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Post by drumsound on Dec 25, 2023 16:56:30 GMT -6
So, school me here. What’s the main point of using a Radar system? Are the converters that much better? Does it sound that much better? Are there comparable converters that you can use with a daw? Is the main purpose that it is a tape like workflow? I’m trying to figure out the benefits of using it when there are so many amazing sounding records that have been made using a traditional daw setup. When I had mine, it was to offer a digital option for clients that didn't want to buy tape. It served me well for many years and I loved the Session Controller. You can just go go go with it. It allowed for more 'delicate' editing than hacking tape and that was a bonus. But, as time moved on and different things were requested by clients I decided a DAW was the next logical step. Financially I couldn't go the RADAR ADA, and I ended up on an original Antelope Orion and have been happy with it. The biggest difference in sound I found was the upper mid 'softness' of the RADAR compared to a more lively upper midrange in the Orion. I still like the idea of the RADAR STUDIO that you can run like the stand alone RADAR and then go into DAW mode when necessary. |
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Post by audiospecific on Dec 25, 2023 19:29:30 GMT -6
The only real use for the application is for the capacitors is to slope the response. Otherwise its just another point of signal degradation. The best approach would be transformer coupling multi track inputs and DC coupled outputs, plus have two wide band inputs (from wider band transformers) for OTB mixing return. Also, if it has a switching power supply, I would put a linear in, most likely in a different or a full rack case and have better power as well. I do appreciate what they are doing for us: providing a system that isn't dependent on a consumer OS like macOS or Windows 1X. But they should get more input from people like me who have dealt with converters before they were used in this sector. Especially ones like me that recording is a hobby, but work in the industry as a sound tech. Burl asked me and others, why didn't them? Btw, it looks like the example circuit which only suppose to be a demonstration of the converter. I wouldn't buy a big SSL desk. I think the days of the console are over. I have looked at a new one because someone wanted my opinion, which was, they over complicated their power supply and wiring and didn't apply the correct connector technology when deploying it. Later I found out they began having power supply issues. It isn't hard to build a good mixing board. Just don't use that junk capacitor coupled mic pre circuit in front of it. Which is 99% of all those mic preamp/interfaces suffer from. Besides being connected to a computer that has an unsuitable switching power supply. The only thing I like is the buss compressor that sounds better than their rack mount, but I can make 10 of them for the price they want for 1.
OK, fair enough but my point wasn't to address different topology alternatives. I just pointed out that this is a 30-minute recap job (tops) so owners shouldn't be too concerned about it. Anyway, a happy holiday to you all!
You bet!
Its too out of my price range for a mod project. But that's just now......
Giving it a burl treatment might be cool. But without the color they have. Just super clean.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
I hope that fell on the correct eyes for them to see that there is more to it than the generic suggested circuit.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 25, 2023 22:06:09 GMT -6
So Studio works with all daws except logic: wtf ?  Workstation mode can run any DAW, excluding Logic. static1.squarespace.com/static/570d497dc2ea51b9b798fed7/t/5f63eaa827c2823bf0e29fd1/1600383656528/RADAR-Studio-brochure.pdfI've thought about radar more than once but I'd need to switch computers, maybe ?, ( I understand that studio has the pc built in), apparently daws, no logic, get the radar system and a controller or use keyboard/mouse to start, seems like a lot of money ? I started the thread as someone locally is selling the base chassis for like $450 cdn, so was curious what the least expensive way of trying radar might be, but after buying a card even used and a decent pc computer, not a cheap demo option. if anyone is interested in the link let me know. I have a buddie that upgraded his non-DAW Radar system to a radar studio a few years ago so he could record right to pro tools. They set him up with a Windows 8 computer and apparently he can’t upgrade beyond Win 8 without basically getting another fully upgraded system. I’d tread with caution personally. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2023 3:52:11 GMT -6
Ya, demoing radar would be interesting and I’m not questioning its pedigree, but I’d basically need to change everything for small improvement in sound quality vs my Aurora: I’d rather buy outboard! |
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Post by Quint on Dec 26, 2023 8:21:45 GMT -6
I get the appeal of the traditional Radar setup with a dedicated remote and meter bridge, for a tape like workflow, but you can essentially create the same thing with a standard keyboard and/or a Stream Deck and/or a standard hardware controller and/or an iPad, depending on what part(s) of the Radar remote you are trying to replicate. Put it all on a little roll around cart if you must. Then use your computer and DAW of choice, without limitation.
