|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 19, 2023 2:27:25 GMT -6
Personally, I don’t think any of use should be monitoring on a regular basis with SPL’s above 77 to 79db (C weighted slow)
Yes, occasional “impress the client/ wife/ studio cat” loud playback is fun and ok for a few minutes long term it will bigger your hearing!
My issue with my 0300’s (aside from Sennhesier’s utterly abysmal attitude to servicing the gear they sell) was I found the mids too soft - too polite - as to be a useful mix tool.
I demoed some 310’s and found that same soft polite mids to be essentially the same - it makes for a very pleasant listening experience but that mid range for me is where 90% of mix issues and important details in a mix exist.
If someone can adjust to it/ compensate for it then volume was never an issue for me with my 0300’s.
For me personally, it’s the mids that ATC have mastered in their three way monitors - their “marquee” and reputation is THAT mid driver.
The mid driver on an 0300 is £55 driver
On an ATC 25 it’s a £550 driver.
Money isn’t always the barometer of quality but when it comes to physical engineering. It usual is.
Bass and tweeters - well take your pick - it’s a taste thing.
Mids are, imho, absolutely critical in defining monitors as mix tools.
When I’m auditioning monitors it’s the detail and resolution of the mids that is the defining factor.
|
|
|
|
Post by noob on Dec 19, 2023 8:41:15 GMT -6
I'm gonna chime in here just because I spent the entire last few years trying to upgrade my mains, so maybe something I say will be useful to someone. I think what it comes down to is how they are being used and what nearfields you are pairing them with. If your main mixing monitors are not going to change and/or you are just planning on using these for production/recording, aka you just want a bigger, more "fun" monitor system, then there are literally infinite options out there. If you want something that is actually going to translate and be accurate, the ballpark obviously narrows a lot. If you are planning on having a system where say you are using NS10's, but you want a bigger system to get a better look at the low end, hear the extension and the air on the track, then I would suggest a system with a more accurate low end. For me, that would be either ATC's or some kind of passive audiophile setup, paired with a sub that you can turn on or off. If you just want a "fun" main system and you're not as worried about accuracy (you're already getting great mixes on your current setup), then something like Barfoot's would be awesome too. Those things will definitely hype you up. However, for your current needs, in terms of mixing Jazz and Rock, I would suggest something a bit more passive like Amphion Two15. For example, right now I have 3 monitors in my studio - Amphion One15's w a JW modded Adcom, which are amazing. Active CLA-10s, the best [active] grots you can get imo. And JBL 4311's paired with a CLA-200 amp, these are my "mains," paired with a sub, crossed over at 50-ish-hz. The JBL 4311's are vintage, so there are some things to think about with that setup, but man, these things just sound amazing. For production mode, I flick on the sub and my room immediately sounds like a big ass recording studio. And to my surprise, they translate really well (I don't mix with the sub on) and have given me a better understanding of my mixes. I'm not telling you to go out and buy some JBL 4311's, because there are some issues, especially if you want "perfection", these are not that, the stereo field is kind of weird with them both being "left" side monitors. However, I think the idea I'm trying to relay is, you don't have to go with some brand spanking new monitor to get the feel of a major studio. In fact, if I could have found some Quested, maybe I would have gone with those. I think there are a lot of options out there once you start to look at the passive speakers, and in the "audiophile" (such a weird word), category of speakers. I've seen a lot of mastering engineers with these types of "audiophile" setups. These types of systems just always sound more accurate and authentic to the sound for me than the active counterparts (with ATC as a big exception). Active setups can be amazing too, especially if you're making more electronic and club type of music, but I decided to go old school and was not disappointed  . All this is to say, if you're at $5k and you want a really great setup that's extremely accurate and amazing, and you don't already have Amphions, I would check out the Amphion Two15's which are around $4,400. Buy a great amp and a decent sub to go with them. You would absolutely love them, if you are looking for accuracy, detail, and translation. |
|
|
|
Post by sean on Dec 19, 2023 8:59:50 GMT -6
As much as a certain subset of the internet poo poo's SMD components, it's just a reality. The 5534 op-amp is now at it's "end of life" and it's the most widely used op-amp in audio since the 70's. And SMD components are replaceable if you are willing to do it...hell I've done it!
