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Post by ironinthepath on Nov 9, 2023 16:20:30 GMT -6
In another thread I mentioned my recently acquired AEA R44 --> beautiful mic. I was wondering if anyone has tried the RPQ2 and especially the RPQ3, or both for some sort of comparison?
It just seems like it would be nice to have a dedicated pre/eq for the job but I don't want to lose-out quality wise when compared to some of the other big names in preamps. Any thoughts?
BTW: I am quite comfortable with the benefit of high input-impedance for ribbons, but I'm not afraid to "break rules" if your experience with a non "ribbon pre" has been exceptional.
Thanks! -Chris
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 9, 2023 17:03:20 GMT -6
In another thread I mentioned my recently acquired AEA R44 --> beautiful mic. I was wondering if anyone has tried the RPQ2 and especially the RPQ3, or both for some sort of comparison? It just seems like it would be nice to have a dedicated pre/eq for the job but I don't want to lose-out quality wise when compared to some of the other big names in preamps. Any thoughts? BTW: I am quite comfortable with the benefit of high input-impedance for ribbons, but I'm not afraid to "break rules" if your experience with a non "ribbon pre" has been exceptional. Thanks! -Chris paging andersmv
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Post by ab101 on Nov 9, 2023 17:22:00 GMT -6
Designed by Fred Forssell who also designed the active part of the a-440 ribbons. High impedence too! Have not used the 3 though.
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Post by andersmv on Nov 9, 2023 17:59:49 GMT -6
I probably have said this multiple times in multiple places 🤣… It’s hard for me to use anything other than AEA preamps on my ribbon mics anymore. There are exceptions, especially on louder sources where I’m not fighting the noise floor or drums where I might want an even darker sound. For the most part, it’s just a night and day difference to me with that clean, super high impedance juice. My R88 pretty much lives plugged into my TRP.
Ribbons aside, tube mics can sound amazing through the AEA ores as well.
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Post by dok on Nov 9, 2023 18:11:43 GMT -6
I just bought an RPQ2. It can be a little glassy on certain condensers (because it's transformerless maybe?) but it absolutely kills on my m160s. Clean, low-noise gain, and thanks to the very useful onboard EQs, you can dial in a very nice sound with a ton of headroom. And to get around the glassiness I start with my API A2D and then patch the output through the RPQ2's line input, which then allows me to use the filters on it. The big difference between the 2 and the 3 is that you can only reduce low end and add high end on the 2, and on the 3 you can add and reduce both low end and high end, if that makes sense. Wasn't worth paying the extra $700-800 for that functionality on the 3, for me.
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Post by Ward on Nov 9, 2023 18:26:38 GMT -6
I just bought an RPQ2. It can be a little glassy on certain condensers (because it's transformerless maybe?) but it absolutely kills on my m160s. Clean, low-noise gain, and thanks to the very useful onboard EQs, you can dial in a very nice sound with a ton of headroom. And to get around the glassiness I start with my API A2D and then patch the output through the RPQ2's line input, which then allows me to use the filters on it. The big difference between the 2 and the 3 is that you can only reduce low end and add high end on the 2, and on the 3 you can add and reduce both low end and high end, if that makes sense. Wasn't worth paying the extra $700-800 for that functionality on the 3, for me. Makes perfect sense
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Post by ab101 on Nov 9, 2023 18:54:54 GMT -6
If eq is not important, this is a preamp that was recommended to me by Mark Fouxman (Samar) and it is great on ribbons: www.integeraudio.com/rmp2-preamp.htmland sound samples on main page: www.integeraudio.com/p.s. it was fun seeing and hearing the Star Wars video with these pres and John Williams.
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Post by ironinthepath on Nov 9, 2023 18:59:44 GMT -6
I called AEA today and was fortunate enough to talk to somebody involved in designing RPQ3 changes from the RPQ2. While I agree that the difference in features unlikely to justify price difference alone, there were some claims about audible improvements sonically based on availability of new circuit components. To clarify, it’s my understanding that the circuit is still essentially the original (Fred F. design) but certain amplifier elements were updated.
Of course every audio company is likely to make that claim when putting out a new revision of a product. That being said, I know what a couple of those “under the hood” changes are (because I’m personally familiar with the company/designers responsible for one of the new circuit components, used to work there but not my work).
