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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 27, 2023 0:19:34 GMT -6
After all these years, I’ve only somewhat recently realized I don’t actually like Neve-type/direction preamps on toms. Toms are too boomy for me with them. I’m always fighting it way too much, no matter what I do! I’m much much happier with much more neutral preamps for toms. Hardy is cool. Wish I had a 4-Ch. or even a pair. The Duality preamps are nice there too though. The studio has an abundance of those!
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 27, 2023 2:22:49 GMT -6
Ever tried Daking?
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 27, 2023 4:11:42 GMT -6
I did a whole song with a pair of original Trident A-Range Channels and a pair of Dakings about 6 or 7 years ago in a studio. Around that same time, I also did a few songs with a full Daking console different studio. At yet another studio 4 years ago, I used a pair of Dakings on OHs. Funny enough, I don’t there were toms on any of those projects!
We’ve had a Trident Audio Developments A-Range Dual Channel Strip at the studio for at least a year now. I’ve used them on OHs, vocals, and guitar. I’ll have to try them on toms next!
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 27, 2023 5:31:20 GMT -6
Interesting, my understanding is that Rupert was involved in their design but to me Trident/daking are not the Neve sound: hard to describe, more euphonic, than saturated maybe ?m
I have the 2 channel daking: think its great !
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Post by mcirish on Nov 27, 2023 6:47:34 GMT -6
I'd second the Dakings. I have four channels of Dakings preamps. They are especially good at drums. I also like them on piano as well.
Kind of an interesting topic. I only have two channels of Neve style pres. So far, they have been my least favorite. Not exactly sure why but they always feel a bit heavy and I don't care for them when pushed. I know a lot of people love that sound. I'm not one of them.
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Post by Ward on Nov 27, 2023 7:14:17 GMT -6
Funny you bring this up . . . I have the chambordaudio Baxandall on order and plan on pairing it with a dual 990 or matt@IAA QP5 for a test on various toms. Using the combination HPF and bump feature. My expected result (hypothesis) is to recommend to Gabriel to have a preamp with his Bax EQ w/bump built in. So many possibilities. So to recordingengineer, yes the murkiness and boominess of the N type preamp is an annoying as the sometimes boxiness of other preamps descended from the 312 topography. |
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Post by doubledog on Nov 27, 2023 8:28:20 GMT -6
I like the A-designs pres for drums. P1's on overheads, EM-Red on rack tom, either EM-silver or EM-gold on floor tom. I have a EM-blue, and it works well on a smaller rack tom (12 and smaller) but I have it demoted to bottom snare right now lol (but it sounds great). Using Hairball gold on snare and the Avedis MA-5 on bass drum (kick). I've tried many other pres on kick and nothing sounds better to me than that one! The boom works - sometimes too well, don't even use my subkick mic 99% of the time. Anyway, I don't find the toms overly boomy (and using 421's), but I do always have to roll off some of the low end anyway (compressors will bring out more boom).
OT, but I also love the EM-gold on bass guitars - either the built-in DI or a Radial JDI going into it. A good Fender Jazz bass especially.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 10:25:13 GMT -6
Clean is king at the end of the day. You don't want to be the one who fucks up. Let the drummer be the fuck up.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 11:39:52 GMT -6
Funny enough it was the Neve style pre’s that made me embrace my own version of the Earthworks technique, your right about the fact that on close miced toms they are king of boom, it’s like they lock in on proximity effect and just multiply it. I know it’s not frequency response thing but the way they distort. However it sure is the sound of a bunch of records from my youth!
Clean on drums can be awesome but, it shows any short comings in the kit and setup, a rack of JW modded Micpreeminance on Toms is killer, but your going to want a great drum tech on hand.
Paul’s story about the calls about his drum sound when he had the Neotech make sense but man you have to go in knowing their is no where to hide any issues with the drummer or the setup.
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 27, 2023 16:47:20 GMT -6
Interesting, my understanding is that Rupert was involved in their design but to me Trident/daking are not the Neve sound: hard to describe, more euphonic, than saturated maybe ?m I have the 2 channel daking: think its great ! Rupert involved in whose design? I haven’t ever heard about him being involved with any of those designs. |
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Post by geoff738 on Nov 27, 2023 16:52:13 GMT -6
I thought I was the only one who wasn’t really fond of the stereotypical N sound. Do like my Daking pre and compressor!