And, like most forms of internet criticism, especially of large companies, most people are only going to take the time to comment about a negative experience. If you go to McDonalds are you going to go on Yelp and write "the fries are good!". No. But if you're fries are burnt you might go and write "this McDonald's sucks". And, even though there are thousands of people who are happy and satisfied and never had an issue, you can only read about the things that went wrong.
So, as much as it hurts when parts for a product are discontinued, it's just the reality of everything. Even ATC SCM25A had to be redesigned because the OEM tweeter was discontinued. If you blow a tweeter in the original good luck finding one. You'll likely be in a situation like a lot of people with older monitors with you buy one just to use for spare parts.
Neumann will still service microphones that are 70 years old, but I really don't think it's unreasonable for them not to have an inventory of parts to service a speaker from a company they acquired 13 years ago.
PMC, Adam, JBL, KRK all have dozens of models of speakers that are not as old as the original 0300's that are not longer repairable or serviced...most of them significantly more expensive than those cost.
Best advice is just try and listen in your environment. I've had everything from PMC IB2S's to ATC SCM25A and SCM12's to NS10's and Auratones in my space and the Neumann's just work for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 19, 2023 9:35:56 GMT -6
As much as a certain subset of the internet poo poo's SMD components, it's just a reality. The 5534 op-amp is now at it's "end of life" and it's the most widely used op-amp in audio since the 70's. And SMD components are replaceable if you are willing to do it...hell I've done it! And, like most forms of internet criticism, especially of large companies, most people are only going to take the time to comment about a negative experience. If you go to McDonalds are you going to go on Yelp and write "the fries are good!". No. But if you're fries are burnt you might go and write "this McDonald's sucks". And, even though there are thousands of people who are happy and satisfied and never had an issue, you can only read about the things that went wrong. So, as much as it hurts when parts for a product are discontinued, it's just the reality of everything. Even ATC SCM25A had to be redesigned because the OEM tweeter was discontinued. If you blow a tweeter in the original good luck finding one. You'll likely be in a situation like a lot of people with older monitors with you buy one just to use for spare parts. Neumann will still service microphones that are 70 years old, but I really don't think it's unreasonable for them not to have an inventory of parts to service a speaker from a company they acquired 13 years ago. PMC, Adam, JBL, KRK all have dozens of models of speakers that are not as old as the original 0300's that are not longer repairable or serviced...most of them significantly more expensive than those cost. Best advice is just try and listen in your environment. I've had everything from PMC IB2S's to ATC SCM25A and SCM12's to NS10's and Auratones in my space and the Neumann's just work for me. My 0300 issue was NOT a parts issue. It was simply a shitty commercial decision by Sennheiser - totally different situation - they could of repaired my 0300. Fact. ATC 25's MK1. ATC have very significant stocks of the VIFA tweeter - based on known failure rates they can take care of customers (I was told for many, many years!) after that they will certainly provide alternative options to keep you going (they always do) - a totally different type of company. And of course switching to the in house tweeter quickly was a positive forward thinking commercial decision - it preserves their stock of VIFA tweeters to be able to maintain MK1's sold and in the field. As it happens, I personally prefer the VIFA tweeter so I bought 8 VIFA tweeters to store so I'm good - though I've never (touch wood) ever blown a tweeter. |
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 19, 2023 10:15:26 GMT -6
Not using this as any definitive statement or whatever and I have no idea of the quality of the testing on this website, but I am posting this link just to illustrate that there are other world's where the 310's are the local favorite and not the local target. Point is, take it all with a grain of salt. I think the 310's sound great in my room and I like that the bass is understated. That's exactly why I wanted a sealed box instead of ported bass. I guess I could probably push them to the point of overdrive but why would I do that and under what circumstances? I'm mixing on these, not throwing studio parties. Also, I think what Dan is actually saying is that he fears that Neumann will cheap out on a (as yet purely hypothetical) MKii of these monitors and use "more headroom" as cover for it. Maybe, maybe not. But for now these things have been cranking 10 hours a day in probably hundreds studios across the world and everyone seems just fine. If mine last 10 - 15 years I think that'll be a good ROI for a $5k spend. ASR nerds love the 310's. www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/studio-monitors-dynaudio-core-47-vs-neumann-kh310.32866/ |
|
|
