Yeah i dont' think it's really do able.
But to start..
HVA EQ6-3
HVA NEQ
Silver Bullet
And then do the rest ITB. You're not gonna get any good mastering comps really in that budget with EQs. But the Tubecore 3U is a good one to start and you could do that instead of the NEQ.
But yeah I'd get better converters first. The Apollo stuff honestly is...not great. There are a lot better converters out there. Hell I'm using a HAPI(which is basically your entire 5k budget).
Plus I'd be looking a better monitors and room treatment before gear anyways.
Then Workflow workflow workflow. I never buy something that isn't fully stepped, Recall is too much of a PITA without it for revisions. Then figure out a clean fast workflow so you can be effiecent and learn the gear well and your room/monitors.
Edit: I'm reading the thread more now and picking up more on the "mixbus" needs not mastering. Because yeah, 5k is not enough really. But lots of good stuff for mixbus stuff. Silver Bullet is a big win here.
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Post by noob on Dec 30, 2023 0:16:47 GMT -6
Yeah i dont' think it's really do able. But to start.. HVA EQ6-3 HVA NEQ Silver Bullet And then do the rest ITB. You're not gonna get any good mastering comps really in that budget with EQs. But the Tubecore 3U is a good one to start and you could do that instead of the NEQ. But yeah I'd get better converters first. The Apollo stuff honestly is...not great. There are a lot better converters out there. Hell I'm using a HAPI(which is basically your entire 5k budget). Plus I'd be looking a better monitors and room treatment before gear anyways. Then Workflow workflow workflow. I never buy something that isn't fully stepped, Recall is too much of a PITA without it for revisions. Then figure out a clean fast workflow so you can be effiecent and learn the gear well and your room/monitors. Edit: I'm reading the thread more now and picking up more on the "mixbus" needs not mastering. Because yeah, 5k is not enough really. But lots of good stuff for mixbus stuff. Silver Bullet is a big win here. I'm definitely gonna check out the silver bullet on access analog asap. People here seem to love it. Props to drbill. |
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 30, 2023 2:42:52 GMT -6
I'm curious how your opinion would change when applying dither. When I've listened to the bounced files, the differences were not subtle. The Portico II and Fusion probably provide the most opportunity for drastic changes out of anything I've tried. Which silk are you using? I think for me only the red one did anything I found useful. The compressor on it...I found it good but not sure if I'd say it's one of the best. I've only ever worked with an early serial number SH, not the modern version. Supposedly it's quite different. I'd rank it above the Manley Vari-Mus on AA and in line with the Alpha or the Stamchild MKII. Eventually we'll be able to use AA's Alpha without having to pay for the whole Magic Garden. That will be interesting. Getting back to the Fusion, I usually use it without Vintage Drive on. VD is not bad, I just don't feel like I need it. The way you set the Violet eq matters a lot. For the longest time I had been doing 30hz and 20khz. Lately it's been 50hz and 20khz. We'll see if I keep it there. Space I usually set at the first dot and put Width just below +2. With the HFC I usually have the not to far off from the far left position and the x-over set a little above 14k. Transformer I usually leave on because of the energy it gives. When it comes to the HPF, it's something I experiment with occasionally. Fusion is usually the first thing I'll have in a chain. Ah that's very interesting. I didn't mess with the fusion for too long on there because as you know, it costs money haha, and I was getting some really great sounds out of the Neve stuff. I'm sure if I had spent more time with it, I would've found a nice sweet spot on the drive. Overall, my quick impression was that any knob I messed with on the MBT just sounded good and did something musical, whereas when I played around with the fusion it felt like I could make it sound cool, but it took a lot longer to dial something in. Again, just my first impression. For the MBP, I used one of their presets and just fiddled with the attack and release a bit, added BLUE silk, and it made my mix immediately pop out of the screen like HD. It was like I was swimming in the rhythm all of the sudden. Maybe there are ways to make other compressors sound like that, but I haven't heard them. The blue silk added a crazy low end that wasn't even present in the track beforehand, I found it to be very pleasing to the ears. I did try the V9 Manley Comp too, which sounded very gluey like it made everything seem very soft in a pleasing way. It didn't quite give me that musicality and character that I found in the Neves, but that could also be because I only played with it for about 10 minutes. Have you decided what converter you're going to use long term? I'm not sure why exactly, but the same file I ran through Access Analog when checking out the Fusion last year sounded much cleaner when run through my Fusion and Aurora N with the same settings. Their Fusion was also hooked up to an Aurora N. Things sounded much cleaner on my equipment. Someone tried to scam me by selling me a "mint" broken Black Box and it too sounded a little different, cleaner as well maybe. The main tubes still worked but the alt tubes didn't, meters were busted and falling inside the case, one of the tube casings was loose inside, the air button was broken, and they had taken screws off the top and not put them back in. But I returned it before Klarna could charge me since the guy didn't want to cover the repair costs and nor did he have any insurance. Then he tried to tell Ebay that I broke it. But all our messages pointed to the opposite. I even told this guy to pack it with heavy padding in a heavy duty box. Instead he shipped it in a flimsy used box with no padding with the Black Box upside down. You have to really watch for scammers selling you broken stuff on Reverb and Ebay. Luckily I have Deltronics near me and they've been able to fix stuff. I had them talking to Josh at Stam about doing repairs. That could be helpful for Stam owners. All these pieces have a learning curve. They all have different chemistry with different devices. The Portico II can maybe do the most of the multi-function devices. You could probably just use that and plugins to get a good sound. It'd be good if someone with a WesAudio chain could run some stuff through it for you. Used Portico IIs are around $3500 last I checked. You could get a Titan with a couple things for that. At Access Analog, I preferred the Culture Vulture 15 over the Black Box. It was better at keeping your balance intact. But you couldn't do a lot with it before it was too much. Their SPL Vitalizer is quite good. Silver Bullet was really nice. The saturation from the Cranesong Hedd really makes that Magic Garden chain come to life. The free Daking comp is good as well but the thing has always been in use every time I've wanted to use it this year. There's still a lot that they have which I haven't tried. When I do try things, I'll do a 15-20 second snippet of a song. The only way to feasibly use Access Analog routinely is to get one of their unlimited subscriptions. They have one for $34.99 where you can use the Porticos unlimited. Eventually those will end up being occupied as much as the Daking I bet. |
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