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Post by kbsmoove on Nov 26, 2023 23:41:45 GMT -6
I had ATM450s and really wasn't impressed with them anywhere. fine on hats and ride, fine on toms (if you want a ton of attack and little body), fine on hipassed acoustics. pretty unremarkable, but i don't think they ever really sounded bad either.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Nov 27, 2023 0:46:56 GMT -6
They're awesome! I've been using them for over 10 years on Toms. They kind of sound how you'd imagine you want toms to sound miced up oppose to the dreaded 421s haha.. They work great on snare to blended with an sm57 for a nice topsmack/crack. Highly recommended them! A lot of other mics got mentioned… are you referring to the ATM450 here? |
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Post by drumsound on Nov 27, 2023 1:16:05 GMT -6
The ATM23 was the favorite Tom mic at SMART for years. I've made a ton of records with an ATM23 on snare. i used to have a ton of these. I only kept two because for placement, they are superb. the sound is pretty damn thin though. they can manage on toms if you mic the reso heads also with something with more bottom. I only use them if I absolutely have to. the Beta181s sound so much better, though are a lot more expensive. Beta 181s are very cool. Plus you can get figure 8 capsules. i used to have a ton of these. I only kept two because for placement, they are superb. the sound is pretty damn thin though. they can manage on toms if you mic the reso heads also with something with more bottom. I only use them if I absolutely have to. the Beta181s sound so much better, though are a lot more expensive. The 181 is a better mic, but considering the price the 450 is such a steal. I will admit to a bit of curiosity about the less expensive Shure PGA 181 with the fixed capsule, just not enough to take a flyer😁 Let us know if you do. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Nov 27, 2023 2:32:47 GMT -6
All and all I think you will find better tom mics than the 450, for example a set of 230, and you will also find a nice pair of sdc’s for cheaper than the 450’s, for example the swedish line audio.
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Post by theboris on Nov 27, 2023 9:38:17 GMT -6
I think the 450s are great, especially for those (raises hand) that can't afford e22s! The line audio are also great and incredible bang for buck. But they are end-address so tom placement is far more limited with them, almost apples to oranges despite both having electret capsules. I like the -10dB pad on the 450 as well for heavy hitters. They capture transients / attack very well. I sometimes have to add a bit of low mid / body, but many times in a busy mix it's fine without EQ! I'd rather have good transients (which can of course be dulled or attenuated as needed with your flavor of the month, I like black box hg...) than a perfectly flat frequency balanced mic that isn't responsive to the natural envelope of the tom (a number of dynamics).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 10:23:40 GMT -6
It's okay. It needs a lot of EQ and limiting on drums.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 11:27:54 GMT -6
One of the things I always wondered was what if they had taken the capsule of a 4021 in a side address? It felt like they got cute with the 450 voicing to overcome proximity effect because they knew it was going to be used almost exclusively for close micing.
Still I won’t say a 23 or 230 is better it’s different, the frequency response is better on the 23/230 but the 450 is quicker.
I’m betting the new Samara will beat it since from what Mark has said he didn’t get cute with the Frequency response. I’m honestly afraid to try his new SDC side address because I know if I do I’ll have to buy another Seahorse 710 and fill it with them!