|
Post by noob on Dec 19, 2023 10:26:49 GMT -6
From what I heard in my demos, I'd take Amphion Two15's over KH310, and ATC 25's over both. KH310's are great, but the Amphions are just so incredibly precise, clear and accurate, extremely defined transients. They make detailed work very easy. KH310 sound great too btw if you are used to that sound, my ears just work better with the Amphions. They are much more "real" sounding imo.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 19, 2023 10:40:56 GMT -6
From what I heard in my demos, I'd take Amphion Two15's over KH310, and ATC 25's over both. KH310's are great, but the Amphions are just so incredibly precise, clear and accurate, extremely defined transients. They make detailed work very easy. KH310 sound great too btw if you are used to that sound, my ears just work better with the Amphions. They are much more "real" sounding imo. I have a buddy with a studio in town who uses the Amphion Two15's. They sound great in there. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 11:20:43 GMT -6
Not using this as any definitive statement or whatever and I have no idea of the quality of the testing on this website, but I am posting this link just to illustrate that there are other world's where the 310's are the local favorite and not the local target. Point is, take it all with a grain of salt. I think the 310's sound great in my room and I like that the bass is understated. That's exactly why I wanted a sealed box instead of ported bass. I guess I could probably push them to the point of overdrive but why would I do that and under what circumstances? I'm mixing on these, not throwing studio parties. Also, I think what Dan is actually saying is that he fears that Neumann will cheap out on a (as yet purely hypothetical) MKii of these monitors and use "more headroom" as cover for it. Maybe, maybe not. But for now these things have been cranking 10 hours a day in probably hundreds studios across the world and everyone seems just fine. If mine last 10 - 15 years I think that'll be a good ROI for a $5k spend. ASR nerds love the 310's. www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/studio-monitors-dynaudio-core-47-vs-neumann-kh310.32866/Sennhesier (these are not made by Neumann. Neumann is just the branding. They used to be made by Sennheiser Ireland after moving production from Germany. I think they are made somewhere in Central Europe now) will take an acceptable if rather hohum monitor that used to sell for 1200-1500 new a pair, cheap out the amps to something truly unrepairable, change the crossover for more bass and volume for "producers" rather than professionals, worsen the midrange because people like the gamers on ASR (most posters there do not really know what they are doing and are basically PC gamers judging gear by specs like the old school overclock forums) want easier to listen to hifi speakers. 300 USD for a pair of disposable nearfields that will last 6-18 months or even for just one recording or mixing project is something most can bite on. 6000 USD or whatever Sennheiser will charge for the refresh of the KH310 is not. They will discontinue service on their previously mechanically fine monitors. They have rubber surrounds and limiters on everything so breaking them physically is difficult. Only the SMT plateamps can give out and Sennheiser will not provide your tech the info needed to fix them. In contrast, JBL, Kali, and most PA manufacturers just tell you what the exact electronic crossover settings are for their externally amped active speakers so you can use anything you want should the provided amplifier die or be discontinued. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 11:21:13 GMT -6
So? I have to mix on them not drool over hypothetical self imposed benchmarks. Don't get me wrong I find some of the information rather useful (usually in regards to obvious design flaws like resonance, lack of directional balance causing sweet spot or imaging issues etc.) but the interaction with me, my room and the decisions that said monitors lead to are more important. Also there is an element of adaption to this entire thing.
Also the Core 59's are quite a bit different the 47's and one of the biggest issues is lack of waveguides etc. however I guess Dynaudio expects a professional product to be used in at least a semi professional room. I'm not sure ATC or PSI would fair much better, in fact due to lack of DSP they'd most likely be worse. Neumann & Genelec offer decent solutions to less than ideal environments which is cool and in some situations an absolute necessity but in others it matters less. Informative for sure but not the core factor in my decision making process, if it was then I'd have bought the Genelec's as they score better than the Neumann's.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 11:24:19 GMT -6
So? I have to mix on them not drool over hypothetical self imposed benchmarks. Don't get me wrong I find some of the information rather useful (usually in regards to obvious design flaws like resonance, lack of directional balance causing sweet spot or imaging issues etc.) but the interaction with me, my room and the decisions that said monitors lead to are more important. Also there is an element of adaption to this entire thing.