In other words, though I get the elegance of the all in one remote/meter bridge and associated computer, I think I'd be leaning towards getting the standalone cards and chassis these days, if I was going after the Radar sound. IZ themselves seem to have made the calculation that this is what people want these days so, even if you still preferred the old school all in one hardware system, IZ doesn't seem as interested anymore in continuing that idea.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 14:11:26 GMT -6
So Studio works with all daws except logic: wtf ? Workstation mode can run any DAW, excluding Logic. static1.squarespace.com/static/570d497dc2ea51b9b798fed7/t/5f63eaa827c2823bf0e29fd1/1600383656528/RADAR-Studio-brochure.pdfI've thought about radar more than once but I'd need to switch computers, maybe ?, ( I understand that studio has the pc built in), apparently daws, no logic, get the radar system and a controller or use keyboard/mouse to start, seems like a lot of money ? I started the thread as someone locally is selling the base chassis for like $450 cdn, so was curious what the least expensive way of trying radar might be, but after buying a card even used and a decent pc computer, not a cheap demo option. if anyone is interested in the link let me know. Logic doesn’t work on Windows, so yeah logic won’t run on a windows based system unless your running some kind of virtual machine, just like it won’t run on my windows 11 laptop. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 14:15:15 GMT -6
So Studio works with all daws except logic: wtf ? Workstation mode can run any DAW, excluding Logic. static1.squarespace.com/static/570d497dc2ea51b9b798fed7/t/5f63eaa827c2823bf0e29fd1/1600383656528/RADAR-Studio-brochure.pdfI've thought about radar more than once but I'd need to switch computers, maybe ?, ( I understand that studio has the pc built in), apparently daws, no logic, get the radar system and a controller or use keyboard/mouse to start, seems like a lot of money ? I started the thread as someone locally is selling the base chassis for like $450 cdn, so was curious what the least expensive way of trying radar might be, but after buying a card even used and a decent pc computer, not a cheap demo option. if anyone is interested in the link let me know. I have a buddie that upgraded his non-DAW Radar system to a radar studio a few years ago so he could record right to pro tools. They set him up with a Windows 8 computer and apparently he can’t upgrade beyond Win 8 without basically getting another fully upgraded system. I’d tread with caution personally. Yeah I don’t think anyone involved with IZ realized how often other DAW’s are updated or how often these are dependent upon an OS update. In the world of closed loop RADAR mine is still on BE and the idea of adopting windows is what keeps me from the SD card upgrade. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 14:25:45 GMT -6
Still Using my RADAR here...Had it new since 2004 and in 2015 upgraded the chassis to the "RADAR Studio". The classic cards went right into the new chassis and still going today.
I like that it doesn't run a junk consumer OS.
The only thing I would have different is linear power supplies separate from the box. Because many switching power supplies don't meet my level of criteria for audio.
Well since the death of BE, it’s been windows based, hence the ability to run other Windows DAW on Radar studio. It’s a PC a dedicated build but a PC, the PSU is a fairly well regarded PC power supply ( that’s what my old school PC guys tell me) it is a bit finicky about PSU swaps. While I agree an outboard regulated supply would probably be an improvement, it’s not what RADAR is about, it’s a single chassis all in one box DAW. You can operate a Studio from the touch screen, but a monitor and controller are easier. I love the controller, a 5 year old can operate it, it’s built like a tank. My only bitch is that they made it bigger than rack width so for a road case you need a custom cut foam remote holder and a case deep enough to hold it side ways or a very expensive custom case. |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 26, 2023 16:21:35 GMT -6
If I'm not mistaken, after many long talks with Barry, one of the main reasons Radar sounded so good, was its power supply?
As far as I'm concerned, the Radar Studio, with the ability to run other programs sucks!
As Eric, and probably others have mentioned, the "Beos" operating system was the shit.
THAT SET RADAR APART FROM ALL THE OTHER CRAP OUT THERE.
At the moment, my favorite machines are my Radar 6's with the Super Nyquist convertors, but I'd be just as happy with the Classic conversion!
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Post by spindrift on Dec 26, 2023 16:25:41 GMT -6
If you got a RADAR Studio, you’d be stuck on Windows 8 and you better unplug it from the internet becuase updates just take it that much further out of support. And DAWs move on from older OS versions. The RADAR software was re-written for Windows and is not as stable as the old BeOS versions in the 24/V/VI . Again, all reasons I had my RADAR Studio converted to a very nice RADAR VI (6).