It would be great to get some opinions from anybody trying both. In any case though, it seems the RPQ2 stands on its own merits.
Thanks for your input.
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Post by ironinthepath on Nov 9, 2023 21:08:28 GMT -6
If eq is not important, this is a preamp that was recommended to me by Mark Fouxman (Samar) and it is great on ribbons: www.integeraudio.com/rmp2-preamp.htmland sound samples on main page: www.integeraudio.com/p.s. it was fun seeing and hearing the Star Wars video with these pres and John Williams. I went and checked this out -- the designer is very transparent about his design methodology (pun intended) --> everything he lists makes sense, and I have several of the THAT arrays he uses laying around (met Gary Hebert - the "H" from THAT years ago at AES). I was tempted to look into pricing but apparently all of his preamps are "Out of Stock". EDIT: but I should say that the simple to use EQ on the AEA RPQ is a big part of my interest - for straight clean gain with high input impedance I have Gordon Model 5
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Post by ab101 on Nov 9, 2023 21:28:33 GMT -6
If eq is not important, this is a preamp that was recommended to me by Mark Fouxman (Samar) and it is great on ribbons: www.integeraudio.com/rmp2-preamp.htmland sound samples on main page: www.integeraudio.com/p.s. it was fun seeing and hearing the Star Wars video with these pres and John Williams. I went and checked this out -- the designer is very transparent about his design methodology (pun intended) --> everything he lists makes sense, and I have several of the THAT arrays he uses laying around (met Gary Hebert - the "H" from THAT years ago at AES). I was tempted to look into pricing but apparently all of his preamps are "Out of Stock". EDIT: but I should say that the simple to use EQ on the AEA RPQ is a big part of my interest - for straight clean gain with high input impedance I have Gordon Model 5 It was $699 for 2 channels. I hope he makes some more soon. Anyway, the AEA unit is great.
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Post by teejay on Nov 9, 2023 21:42:20 GMT -6
Following. I'm looking at the RPQ and TRP both in 500 series for my RCA 44A. Biggest consideration is whether the 100K ohms input impedance on the TRP outweighs the 63K ohms input impedance and EQ options on the RPQ. I'm just reading the higher the impedance the better for a ribbon, but I'm sure there's some point of diminishing return.
Not trying to hijack the thread here. Just stating I'm in a similar situation of finding a great pre for my ribbon.
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Post by ironinthepath on Nov 9, 2023 23:12:11 GMT -6
Following. I'm looking at the RPQ and TRP both in 500 series for my RCA 44A. Biggest consideration is whether the 100K ohms input impedance on the TRP outweighs the 63K ohms input impedance.... No problem at all! I think it's likely that the 63k is fine vs. the 100k, as you said, probably past the point of diminishing returns. Being honest, they both might be past the point of diminishing returns - the Cloud-lifter Z has max of 15k Ohm (I have one but only tried it with Coles 4038, basically around 3k was enough for signal level to essentially level out). Also, the Focusrite ISA428 has switchable impedance settings and max is 6.8k. Also, there's another dedicated ribbon preamp called the Snow Petrel from Thermionic Culture has a max of only 2.2k (and is tube based design but also very expensive). The EQ seems like it might be the main thing when comparing TRP and RPQ overall. One other data point: Gordon Model 5 input resistance is 2000k Ohm (2M Ohm), certainly overkill -- but it's definitely ribbon capable
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Post by dok on Nov 9, 2023 23:32:18 GMT -6
For the longest time my Mackie Onyx 800R was my ribbon pre because it had switchable impedance up to 2400k Ohms, and there wasn't much that I ever had here that really beat it for clean gain for that specific purpose (among API, Phoenix, Daking, Langevin, Focusrite, Motu). A/B'd with the RPQ2 I still couldn't hear a ton of difference without the EQ engaged. But also my ears are shit and I'm an idiot, so keep that in mind. The EQ is definitely the force multiplier here in my opinion. All those other preamps I mentioned ended up going away except for the API and Onyx because they didn't bring enough to the table. The RPQ2 is staying.
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Post by christophert on Nov 10, 2023 3:21:06 GMT -6
I probably have said this multiple times in multiple places 🤣… It’s hard for me to use anything other than AEA preamps on my ribbon mics anymore. There are exceptions, especially on louder sources where I’m not fighting the noise floor or drums where I might want an even darker sound. For the most part, it’s just a night and day difference to me with that clean, super high impedance juice. My R88 pretty much lives plugged into my TRP. Ribbons aside, tube mics can sound amazing through the AEA ores as well. Hey andersmv - how are the AEA's compared to the Coils ?