Also the Core 59's are quite a bit different the 47's and one of the biggest issues is lack of waveguides etc. however I guess Dynaudio expects a professional product to be used in at least a semi professional room. I'm not sure ATC or PSI would fair much better, in fact due to lack of DSP they'd most likely be worse. Neumann & Genelec offer decent solutions to less than ideal environments which is cool and in some situations an absolute necessity but in others it matters less. Informative for sure but not the core factor in my decision making process, if it was then I'd have bought the Genelec's as they score better than the Neumann's.
the main guy is a former microsoft exec and harman dealer with decades long vendettas against people across forums, some defunct, and he tests monitors literally by buying one and measuring it in his horrible room with a klippel (not even outside) and an ungrounded ap analyzer. He doesn't even buy a pair of speakers designed for stereo use with separate left and right models...
the lack of horn waveguides is good. it means dynaudio cannot cross the woofer over to the hornflare of a piece of plastic and have to cross it over to a mechanical tweeter. it means they must have a real crossover rather than a shitty one. dynaudio did the weird crossovers with the lyd series but the core line looks like they went back to the bm type crossovers on paper
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 19, 2023 11:25:32 GMT -6
So? I have to mix on them not drool over hypothetical self imposed benchmarks. Don't get me wrong I find some of the information rather useful (usually in regards to obvious design flaws like resonance, lack of directional balance causing sweet spot or imaging issues etc.) but the interaction with me, my room and the decisions that said monitors lead to are more important. Also there is an element of adaption to this entire thing.
Also the Core 59's are quite a bit different the 47's and one of the biggest issues is lack of waveguides etc. however I guess Dynaudio expects a professional product to be used in at least a semi professional room. I'm not sure ATC or PSI would fair much better, in fact due to lack of DSP they'd most likely be worse. Neumann & Genelec offer decent solutions to less than ideal environments which is cool and in some situations an absolute necessity but in others it matters less. Informative for sure but not the core factor in my decision making process, if it was then I'd have bought the Genelec's as they score better than the Neumann's.
Yeah it's not an endorsement. Just pointing out that different corners of the internet world have their pet loves. For example the Dynaudio LYD 48's are a favorite on this site, the 310's are a favorite on others. Just kinda how it works. |
|
|
|
Post by noob on Dec 19, 2023 11:35:21 GMT -6
Not to derail anything, but I feel like as a buyer I'd be much more concerned with how speakers sound. I think you could argue all day about the ins and outs of the different corporate operations, but how do they sound? How do they translate? How do they work in non-large format studios? That's what I would care about first and foremost.
|
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Dec 19, 2023 11:58:43 GMT -6
Not using this as any definitive statement or whatever and I have no idea of the quality of the testing on this website, but I am posting this link just to illustrate that there are other world's where the 310's are the local favorite and not the local target. Point is, take it all with a grain of salt. I think the 310's sound great in my room and I like that the bass is understated. That's exactly why I wanted a sealed box instead of ported bass. I guess I could probably push them to the point of overdrive but why would I do that and under what circumstances? I'm mixing on these, not throwing studio parties. Also, I think what Dan is actually saying is that he fears that Neumann will cheap out on a (as yet purely hypothetical) MKii of these monitors and use "more headroom" as cover for it. Maybe, maybe not. But for now these things have been cranking 10 hours a day in probably hundreds studios across the world and everyone seems just fine. If mine last 10 - 15 years I think that'll be a good ROI for a $5k spend. ASR nerds love the 310's. www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/studio-monitors-dynaudio-core-47-vs-neumann-kh310.32866/Sennhesier (these are not made by Neumann. Neumann is just the branding. They used to be made by Sennheiser Ireland after moving production from Germany. I think they are made somewhere in Central Europe now) will take an acceptable if rather hohum monitor that used to sell for 1200-1500 new a pair, cheap out the amps to something truly unrepairable, change the crossover for more bass and volume for "producers" rather than professionals, worsen the midrange because people like the gamers on ASR (most posters there do not really know what they are doing and are basically PC gamers judging gear by specs like the old school overclock forums) want easier to listen to hifi speakers. 