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 16:43:17 GMT -6
If I'm not mistaken, after many long talks with Barry, one of the main reasons Radar sounded so good, was its power supply? As far as I'm concerned, the Radar Studio, with the ability to run other programs sucks! As Eric, and probably others have mentioned, the "Beos" operating system was the shit. THAT SET RADAR APART FROM ALL THE OTHER CRAP OUT THERE. At the moment, my favorite machines are my Radar 6's with the Super Nyquist convertors, but I'd be just as happy with the Classic conversion! Yeah but BEOS means old SCISI drives or using it as converters, working drives are getting hard to find! |
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 17:00:46 GMT -6
If I'm not mistaken, after many long talks with Barry, one of the main reasons Radar sounded so good, was its power supply? As far as I'm concerned, the Radar Studio, with the ability to run other programs sucks! As Eric, and probably others have mentioned, the "Beos" operating system was the shit. THAT SET RADAR APART FROM ALL THE OTHER CRAP OUT THERE. At the moment, my favorite machines are my Radar 6's with the Super Nyquist convertors, but I'd be just as happy with the Classic conversion! The power supply is definitely an above average PC power supply, I used to have a picture and notes on it on my phone because I would use them in both audio and video desktops. However if you really want an affordable “ mod” for the RADAR put it on a dedicated 15 amp Furman voltage regulator. It just sings. |
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Post by spindrift on Dec 26, 2023 17:16:59 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 17:39:36 GMT -6
And I keep looking at them at least once a week! |
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Post by audiospecific on Dec 26, 2023 18:02:49 GMT -6
I like that it doesn't run a junk consumer OS.
The only thing I would have different is linear power supplies separate from the box. Because many switching power supplies don't meet my level of criteria for audio.
Well since the death of BE, it’s been windows based, hence the ability to run other Windows DAW on Radar studio. It’s a PC a dedicated build but a PC, the PSU is a fairly well regarded PC power supply ( that’s what my old school PC guys tell me) it is a bit finicky about PSU swaps. While I agree an outboard regulated supply would probably be an improvement, it’s not what RADAR is about, it’s a single chassis all in one box DAW. You can operate a Studio from the touch screen, but a monitor and controller are easier. I love the controller, a 5 year old can operate it, it’s built like a tank. My only bitch is that they made it bigger than rack width so for a road case you need a custom cut foam remote holder and a case deep enough to hold it side ways or a very expensive custom case.
I'm glad I didn't buy it because I would be disappointed. I don't move around stuff and remote record from other's PA. But I do have Dante Virtual soundcard on a laptop and reaper. So no matter what, I'm not going to get the old school protools hardware mixer and I minus well upgrade the computer if I want it powerful. My current computer is running 2 Power-one linear supplies and I don't have issues. Funny thing is I've been collecting cards that people dump online because their power in their computer is their problem. The most interesting one of the bunch is this 2x2 EMU card that isn't really a pro card but has all the pro stuff in it and its DC coupled on top of that. I was actually impressed by it. Then I stuck it in a prefab HP that was in another room and it was very noisy. Know wonder I got it for $20. I'll be getting a linear PC power supply because they started to make them. However, they are a very hot item because chan-tech switching power supplies are bad for audio: hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-500w-atx-linear-power-supply-with-modular-atx-output.html
I also found out all the firewire issues I had in the past was from those chan-tech switching power supplies.
I built a computer for a guy a few years back with linear power supplies and I installed a 1st generation Dante card, loaded windows 2003 server, and his copy of Reaper. Analog loop test was 2.5ms of latency.
It got me interested with Dante, but the software version is 8ms of latency on my computer that I currently run with Harrison Desk or Reaper with.
Controller, I have one of those X-touch and it works fine. The only thing I should do is map the midisys exclusive commands that change the color. Behringer is not so forthcoming with it since I think that they didn't want people to know they are running midi control over ethernet with that. A lot of those controllers are running a form of midi framing. Even those AVID ones that they locked the hardware driver from talking to other programs.
So I will have to get a super nice video card and since I run Windows server on my machine, it has to be a very high end one because the gaming ones people use will not install because they are not stable hardware timed drivers and the OS will refuse hardware if it doesn't have hardware timing stated in its drivers and when it checks the timing, it better be correct or else it doesn't work. The positive thing about it is, I didn't have the video card latency os issues people were complaining about.
S0 my 128x128 Dante PCIE card came out. A little disappointed it having a fan. I'm going to have to hit up my overclocking enthusiast machinist guy that hits me up from time to time about electronics, or see if Zalman will make or have a passive cooling solution (because it looks like a video card heatsink)
Its just now that it is up to buying a computer to upgrade from an Athalon FX/ PCIe 2.0 machine to a current PCIe 5/ intel I7 and the DDR5 instead of DDR3 ram
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