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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 20, 2023 14:21:49 GMT -6
Hey guys,
I need a little advice here. I have a first generation Sebatron VMP-4000, 4 channel tube preamp. I love it. It sounds great. BUT, it's in need of servicing. Here are the problems
1) Two channels have a pretty consistence crackling sound, accompanied by a volume drop out of about 2-3 db. I've done the normal trouble shooting, its not the tubes, cables, instruments connected to it etc.
2) Channels 3 & 4 exhibit a crazy distortion/crackling when running audio (line level or mic level) through the xlr inputs. Those channels (3 & 4) sound perfect when using the DI's. I was told by sebaton that there were some faulty DI sockets on the first generation preamps.
3) There is very poor stereo matching between channels. I consistently use this for stereo sources so that always creates an issue. Not looking for mastering grade matching between channels, but its a little rediculous when the channel gain is set to "2" on one side and "8" on the other.
So here's the dilemma: I've been directed by Sebatron to send the unit in to Fuchs Audio in NJ for servicing. Their prices are little high but probably reasonable ($145 for the first hour, $100/hr after that). But between the bench fee and shipping I'm looking at an easy $500 repair bill. And that's IF it even makes sense to have it serviced after they diagnose it. I could probably sell it as is for $500 and just buy a brand new VMP-4000 Plus for around $1500. I only paid $1000 for the unit years ago.
I'm also worried, however, that a new one is also going to have reliability issues. An engineer friend was just over my studio, and the first thing he said was, "I love those Sebatrons, but I had to sell mine because it was too noisey". I also spoke with Bowie recently, when buying new tubes, and he told me also that the Sebatrons are very sensitive and known for noise issues.
So is it worth it? Should I have it repaired? Does Fuchs Audio have a good reputation? Is there another place I should send it? Is someone that is comfortable modifying/upgrading some of the components on the preamp for better reliability and better stereo matching? Should I just sell it and buy something new/different?
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Post by phdamage on Nov 20, 2023 14:27:22 GMT -6
how long have you had it? I got mine second hand - i think one of their B-stock units. I also love it.
I haven't noticed it being noisy, admittedly. I also haven't had any problems, but I've only had it about 4 or maybe 5 years?
I will say they routinely have B-stock units on ebay for like $1k or so. that's how/where i got mine. but if I was in your shoes, I would just pay for the repair. it has to be cheaper than buying another and if you've had it a long while, maybe that's just the cost of doing business?
I say this having just sent my Chandler Germanium pres back to Chandler for the 3rd time since I got them (used) in 2008.
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 20, 2023 14:48:15 GMT -6
how long have you had it? I got mine second hand - i think one of their B-stock units. I also love it. I haven't noticed it being noisy, admittedly. I also haven't had any problems, but I've only had it about 4 or maybe 5 years? I will say they routinely have B-stock units on ebay for like $1k or so. that's how/where i got mine. but if I was in your shoes, I would just pay for the repair. it has to be cheaper than buying another and if you've had it a long while, maybe that's just the cost of doing business? I say this having just sent my Chandler Germanium pres back to Chandler for the 3rd time since I got them (used) in 2008. Yeah its probably just the cost of doing business...I've owned it about 10 years, maybe a hair longer. By noisy I don't mean noise floor issues, I mean the crackling sounds its exhibiting.
I just wonder if it isn't better to by another unit, or another pre from a different manufacturer. And keep this one for its two good channels. I primarily use it as a DI for my synths and for running stereo stems through it.
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Post by robo on Nov 20, 2023 15:18:03 GMT -6
I’ve have one I bought new about 5 years ago. The channels track very close together, and I’ve had no problems at all. Just wanted to throw that out to assuage your fear that Sebatron has ongoing QC problems.
I don’t know if this is what Bowie meant, but it is very sensitive to what tubes are in there. I’ve never had swapping make such a dramatic difference in another tube piece.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 20, 2023 17:02:07 GMT -6
Hey guys,
I need a little advice here. I have a first generation Sebatron VMP-4000, 4 channel tube preamp. I love it. It sounds great. BUT, it's in need of servicing. Here are the problems
1) Two channels have a pretty consistence crackling sound, accompanied by a volume drop out of about 2-3 db. I've done the normal trouble shooting, its not the tubes, cables, instruments connected to it etc.