300 USD for a pair of disposable nearfields that will last 6-18 months or even for just one recording or mixing project is something most can bite on. 6000 USD or whatever Sennheiser will charge for the refresh of the KH310 is not. They will discontinue service on their previously mechanically fine monitors. They have rubber surrounds and limiters on everything so breaking them physically is difficult. Only the SMT plateamps can give out and Sennheiser will not provide your tech the info needed to fix them. In contrast, JBL, Kali, and most PA manufacturers just tell you what the exact electronic crossover settings are for their externally amped active speakers so you can use anything you want should the provided amplifier die or be discontinued. But, in fairness, everything you're talking about here is about what you speculate Sennheiser/Neumann "might" do with the KH310 in the future, and nothing to do with what the KH310 IS TODAY. And this thread was about buying monitors TODAY. If someone buys a pair of KH310s today, Sennheiser can't, sometime next year or whenever else in the future, sneak into their studio while they're asleep and swap out the plate amps on their KH310s. To be clear, I'm not trying to turn this into an argument. I'm just trying to understand what you think is wrong with the KH310 design/construction TODAY. Let's leave speculation about the future out of the discussion. It's moot. |
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Dec 19, 2023 12:05:11 GMT -6
Yeah it's not an endorsement. Just pointing out that different corners of the internet world have their pet loves. For example the Dynaudio LYD 48's are a favorite on this site, the 310's are a favorite on others. Just kinda how it works. there seems to be a bit of self purchase bias or defence here. I'm not precious about the Core's,
No offense, but it seems like you're doing exactly that with the Core 59s. That link Gravesnumber posted wasn't even comparing to the Core 59. It was about a comparison to the Core 47, but you made it about the Core 59s for some reason. Nobody was talking about the Core 59s. Bottom line, we all made monitor choices based on our own criteria, and there's not really a need to defend it one way or the other. But it would be nice for everyone to at least keep things objective, at least for those parts of this discussion that can be objective, monitor preferences being inherently prone to subjectivity and all that. If people want to slag a particular monitor for objective reasons, such as serious design or performance flaws or poor customer service/repair policies, cool, I'll listen, at least for a minute, if not longer. But if a particular monitor is getting slagged for completely subjective reasons, such as how hard or soft the upper midrange might be or if it doesn't have enough bass, I'm not going to pay a whole lot of attention to those inherently subjective comments, at least not without some large grains of salt. Within this thread, I'm just trying to determine who/what I should even be paying attention to. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 12:13:29 GMT -6
there seems to be a bit of self purchase bias or defence here. I'm not precious about the Core's,
No offense, but it seems like you're doing exactly that with the Core 59s. That link Gravesnumber posted wasn't even comparing to the Core 59. It was about the Core 47, but you made it about the Core 59s for some reason. Nobody was talking about the Core 59s. One does need a reference point Quint and they are my current monitors thus I shall use them as one. The reason is if you know about the design of the 47's they do share some outlaying product decisions across the entirety of the range. I've read that review and some of it seems a bit off, anyway it really doesn't matter does it?