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Post by svart on Nov 27, 2023 11:44:37 GMT -6
Nothing beats the ATM25 for me on toms. It seems that the ATM230 is voiced almost identically. I'd go for the ATM230 if I had to buy a new tom set. Youtube comparison |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 11:50:16 GMT -6
It's okay. It needs a lot of EQ and limiting on drums. Agreed, but here is the thing any overall great mic is going to need EQ on closed mic drums because of the proximity effect, there was a time period where you can tell everyone was getting used to the new SSL and tried to use just the high pass to correct it, it took a while for guys to realize you had to use the filter and the low band. Now the big question do you want a flat Tom mic or something where the designer EQ’ed it to their taste? I’ll admit ideal would be both, in a condenser something flat for 90% of the time when I have time to dial it all in, but with a switchable active EQ curve for those gigs where there is no time and I can get a workable tone quickly would be killer. |
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 11:53:24 GMT -6
Nothing beats the ATM25 for me on toms. It seems that the ATM230 is voiced almost identically. I'd go for the ATM230 if I had to buy a new tom set. Youtube comparisonWe need someone in Japan to join RGO just so we can get reasonably priced ATM25’s 😁 |
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Post by svart on Nov 27, 2023 11:57:20 GMT -6
Nothing beats the ATM25 for me on toms. It seems that the ATM230 is voiced almost identically. I'd go for the ATM230 if I had to buy a new tom set. Youtube comparisonWe need someone in Japan to join RGO just so we can get reasonably priced ATM25’s 😁 I've seen those "japanese ATM250s" but I'm just not sold that they aren't fakes or fake ads. I tried buying a speaker from japan and it turned out to be a fake ebay auction and my research seemed to suggest a LOT of fake ebay listings from japan. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 12:10:46 GMT -6
We need someone in Japan to join RGO just so we can get reasonably priced ATM25’s 😁 I've seen those "japanese ATM250s" but I'm just not sold that they aren't fakes or fake ads. I tried buying a speaker from japan and it turned out to be a fake ebay auction and my research seemed to suggest a LOT of fake ebay listings from japan. There are a ton of Fake Japanese auctions, for a couple of years I had a neighbor who was from Japan and ironically wanted to be a drummer, he always told me those fake auctions were overpriced as well, he ended up with some guidance a really nice mic locker of AT, Sanken and Sony’s that he would pick up when he went back to Japan to visit family, he also took a fair amount of Vintage Small JBL and Gauss drivers back to Japan to pay for his mics. He was one of those guys who’s carrying on was always at his feat because it was to heavy to put in the overheads. A mic I always wanted to try on a closed mic kit that a Japanese Classically trained percussionist turned me on to is the Pearl TL66/6C while I can’t say we used them for distance mics, as a spot mic at about 18 in on percussion it was amazing. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 27, 2023 13:18:06 GMT -6
I thought the title was "450 mics" and I thought "damn, I'm gonna need another 300 mics."
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Post by niklas1073 on Nov 27, 2023 13:30:50 GMT -6
Nothing beats the ATM25 for me on toms. It seems that the ATM230 is voiced almost identically. I'd go for the ATM230 if I had to buy a new tom set. Youtube comparisonYes, i would go as far saying it’s pretty much the same mic squeezed into a smaller body. |
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 13:57:39 GMT -6
Nothing beats the ATM25 for me on toms. It seems that the ATM230 is voiced almost identically. I'd go for the ATM230 if I had to buy a new tom set. Youtube comparisonYes, i would go as far saying it’s pretty much the same mic squeezed into a smaller body. ATM25 has about a 5dB bump at 60HZ 230 is flatter and has a gentle maybe 2dB rise both at 12in other wise you can pretty much lay the graphs on top of each other, but as you get closer that 5 dB bump grows faster than the 230. |
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Post by doubledog on Nov 27, 2023 15:01:28 GMT -6
I’m a huge fan of the e22s and we have a few but if you’re looking for drum mics specifically the beyerdynamic clip on drum mics are terrific. hmmm... One thing I don't like about the 421's is the cymbal bleed. I like the sound of the 421 better than the Audix D series and didn't feel like bleed was much better or worse. Never really paid much attention to the ATM230's, but well, I found a 3-pk with a 15% cyber Monday discount, no tax and free shipping so how could I not? Gonna try them and if I like em, I'll even make $ on the deal selling off some of my 421's!  |
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Post by niklas1073 on Nov 27, 2023 15:11:45 GMT -6