2) Channels 3 & 4 exhibit a crazy distortion/crackling when running audio (line level or mic level) through the xlr inputs. Those channels (3 & 4) sound perfect when using the DI's. I was told by sebaton that there were some faulty DI sockets on the first generation preamps.
3) There is very poor stereo matching between channels. I consistently use this for stereo sources so that always creates an issue. Not looking for mastering grade matching between channels, but its a little rediculous when the channel gain is set to "2" on one side and "8" on the other.
So here's the dilemma: I've been directed by Sebatron to send the unit in to Fuchs Audio in NJ for servicing. Their prices are little high but probably reasonable ($145 for the first hour, $100/hr after that). But between the bench fee and shipping I'm looking at an easy $500 repair bill. And that's IF it even makes sense to have it serviced after they diagnose it. I could probably sell it as is for $500 and just buy a brand new VMP-4000 Plus for around $1500. I only paid $1000 for the unit years ago.
I'm also worried, however, that a new one is also going to have reliability issues. An engineer friend was just over my studio, and the first thing he said was, "I love those Sebatrons, but I had to sell mine because it was too noisey". I also spoke with Bowie recently, when buying new tubes, and he told me also that the Sebatrons are very sensitive and known for noise issues.
So is it worth it? Should I have it repaired? Does Fuchs Audio have a good reputation? Is there another place I should send it? Is someone that is comfortable modifying/upgrading some of the components on the preamp for better reliability and better stereo matching? Should I just sell it and buy something new/different?
Where are you located? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 20, 2023 18:02:33 GMT -6
I’ve have one I bought new about 5 years ago. The channels track very close together, and I’ve had no problems at all. Just wanted to throw that out to assuage your fear that Sebatron has ongoing QC problems. I don’t know if this is what Bowie meant, but it is very sensitive to what tubes are in there. I’ve never had swapping make such a dramatic difference in another tube piece. Thanks, that does help. I'm a little spooked that there are general QC problems with the Sebatron stuff. It's only lately that I've had anyone else tell me they had problems, but it all happened at the same time which kinda set off alarm bells, ya know? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 20, 2023 18:02:51 GMT -6
Hey guys,
I need a little advice here. I have a first generation Sebatron VMP-4000, 4 channel tube preamp. I love it. It sounds great. BUT, it's in need of servicing. Here are the problems
1) Two channels have a pretty consistence crackling sound, accompanied by a volume drop out of about 2-3 db. I've done the normal trouble shooting, its not the tubes, cables, instruments connected to it etc.
2) Channels 3 & 4 exhibit a crazy distortion/crackling when running audio (line level or mic level) through the xlr inputs. Those channels (3 & 4) sound perfect when using the DI's. I was told by sebaton that there were some faulty DI sockets on the first generation preamps.
3) There is very poor stereo matching between channels. I consistently use this for stereo sources so that always creates an issue. Not looking for mastering grade matching between channels, but its a little rediculous when the channel gain is set to "2" on one side and "8" on the other.
So here's the dilemma: I've been directed by Sebatron to send the unit in to Fuchs Audio in NJ for servicing. Their prices are little high but probably reasonable ($145 for the first hour, $100/hr after that). But between the bench fee and shipping I'm looking at an easy $500 repair bill. And that's IF it even makes sense to have it serviced after they diagnose it. I could probably sell it as is for $500 and just buy a brand new VMP-4000 Plus for around $1500. I only paid $1000 for the unit years ago.
I'm also worried, however, that a new one is also going to have reliability issues. An engineer friend was just over my studio, and the first thing he said was, "I love those Sebatrons, but I had to sell mine because it was too noisey". I also spoke with Bowie recently, when buying new tubes, and he told me also that the Sebatrons are very sensitive and known for noise issues.
So is it worth it? Should I have it repaired? Does Fuchs Audio have a good reputation? Is there another place I should send it? Is someone that is comfortable modifying/upgrading some of the components on the preamp for better reliability and better stereo matching? Should I just sell it and buy something new/different?
Where are you located? Portland Oregon |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Nov 20, 2023 18:14:54 GMT -6
Almost every unit with switching DI jacks have driven me crazy. They always go bad and cause crazy, almost unrepeatable problems. Not sure if that’s what the deal is here, but if you could bypass those it would be a good start. I’m sure manufacturers that use higher quality jacks don’t have these issues as often.
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Post by Quint on Nov 20, 2023 18:18:56 GMT -6
Man, I've never had a problem with mine. I have a pair of the 4000s. One newer and one older. I never use the DIs though.