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 27, 2023 17:23:24 GMT -6
I thought I was the only one who wasn’t really fond of the stereotypical N sound. Do like my Daking pre and compressor! Cheers, Geoff They all have their place, but with stereotypical N, it’s not on toms for me. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 27, 2023 17:34:45 GMT -6
Interesting, my understanding is that Rupert was involved in their design but to me Trident/daking are not the Neve sound: hard to describe, more euphonic, than saturated maybe ?m I have the 2 channel daking: think its great ! Rupert involved in whose design? I haven’t ever heard about him being involved with any of those designs. I may be misremembering, but i think i had read that he was involved in the design of the original trident pre snd the daking is essentially a recreation of the trident pre, sanctioned by Trident. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 27, 2023 21:13:09 GMT -6
Barry Porter designed to Malcolm Toft’s ears for the original A-Range. Never heard of Rupert being involved. You may be thinking of the Amek 9098i console?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 28, 2023 0:07:43 GMT -6
Barry Porter designed to Malcolm Toft’s ears for the original A-Range. Never heard of Rupert being involved. You may be thinking of the Amek 9098i console? I understand and think I may be misremembering: thx! |
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Post by anders on Nov 28, 2023 0:37:44 GMT -6
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 28, 2023 1:13:23 GMT -6
Maybe so, but it seems the way the circuit interacts with the input transformer is what is unique; well, really for me, it’s the way the preamp interacts with the EQ, is what makes it special! If I was going preamp-only, I probably prefer Flickenger and Spectra Sonics over Trident. |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 28, 2023 2:26:36 GMT -6
After all these years, I’ve only somewhat recently realized I don’t actually like Neve-type/direction preamps on toms. Toms are too boomy for me with them. I’m always fighting it way too much, no matter what I do! I’m much much happier with much more neutral preamps for toms. Hardy is cool. Wish I had a 4-Ch. or even a pair. The Duality preamps are nice there too though. The studio has an abundance of those! These are truly amazing on toms. ehrlund.se/product/ehr-e/?v=f003c44deab6Not cheap though!! Really hot output, you won’t need much gain from any pre-amp you choose and so you’ll be virtually removing the sound of the pre from your equation  |
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Post by Ward on Nov 28, 2023 7:35:05 GMT -6
I understand and think I may be misremembering: thx! Ever mix-remember? I've done that so many times. . . . Someone asks me what tom mics I used on a session, and I go through what my favorites have been chronologically, EV308s 408s, 421s, 441s, 179s, various 414s, U87s, U89s, 84s, 201s, 460s, etc these days LS308s. Easy to mix up and remember the wrong thing! LOL At least for my brain that's been with for over 55 years now |
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Post by thirdeye on Nov 28, 2023 8:27:30 GMT -6
I usually use Neve style preamps on the whole kit, except for toms. Instead, I use a API 3124 with 15db pads on the outputs.
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Post by Ward on Nov 28, 2023 8:32:02 GMT -6
I usually use Neve style preamps on the whole kit, except for toms. Instead, I use a API 3124 with 15db pads on the outputs. Have much trouble with cymbal bleed? |
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Post by thirdeye on Nov 28, 2023 9:16:36 GMT -6
I usually use Neve style preamps on the whole kit, except for toms. Instead, I use a API 3124 with 15db pads on the outputs. Have much trouble with cymbal bleed? No, I don't really think so. I typically record with M179s choosing cardioid or hyper depending on the cymbal setup. Then automate and/or edit the toms for the mix. The meters on the 3124 are in the red when the tom hits. Not exactly clean though! HA! |
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Post by Ward on Nov 28, 2023 10:25:58 GMT -6
Have much trouble with cymbal bleed? No, I don't really think so. I typically record with M179s choosing cardioid or hyper depending on the cymbal setup. Then automate and/or edit the toms for the mix. The meters on the 3124 are in the red when the tom hits. Not exactly clean though! HA! Care to share some tom tracks, in context of course? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 28, 2023 10:29:27 GMT -6
Well, should we ask Tom first ? |
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Post by Ward on Nov 28, 2023 10:30:27 GMT -6
Well, should we ask Tom first ? Queue the long string of bad jokes now. I guess we should check with Tom's wife, Mrs Turkey? |
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