Ultimately I keep stating that the LYD's are not a barrier to great end results and I personally believe the KH310's are "better". So, whatever. Also no offence taken at all, this is just a regular text based conversation to me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 12:20:37 GMT -6
Sennhesier (these are not made by Neumann. Neumann is just the branding. They used to be made by Sennheiser Ireland after moving production from Germany. I think they are made somewhere in Central Europe now) will take an acceptable if rather hohum monitor that used to sell for 1200-1500 new a pair, cheap out the amps to something truly unrepairable, change the crossover for more bass and volume for "producers" rather than professionals, worsen the midrange because people like the gamers on ASR (most posters there do not really know what they are doing and are basically PC gamers judging gear by specs like the old school overclock forums) want easier to listen to hifi speakers. 300 USD for a pair of disposable nearfields that will last 6-18 months or even for just one recording or mixing project is something most can bite on. 6000 USD or whatever Sennheiser will charge for the refresh of the KH310 is not. They will discontinue service on their previously mechanically fine monitors. They have rubber surrounds and limiters on everything so breaking them physically is difficult. Only the SMT plateamps can give out and Sennheiser will not provide your tech the info needed to fix them. In contrast, JBL, Kali, and most PA manufacturers just tell you what the exact electronic crossover settings are for their externally amped active speakers so you can use anything you want should the provided amplifier die or be discontinued. But, in fairness, everything you're talking about here is about what you speculate Sennheiser/Neumann "might" do with the KH310 in the future, and nothing to do with what the KH310 IS TODAY. And this thread was about buying monitors TODAY. If someone buys a pair of KH310s today, Sennheiser can't, sometime next year or whenever else in the future, sneak into their studio while they're asleep and swap out the plate amps on their KH310s. To be clear, I'm not trying to turn this into an argument. I'm just trying to understand what you think is wrong with the KH310 design/construction TODAY. Let's leave speculation about the future out of the discussion. It's moot. they WILL do it with all of their monitors one by one. they have been doing it. you are going to see plate amps with silicone goop all over them soon. the older models will slowly have their service discontinued as the warranties expire. these things should last way beyond the warranty period with simple recapping if the tweeters don't burn out. the tweeters dying is what happened to all of the yamaha msp monitors 10-20 years later which were otherwise tanks. |
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Dec 19, 2023 12:27:54 GMT -6
Ok. Let's move on (or at least I am moving on). My purchase was made nearly a year ago, and I'm not seeing anything here in this thread that would make me consider switching course (not that I was looking to be convinced to switch anyway). I mostly just entered the conversation because I was curious about some of the comments surrounding the KH310s, especially since some seemed to be pretty subjectively negative. But now this has kind of devolved into everyone just heading to their own corner.
Everybody use whatever monitors make them happy.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 19, 2023 12:31:06 GMT -6
No offense, but it seems like you're doing exactly that with the Core 59s. That link Gravesnumber posted wasn't even comparing to the Core 59. It was about the Core 47, but you made it about the Core 59s for some reason. Nobody was talking about the Core 59s. One does need a reference point Quint and they are my current monitors thus I shall use them as one. The reason is if you know about the design of the 47's they do share some outlaying product decisions across the entirety of the range. I've read that review and some of it seems a bit off, anyway it really doesn't matter does it?
Ultimately I keep stating that the LYD's are not a barrier to great end results and I personally believe the KH310's are "better". So, whatever. Also no offence taken at all, this is just a regular text based conversation to me.
Honestly I'm not doing the self-purchase bias thing. Just wanting to make sure the OP keeps in mind that different places have their different pets. I wouldn't ask Ward about his opinion on the SM7b for example! But to take it from other sites the SM7b is the greatest mic ever invented. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 13:36:10 GMT -6
One does need a reference point Quint and they are my current monitors thus I shall use them as one. The reason is if you know about the design of the 47's they do share some outlaying product decisions across the entirety of the range. I've read that review and some of it seems a bit off, anyway it really doesn't matter does it?
Ultimately I keep stating that the LYD's are not a barrier to great end results and I personally believe the KH310's are "better". So, whatever. Also no offence taken at all, this is just a regular text based conversation to me.
Honestly I'm not doing the self-purchase bias thing. Just wanting to make sure the OP keeps in mind that different places have their different pets. I wouldn't ask Ward about his opinion on the SM7b for example! But to take it from other sites the SM7b is the greatest mic ever invented. I know, even though I quoted you  . Generally if something is, in the long term, popular there's generally some merit to them so I agree, I'm like Ward though I don't get the SM7..
My point has always been in a roundabout way there's quite a bit to think about when choosing monitors like longevity, practicality, overall performance, room integration, cost, extra goodies etc. etc. and each factor is worth considering but every individual will place their own importance on said factors. Longevity has never been my primary goal, chances are in about 5 years you will see a set of PSI A23's on my desk (maybe 8c's?). Actually knowing me they'll probably be a big pair of ATC's for some pointless reason..
Anyway, it's difficult and one has to nit pick a bit more at this level or above to give advice but ultimately it's in the hands of the OP and the only real way to know is to try them based on their own criteria. Doesn't do much for an in depth conversation though. Anyway, I'm perfectly fine with my setup with no real need for anything else so it was fun to chime in at least.