I did have a similar conversation with Bowie about noise and tubes a while back, and he said the same things to me, but he sold me some appropriate tubes and noise hasn't been an issue.
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Post by robo on Nov 20, 2023 18:29:16 GMT -6
I’ve have one I bought new about 5 years ago. The channels track very close together, and I’ve had no problems at all. Just wanted to throw that out to assuage your fear that Sebatron has ongoing QC problems. I don’t know if this is what Bowie meant, but it is very sensitive to what tubes are in there. I’ve never had swapping make such a dramatic difference in another tube piece. Thanks, that does help. I'm a little spooked that there are general QC problems with the Sebatron stuff. It's only lately that I've had anyone else tell me they had problems, but it all happened at the same time which kinda set off alarm bells, ya know? Yeah, understandable. It’s a hard choice. I’m also in Portland, but I don’t know a good local tech to send you to, unfortunately. If you’ve got the rack space it might make sense to keep it for what you can use it for, and get a lightly used one or another box. I doubt you’ll find a better value than Sebatron, but there’s certainly some other options out there if you don’t need all four channels. |
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Post by phdamage on Nov 20, 2023 18:33:18 GMT -6
What tubes are you all using? I never tried anything different but have been pretty happy
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Post by Quint on Nov 20, 2023 18:56:20 GMT -6
What tubes are you all using? I never tried anything different but have been pretty happy I believe Bowie sent me Mullards. |
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Post by robo on Nov 20, 2023 19:24:15 GMT -6
What tubes are you all using? I never tried anything different but have been pretty happy I’ve got RI Mullards in two channels and Gold Lions in two of them. The Mullards are clean with a soft top. The Gold Lions are dark with saturated low mids. The stock tubes (JJ’s I think) were ok, but a bit hazy and mid-fi. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 20, 2023 19:43:42 GMT -6
I had NOS Millard’s in two channels, and NOS Jan Philips in the other two.
Bowie sold me two more Mullard’s. I thought the noise I was getting was a bad tube, turns out nope, it’s the unit.
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Post by phdamage on Nov 20, 2023 21:49:04 GMT -6
Any biasing need to happen or you just pop em in there?
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Post by drumsound on Nov 20, 2023 22:57:50 GMT -6
Thanks, that does help. I'm a little spooked that there are general QC problems with the Sebatron stuff. It's only lately that I've had anyone else tell me they had problems, but it all happened at the same time which kinda set off alarm bells, ya know? Yeah, understandable. It’s a hard choice. I’m also in Portland, but I don’t know a good local tech to send you to, unfortunately. If you’ve got the rack space it might make sense to keep it for what you can use it for, and get a lightly used one or another box. I doubt you’ll find a better value than Sebatron, but there’s certainly some other options out there if you don’t need all four channels. Does Scott Hampton take repair work? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 20, 2023 23:47:09 GMT -6
Yeah, understandable. It’s a hard choice. I’m also in Portland, but I don’t know a good local tech to send you to, unfortunately. If you’ve got the rack space it might make sense to keep it for what you can use it for, and get a lightly used one or another box. I doubt you’ll find a better value than Sebatron, but there’s certainly some other options out there if you don’t need all four channels. Does Scott Hampton take repair work? Thats a great idea…don’t know why, but I didn’t even think to reach out to him. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 20, 2023 23:47:39 GMT -6
Any biasing need to happen or you just pop em in there? Just plop em in 👍 |
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Post by robo on Nov 21, 2023 0:11:09 GMT -6
Does Scott Hampton take repair work? Thats a great idea…don’t know why, but I didn’t even think to reach out to him. I’m sure he could fix it but imagine he’s busy doing his own thing. He might have an idea who to send you to though. If not, buy one of his tube pres. I use mine at least as much as my Sebatron, though I wouldn’t want to be without either. |
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Post by anders on Nov 21, 2023 4:22:52 GMT -6
If it is related to the DI socket switching (which it sounds like it could be), it might be fairly simple for anyone with a multimeter, a soldering iron and some experience with fault finding to fix it.
Maybe there's a suitable guitar amp tech in your area? When I google I find a few different ones, but I don't know who comes recommended…
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Post by frans on Nov 21, 2023 6:54:23 GMT -6
The Sebatron comp/eq i had waaay back was quiet, reliable and never gave me any trouble for many years. It did the pultec thing nice. They don't do that model anymore, it was from the time when they had black faceplates.
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