Yes, i would go as far saying it’s pretty much the same mic squeezed into a smaller body. ATM25 has about a 5dB bump at 60HZ 230 is flatter and has a gentle maybe 2dB rise both at 12in other wise you can pretty much lay the graphs on top of each other, but as you get closer that 5 dB bump grows faster than the 230. Ok, then they are not the same, just very similar sounding. I thought that the 230 would just have been a reissue outside japan for the 25 but in a 23he body, and carry the same capsule as the 25. But that was not based on anything more scientific than an assumption that as they sound pretty much identical and they sell the 25 still on the Japanese market… i think. |
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 15:45:53 GMT -6
ATM25 has about a 5dB bump at 60HZ 230 is flatter and has a gentle maybe 2dB rise both at 12in other wise you can pretty much lay the graphs on top of each other, but as you get closer that 5 dB bump grows faster than the 230. Ok, then they are not the same, just very similar sounding. I thought that the 230 would just have been a reissue outside japan for the 25 but in a 23he body, and carry the same capsule as the 25. But that was not based on anything more scientific than an assumption that as they sound pretty much identical and they sell the 25 still on the Japanese market… i think. When the 25 was withdrawn from the US market the rep said something about some chemicals or processes that were band from the US and products made using them were no longer allowed to be imported, I didn’t believe him at the time because his lips were moving but who knows. I know we were always one of their top 3 dealers and the US was their biggest single market. We always seamed to be back ordered so it might even be that they were just hard to make. I sent an email to my last known contact at ATUS but he ii can’t find him referenced anywhere on line so we shall see. The ATM series always seamed to change more often than Cher changed her outfit live, as a dealer it was a pain in the ass because if someone liked a mic and wanted another one 3 years later their was a 50/50 chance you could get one. When you called the rep their was always a “ newer better mic” but really it was different and there was always a 50/50 shot that their improvement got rid of what the customer liked most about the mic. It was always the MI series that they would do this to, of course when they did DC a mic we were always more than Happy to clear them out. The other manufacturer who was like that was Beyerdynamic, the pro stuff didn’t change but the MI line always seamed in flux ( granted selling a ton of discontinued Beyer did get me free eagles tix and a nice beyer jacket). I always tried to explain to other mic manufacturers that a big part of why Shure was Shure was even if the mic changed when they moved to Mexico it was still a 57 or a 545 yeah the lowend mic series changed every 10-15 years but the MI mainstays didn’t! |
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Post by jmoose on Nov 27, 2023 16:09:41 GMT -6
Interested in these as well. I’ve been wondering about the dynamic ATM230s for toms too, just kinda bored of the e604 😅 Sennheiser 609's are usually my first choice on toms these days. Pretty killer IMO. If the drummer is a quadulant thunder kinda player (big kit) I'll use 609's on the racks & either 421 or D112 on the floors. Not a big fan of the 604's as either engineer or drummer. They kinda sound like 57s to me which is fine, but I really despise that clip. On small toms like a 10" it puts the mic nearly in the center of the drum where I'm almost absolutely gonna hit it. At the very least its a visual and mental distraction. Plus they seem to pick up/transmit more vibration then other things that clip directly to a drum. Ugh. Condensers on toms? Sometimes. Not too often really. Really depends on the kit, player, genre of music... And really even more then anything? Drummers aim. Learned a long time ago, and thankfully don't deal with this too often anymore... but back in the early lo-budget days someone tipped me to the idea of looking at the drummers heads when they showed up at the studio. If all the head wear was in the center of the drum? Then you know they're a decent player and I could hang nice mics like 414's on toms and not worry about the old smashy smashy dents. But if the drum heads look they were at shooting range? Dents all over the place?? Bust out the SM57s! |
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2023 16:16:51 GMT -6
The ATM23 was the favorite Tom mic at SMART for years. I've made a ton of records with an ATM23 on snare. i used to have a ton of these. I only kept two because for placement, they are superb. the sound is pretty damn thin though. they can manage on toms if you mic the reso heads also with something with more bottom. I only use them if I absolutely have to. the Beta181s sound so much better, though are a lot more expensive. Beta 181s are very cool. Plus you can get figure 8 capsules. The 181 is a better mic, but considering the price the 450 is such a steal. I will admit to a bit of curiosity about the less expensive Shure PGA 181 with the fixed capsule, just not enough to take a flyer😁 Let us know if you do. Snare was the original push for the 23, guys started to use it on Tom’s after they used with the snare disengaged, and it worked. Now that I have the frequency graphs in my head I might do a dive into old discontinued ATM “ handhelds and see if anything matches up, I mean if there is something you can find for $50 that uses a clip… Ward will buy them all to hit his 450 target 😎 |
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