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kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by kbb on Nov 10, 2023 4:00:00 GMT -6
My RPQ500's are the last preamps I would give up. I'd give up my other outboard pres and use Apollo unison pres for Neve/API types before giving up the RPQs. The ribbons I have or have had (R84, R88, R44) sound significantly more open and full frequency through them. IMO, it's not a subtle difference...it's a transformative one.
My only quibble is that there's no useful feedback on the EQ knobs. I think that's a big miss on a high pass filter where you're filtering difficult low frequencies.
Somebody mentioned Coils - I can't think of two mic pres more different than a Coil and a TRP/RPQ. I had a Coil 286 for awhile, and it was great with a Coles or R44 as super vintage sounding mono overhead, but that was about it (for my taste anyway).
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Post by andersmv on Nov 10, 2023 7:36:22 GMT -6
I probably have said this multiple times in multiple places 🤣… It’s hard for me to use anything other than AEA preamps on my ribbon mics anymore. There are exceptions, especially on louder sources where I’m not fighting the noise floor or drums where I might want an even darker sound. For the most part, it’s just a night and day difference to me with that clean, super high impedance juice. My R88 pretty much lives plugged into my TRP. Ribbons aside, tube mics can sound amazing through the AEA ores as well. Hey andersmv - how are the AEA's compared to the Coils ? I agree with everything KBB said, they couldn’t be more different. I fell in love with the Coils immediately because of their big and sweet they sounded, the Negative Feedback was also simple and effective. That’s all I want from a preamp, but it can be a bit extreme. With the AEA preamps, you get what’s in front of you in the mics natural state. When I’m reaching for a ribbon mic, I already have an idea in my head of wanting something to either sound “natural”, or just really colored. My stereo R88 is really beautiful sounding, if I like the source in the room where I’m standing and listening to it, I want to hear that when I go back in the control room. TRP preamp gives me that every time with as little noise floor as possible. I’ll have other instances where I’m going for something colored or vintage and know my old RCA PB-90 will be instant nostalgia. That mic doesn’t need any help from a preamp, it does the heavy lifting on its own and honestly sounds pretty bad to me on vocals and acoustic instruments on anything but the TRP. It’s not subtle, it’s a big difference. Running the PB-90 right into one of my API preamps on a vocal, I at least need a cloudlifter or something, otherwise it sounds like someone threw a shirt over the mic. I’ll stop rambling. You can cover a lot of ground between something like a TRP and Coil. Opposite ends of the spectrum though.
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Post by sean on Nov 10, 2023 7:55:11 GMT -6
I love my original RPQ...get used on every session. On occasion I'll use the low cut to get rid of rumble/proximity, and make the high shelf for something like overheads or acoustic guitar. I need to get another one.
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Post by Ward on Nov 10, 2023 8:57:36 GMT -6
If eq is not important, this is a preamp that was recommended to me by Mark Fouxman (Samar) and it is great on ribbons: www.integeraudio.com/rmp2-preamp.htmland sound samples on main page: www.integeraudio.com/p.s. it was fun seeing and hearing the Star Wars video with these pres and John Williams. Input impedance of 10,000 Ω ? Of course it's going to work! Haing one that could variably go from 10k to 30k would REALLY be amazing. Everyone who makes ribbons knows this, yet nobody has jumped on that opportunity.
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Post by ab101 on Nov 10, 2023 9:51:14 GMT -6
If eq is not important, this is a preamp that was recommended to me by Mark Fouxman (Samar) and it is great on ribbons: www.integeraudio.com/rmp2-preamp.htmland sound samples on main page: www.integeraudio.com/p.s. it was fun seeing and hearing the Star Wars video with these pres and John Williams. Input impedance of 10,000 Ω ? Of course it's going to work! Haing one that could variably go from 10k to 30k would REALLY be amazing. Everyone who makes ribbons knows this, yet nobody has jumped on that opportunity. Dave Cicero just wrote to me this morning indicating that he is working on a new batch right now. I will convey to him your variable impedance idea. That would be great! ADDENDUM: Dave wrote back again, the mic pre, which I have is shown in this article: www.soundonsound.com/reviews/integer-audio-rmp2 The three impedence choices he stated are about 300, 3K and 30K.
