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Post by keymod on Dec 2, 2023 6:27:00 GMT -6
We have five VP28Litz at the studio, and I would like to build more. However, they don't ever seem to be available anymore. I suspect it's because the "pro builders" snatch them all up, but that's another story..... So, my question is this: How do the other models of Capi preamps - VP25, VP26 & VP312 - compare in sound to each other, and to the VP28? I would probably build a few more Capi racks as well, if they were available.....
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 2, 2023 12:27:51 GMT -6
I’ve had and compared the vp28, vp26, and vp312…they all sound very similar, very much in the same family. The vp26 and vp28 are the most similar to each other. I feel like I didn’t have enough time with the 312’s to really get a great feel for their differences, and when I had them I was mostly using their di’s.
Still though, we’re not talking about wildly different preamps. I think the vp26’s are the best value of the bunch. They sound almost the same the 28’s but you can drive the vp28’s in more interesting ways due to the dual gain stages.
The differences are as much about feature sets as sound imho.
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Post by bricejchandler on Dec 2, 2023 12:34:13 GMT -6
I’ll just copy paste a post I wrote a couple years back in another thread:
I've had the VP26, 28, Heider and I've used the 312 a lot.
I don't find the differences subtle at all, They're obviously all in a similar family of sound but they're different enough where it's worth it to try and see what works best with your mics and setup.
Now you can also get a very large variation in sound with the opamps. I found for my tastes I liked Red Dots a lot more than the Gar2520s. So all my impressions here are using red dots.
The VP26 is rather mid focused, not a ton of high end and not a huge low end making it a great all around preamp. It's not hifi, to me it really has a 70s record vibe. It compresses everything a little bit. Maybe it sounds a tiny bit blurry compared to like a modern 512c but it's actually a sound that works great in a mix.
The VP28, is more muscular, it sounds a little more agressive in the upper mids, a tiny bit tighter but overall a similar vibe to the 26. The HP filter is really really great and I miss it on the other Capi preamps. Great on drums, electric guitars.
The Heider; I've read a lot of people say it's very close to the 312 but to me it's really somewhere between the 28 and the 312 and a BAE1073. A little more High and low end extension that the 28 but it retains a certain muscular character of the vp28 that I don't hear so much in the 312. It's probably the best preamp I've ever heard on guitar amps. The low mids are very very thick, almost like a BAE1073. It's great to thicken up an instrument, I've had great success using it on ukulele for example. I also like it on bass to really push some mid presence. I haven't been lucky with it on vocals though, I find it too thick in the 500-1000Hz region for my mics. I can imagine it would really help thicken up a bright microphone though. The esses are super smooth.
The 312 is the cleanest, most transparent to my ear. Extended High end, rather flat mids ( for an APish preamp) and the transients seem faster than on the others, but maybe that's just the frequency balance. If you find the 26 a bit dull and too vintage I think the 312 is the ticket. It's probably the safest bet in the Capi range for most people as I feel it would work on pretty much any style of music.
Now if I were to have only one, I think I personally would go the VP26 for my taste. I know it's the cheapest but there's something simple and elegant about that preamp, it just works for the sounds I like. I do mostly folk, americana, roots acoustic stuff and when using the 312 for example I'd often end up, cutting a little high end and smoothing the transients a bit. The vp26 gives me that sound right off the bat.
BTW, if you haven't seen it already, go download the shootout that Colt Capperrune did where he compares all the preamps on drums, egit and bass. It really gives a great presentation of their differences and if anybody is wondering which one to get, that shootout is an invaluable resource.
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Post by copperx on Dec 2, 2023 13:53:16 GMT -6
Is there any CAPI preamp that is particularly suited for vocals? I only have the VP28 but I have never found it work well with voice. It feels too "hard" for lack of a better term.
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Post by bricejchandler on Dec 2, 2023 14:46:55 GMT -6
Is there any CAPI preamp that is particularly suited for vocals? I only have the VP28 but I have never found it work well with voice. It feels too "hard" for lack of a better term. I'd be surprised if you liked any of them on vocals if the VP28 doesn't suit you. Ultimately you probably just don't like the API flavor on vocals.
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Post by teejay on Dec 2, 2023 15:10:51 GMT -6
Here is the shootout Brice referenced:
Includes vocals.
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kojei
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by kojei on Dec 2, 2023 20:24:54 GMT -6
Is there any CAPI preamp that is particularly suited for vocals? I only have the VP28 but I have never found it work well with voice. It feels too "hard" for lack of a better term. I have Heider FD312 & VP28 and FD312 works really well for vocals. I feel FD312 is really different sound to VP28. FD312 has some sparkle highs without lack of low end.