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 19, 2023 13:42:25 GMT -6
I'm not sure about the project studio world - but I've seen ATC monitors in more commercial studios than I've had hot dinners.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 13:48:56 GMT -6
I'm not sure about the project studio world - but I've seen ATC monitors in more commercial studios than I've had hot dinners. Weirdly in most professional outfits I've seen over here it's either Geithain, Genelec or Proac. The amount of broadcast, film or studio's that use these was pretty high but I did a lot of metal so I was bound to constantly run into Genelec and Adam (more so Genelec). A couple of the high end studio's I've visited used ATC but unfortunately most have closed down, actually one of the cheap ATC pairs I found was from a recently defunct studio. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 19, 2023 16:35:02 GMT -6
One does need a reference point Quint and they are my current monitors thus I shall use them as one. The reason is if you know about the design of the 47's they do share some outlaying product decisions across the entirety of the range. I've read that review and some of it seems a bit off, anyway it really doesn't matter does it?
Ultimately I keep stating that the LYD's are not a barrier to great end results and I personally believe the KH310's are "better". So, whatever. Also no offence taken at all, this is just a regular text based conversation to me.
Honestly I'm not doing the self-purchase bias thing. Just wanting to make sure the OP keeps in mind that different places have their different pets. I wouldn't ask Ward about his opinion on the SM7b for example! But to take it from other sites the SM7b is the greatest mic ever invented. Isn't that the most godawful thing?  The Shure SM7B was designed as a broadcast 57 without an output transformer cos it was going into a Midas (and other) console/broadcast consoles and made to be the mic for this eejits who eat the mic . . . and no concern about quality of sound. What is it good for? Guide vocal |
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Dec 19, 2023 18:43:33 GMT -6
Not to derail anything, but I feel like as a buyer I'd be much more concerned with how speakers sound. I think you could argue all day about the ins and outs of the different corporate operations, but how do they sound? How do they translate? How do they work in non-large format studios? That's what I would care about first and foremost. This. This is all that really matters. And to find the answers you kinda gotta get off your ass and into stores & other peoples studios so you can hear things for yourself. My favorite rhetorical question - Why is it that if every speaker builder says their boxes have a flat response, why do they all sound so damn different??? Stop and think about that for a minute. Just about everything from $500 to $5k claims to have a flat, uncolored response. Yet get a half dozen things side by side and that is very clearly NOT the case. Even a five year old can hear it. And so we all have personal preferences. And we all work on different kinds of music in different rooms which may (or may not) reinforce our own preferences. Its such an individual thing. And to that point just for giggles I'll admit again like I have many times over that I don't really dig Adam monitors. Lotta people love 'em but I'm not one of 'em. Something about their general voicing, across the line doesn't really work with however my ear > brain connection is wired. To me their great for general listening and I'm kinda ok with them as "tracking speakers" for long days with playback a wee bit louder then I'd like... but I simply can't mix with them. Not well anyway. They don't translate... like the top end isn't quite there or the bottom octaves end up mushy. That doesn't mean I'm gonna blast off & trash 'em. They don't work for me but they do for a lotta people and ya know what? That's great! Its great that we have variety. Could you imagine if we all had to wear the same shoes? Life would be pretty miserable. But me? I'd rather be happy then right any day. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 20:57:51 GMT -6
Not to derail anything, but I feel like as a buyer I'd be much more concerned with how speakers sound. I think you could argue all day about the ins and outs of the different corporate operations, but how do they sound? How do they translate? How do they work in non-large format studios? That's what I would care about first and foremost. But me? I'd rather be happy then right any day. Well, that's the key to many an issue. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 21, 2023 12:47:51 GMT -6
Not to derail anything, but I feel like as a buyer I'd be much more concerned with how speakers sound. I think you could argue all day about the ins and outs of the different corporate operations, but how do they sound? How do they translate? How do they work in non-large format studios? That's what I would care about first and foremost. Purchasing an audio product goes in this order for me. 1. How does it sound? 2. How does if function? 3. What support does the company making it offer? Tick ALL three boxes and my wallet will open. Seems a fairly simple approach and has stood me well over the years. If a company decides to “un-tick” box 3 …. I always think it’s worth reporting back to the troops |
|
. 
. Generally if something is, in the long term, popular there's generally some merit to them so I agree, I'm like Ward though I don't get the SM7..