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Post by Ward on Nov 10, 2023 13:58:51 GMT -6
Input impedance of 10,000 Ω ? Of course it's going to work! Haing one that could variably go from 10k to 30k would REALLY be amazing. Everyone who makes ribbons knows this, yet nobody has jumped on that opportunity. Dave Cicero just wrote to me this morning indicating that he is working on a new batch right now. I will convey to him your variable impedance idea. That would be great! ADDENDUM: Dave wrote back again, the mic pre, which I have is shown in this article: www.soundonsound.com/reviews/integer-audio-rmp2 The three impedence choices he stated are about 300, 3K and 30K. Extremely interesting!
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kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by kbb on Nov 10, 2023 20:18:44 GMT -6
I fell in love with the Coils immediately because of their big and sweet they sounded, the Negative Feedback was also simple and effective...you can cover a lot of ground between something like a TRP and Coil. This! As I read your post, I remembered how cool the interactivity is between the simple EQ, gain(pad?), and neg feedback. In the month I had the CA-286, I remember getting quite a few different sounds playing with those. The differences between them were often subtle, but each of them was uniquely useful...I thought that was impressive. My stereo R88 is really beautiful sounding, if I like the source in the room where I’m standing and listening to it, I want to hear that when I go back in the control room. TRP preamp gives me that every time with as little noise floor as possible. I’ll have other instances where I’m going for something colored or vintage and know my old RCA PB-90 will be instant nostalgia. That mic doesn’t need any help from a preamp, it does the heavy lifting on its own and honestly sounds pretty bad to me on vocals and acoustic instruments on anything but the TRP. It’s not subtle, it’s a big difference. Running the PB-90 right into one of my API preamps on a vocal, I at least need a cloudlifter or something, otherwise it sounds like someone threw a shirt over the mic. This is exactly where I end up every time now. I got hooked on preamps decades ago when I plugged an AT-4033 into a weird external half rack space Groove Tubes preamp at a friend's studio. Coming from Mackie VLZ mixer preamps, it was a revelation, and preamps became my coping mechanism for that era's digital audio (Digi 002/003, the first Apogee Ensemble) - even as I upgraded mics from a Soundelux U195 to a Peluso 2247 LE, then a Lawson L47, etc. Recording in good studios with Rosetta 800's, the first Lynx Aurora (which I liked!), a Big Ben, etc., I still clung to preamps like a security blanket to take the edge off digital audio. Enter AEA and the TRP! Hearing clean, hifi ribbon sound was the next revelation; it fixed pretty much what I didn't like about digital. Conversion has improved enough that I can appreciate a nice condenser mic, but I still rarely reach for one recording my stuff (acoustic instruments, electric, drums, vocals...normal band kind of setup). I have a pair of RPQ500's now, and if I'm honest, I'm not confident enough in the filters to commit with them during tracking and so they're rarely used. Maybe its my monitoring, or my overall level of experience, but IME, it's too easy to high pass too much or not enough, and the high band is either very subtle, or sometimes even nasty and noisy depending on the starting frequency...even after a fair amount of tinkering, I still haven't found their sweet spots...I don' t usually have that problem with gear. andersmv , re: the shirt over the mic/Cloudlifter, are you using the Cloudlifter "Z" by chance? I wouldn't trade mine for the world. IMO, Coles 4038's (that I'm married to) are SUPER sensitive and variable with that knob. To my ears, it can open that mic way way up through any pre I've tried. I think AEA through TRP is its own super special thing, so you don't TRP accuracy with the Coles and Z, but there's not a hint of shirt over the mic syndrome! I've gotten some of favorite vocal sounds with the 4038 and the Z. :-)
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Post by sirthought on Nov 11, 2023 1:15:58 GMT -6
All the versions of the AEA preamp are quality and totally deserve attention to anyone wondering how they stack up in the marketplace.
I think the EQ option would be the ideal choice, especially for some ribbon mics that sound lovely, but might need some high end polish. I doubt that the jump from 2 to 3 is so important, but if you can get a fuller featured EQ, why not?
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 11, 2023 15:45:35 GMT -6
I love my RPQ 500. It is so clean but in a really nice way. Totally love it with ribbons.
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