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Post by bricejchandler on Dec 3, 2023 7:10:17 GMT -6
Is there any CAPI preamp that is particularly suited for vocals? I only have the VP28 but I have never found it work well with voice. It feels too "hard" for lack of a better term. I have Heider FD312 & VP28 and FD312 works really well for vocals. I feel FD312 is really different sound to VP28. FD312 has some sparkle highs without lack of low end. The Heider definitely has more high and low end compared to the VP28 though I feel the general boxtone to be pretty similar, particularly when they both have red dots. I miss the Heiders I sold on some things, most notably bass and electric guitar. Never got it to work with me on vocals but then API or Capi have never really worked for me for vocals. Nowadays I basically use tube preamps for everything anyway.
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Post by Ward on Dec 3, 2023 9:53:45 GMT -6
Here is the shootout Brice referenced: Includes vocals. I sure appreciate your sharing this . . . it's an odd thing to listen to, there's some much going on that's distracting me from the main content being captured . . . The recording space for the vocal doesn't seem prepared and the room tone is really clouding things for me. Funny, the less colored the preamp, the better it sounds. Color with her voice just doesn't work. She has a naturally perfect voice, and needs to be left alone IMHO. Sometimes the best magic is natural magic. ericn's favorite non-colored mic (and mine), the Beyer 834 might prove a better choice for her. OMG, what a beautiful sounding instrument she has, and her ornamentation and inflections are flawless. And because of that, I like the CAPI 312. And I have one.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Dec 3, 2023 10:16:22 GMT -6
Here is the shootout Brice referenced: Includes vocals. I sure appreciate your sharing this . . . it's an odd thing to listen to, there's some much going on that's distracting me from the main content being captured . . . The recording space for the vocal doesn't seem prepared and the room tone is really clouding things for me. Funny, the less colored the preamp, the better it sounds. Color with her voice just doesn't work. She has a naturally perfect voice, and needs to be left alone IMHO. Sometimes the best magic is natural magic. ericn's favorite non-colored mic (and mine), the Beyer 834 might prove a better choice for her. OMG, what a beautiful sounding instrument she has, and her ornamentation and inflections are flawless. And because of that, I like the CAPI 312. And I have one. I think you’re right the Beyer or an off axis SDC and try a Hardy or Grace or maybe a DAV pre. Clean with a light brush stroke of color without getting edgy.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 3, 2023 12:04:45 GMT -6
Here is the shootout Brice referenced: Includes vocals. I sure appreciate your sharing this . . . it's an odd thing to listen to, there's some much going on that's distracting me from the main content being captured . . . The recording space for the vocal doesn't seem prepared and the room tone is really clouding things for me. Funny, the less colored the preamp, the better it sounds. Color with her voice just doesn't work. She has a naturally perfect voice, and needs to be left alone IMHO. Sometimes the best magic is natural magic. ericn's favorite non-colored mic (and mine), the Beyer 834 might prove a better choice for her. OMG, what a beautiful sounding instrument she has, and her ornamentation and inflections are flawless. And because of that, I like the CAPI 312. And I have one. It was recorded at me of the busiest studios in town.
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Post by Quint on Dec 3, 2023 16:35:32 GMT -6
I've gotta try these Heiders one of these days. That said, I'd still be okay with using VP28s on nearly everything if I had to.
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Post by Ward on Dec 3, 2023 17:53:21 GMT -6
It was recorded at me of the busiest studios in town. Duly noted and I'm sure they do lots of great work. Doesn't change a thing about the room tone and the need for keeping the gear out of the way of an incredible voice. but I do get your point about it being a trusted recording studio.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 3, 2023 18:15:56 GMT -6
I just don’t understand. The gear getting in the way was the whole point.
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Post by jampa on Dec 4, 2023 0:09:07 GMT -6
I liked listening to that band play that song and forgot that I was listening out for preamps
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Post by bricejchandler on Dec 4, 2023 8:08:38 GMT -6
Actually the shootout by Colt Caperrune I was talking about had drums, electric guitars and bass. I can't seem to find the files on internet anymore. They were really great.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Dec 4, 2023 15:01:04 GMT -6
I liked listening to that band play that song and forgot that I was listening out for preamps Hate it when that happens.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 4, 2023 18:00:37 GMT -6
Actually the shootout by Colt Caperrune I was talking about had drums, electric guitars and bass. I can't seem to find the files on internet anymore. They were really great. The name’s CAPI-rune. 😀
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Post by sentientsound on Mar 5, 2024 17:22:10 GMT -6
Haven't heard much about the Heider H2 anywhere still. Anyone using them? Liking them? Comparisons to the first-gen Heiders? Thanks all!
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