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Post by geoff738 on Nov 9, 2023 12:17:32 GMT -6
Ok, wondering if this is at all viable come mix time. Has delay compensation come far enough that this could work (I’m on Logic if that matters) or are we still looking at phase nightmares etc?
I think I already know the answer. Technically possible but, nope is my expectation.
A compressor that I love and is no longer made that I own one of has come up for sale locally. Can’t really afford it or justify it since I’m only recording me these days. Would love to make it work on stereo sources, but I suspect I may soon have a stereo pair?
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 9, 2023 12:55:15 GMT -6
Im not sure what youre asking exactly.
Can you use a piece of gear during mix down on just one of the tracks? Yeah, thats what delay compensation is for. Should be totally fine.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 9, 2023 12:57:01 GMT -6
Yeah, you don't want to get involved doing something like this. I totally understand the impulse behind it, but no, not a great thing IMO.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 9, 2023 12:58:16 GMT -6
Im not sure what youre asking exactly. Can you use a piece of gear during mix down on just one of the tracks? Yeah, thats what delay compensation is for. Should be totally fine. I think he's talking about bouncing his mix twice: once with the mono compressor on the L channel, and once with it on the R channel, then stitching them together in post. At least that's how I'm taking his question...
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Post by geoff738 on Nov 9, 2023 13:05:08 GMT -6
Im not sure what youre asking exactly. Can you use a piece of gear during mix down on just one of the tracks? Yeah, thats what delay compensation is for. Should be totally fine. I think he's talking about bouncing his mix twice: once with the mono compressor on the L channel, and once with it on the R channel, then stitching them together in post. At least that's how I'm taking his question... Yeah, exactly Mix, drum buss, stereo whatever. With one mono piece of hardware, thinking mostly compression or eq. Wiz had a way of lining things up at least at the start, by putting a single sample right at the start and lining those up, iirc. Not sure if over the course of a few minute song whether delay compensation might drift? Cheers, Geoff
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 9, 2023 13:26:18 GMT -6
Done it and it isn’t fun, compression is a no, no because the channels are not keying off each other and imaging gets weird.
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Post by Ward on Nov 9, 2023 13:30:20 GMT -6
So you're still talking about a hybrid mix setup, even if you're only running one groups with hardware inserts. I'd like to call in a friend . .. drbill
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Post by geoff738 on Nov 9, 2023 13:41:11 GMT -6
Well, the compressor I was hoping to buy has been sold. Bummer.
I do have a couple stereo comps, both vca. And many itb options.
So, not the end of the world.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by drbill on Nov 9, 2023 14:58:13 GMT -6
So you're still talking about a hybrid mix setup, even if you're only running one groups with hardware inserts. I'd like to call in a friend . .. drbill . Yes..... What can I do to be of service?
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Post by drbill on Nov 9, 2023 15:02:16 GMT -6
Yeah, exactly Mix, drum buss, stereo whatever. With one mono piece of hardware, thinking mostly compression or eq. Wiz had a way of lining things up at least at the start, by putting a single sample right at the start and lining those up, iirc. Not sure if over the course of a few minute song whether delay compensation might drift? Cheers, Geoff On the mixbuss right? It's not going to drift. It will remain stable. You don't even need delay compensation. Both L and R with have the same amount of latency from the raw tracks, which is fine. They are L/R. You just need a lot of patience, and a reason to do something that doesn't make any sense (to me anyway...)
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Post by geoff738 on Nov 9, 2023 15:11:57 GMT -6
Yeah, exactly Mix, drum buss, stereo whatever. With one mono piece of hardware, thinking mostly compression or eq. Wiz had a way of lining things up at least at the start, by putting a single sample right at the start and lining those up, iirc. Not sure if over the course of a few minute song whether delay compensation might drift? Cheers, Geoff On the mixbuss right? It's not going to drift. It will remain stable. You don't even need delay compensation. Both L and R with have the same amount of latency from the raw tracks, which is fine. They are L/R. You just need a lot of patience, and a reason to do something that doesn't make any sense (to me anyway...) Some of us are more equipment challenged than others. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by lowlou on Nov 9, 2023 15:32:19 GMT -6
Now That Protools has scripting capabilities, you could always create custom routines to record left and right serially. I opened Protools once. Total noob on it. I jut know that they have new custom actions capabilities.
On Reaper however, that I practice like a maniac, I'm pretty sure you can pull it off. It surely can do more complex stuff.
I created my recording routine. One click on a Stream Deck Elgato and Reaper does everything. It does a mono to stereo thing, for example. Your request, but just the other way around.
xxxx
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 9, 2023 21:14:58 GMT -6
I think he's talking about bouncing his mix twice: once with the mono compressor on the L channel, and once with it on the R channel, then stitching them together in post. At least that's how I'm taking his question... Yeah, exactly Mix, drum buss, stereo whatever. With one mono piece of hardware, thinking mostly compression or eq. Wiz had a way of lining things up at least at the start, by putting a single sample right at the start and lining those up, iirc. Not sure if over the course of a few minute song whether delay compensation might drift? Cheers, Geoff Ah. Gotcha. The way to do this would be to print your track in 2 mono tracks. That said. I'm not sure I'd do it. Pretty big pain to do it.
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Post by copperx on Nov 9, 2023 21:18:20 GMT -6
Ok, wondering if this is at all viable come mix time. Has delay compensation come far enough that this could work (I’m on Logic if that matters) or are we still looking at phase nightmares etc? I think I already know the answer. Technically possible but, nope is my expectation. A compressor that I love and is no longer made that I own one of has come up for sale locally. Can’t really afford it or justify it since I’m only recording me these days. Would love to make it work on stereo sources, but I suspect I may soon have a stereo pair? Cheers, Geoff
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Post by copperx on Nov 9, 2023 21:31:05 GMT -6
Ok, wondering if this is at all viable come mix time. Has delay compensation come far enough that this could work (I’m on Logic if that matters) or are we still looking at phase nightmares etc? I think I already know the answer. Technically possible but, nope is my expectation. A compressor that I love and is no longer made that I own one of has come up for sale locally. Can’t really afford it or justify it since I’m only recording me these days. Would love to make it work on stereo sources, but I suspect I may soon have a stereo pair? Cheers, Geoff I'm glad to report that this is 100% doable with absolutely zero phase issues. I've run a single hardware insert across dozens of tracks. To make it practical, you need a scriptable DAW like Reaper. I have a script that I wrote to do exactly this. You select all the tracks that you want to print through hardware and the script plays and records every track through that device without having to lift a finger. This can save you 50% of your hardware budget for mixing (a mono unit will do the job of a stereo unit) IF you are patient and you have the time to wait for the renders. I'm pretty sure that many people don't have the patience for this; however, many of us have more time that money. Needless to say, you have to keep recall notes as you go in case you have to go back and re-render stuff. In my experience, rendering as you can be fun as you don't have all options available to you all the time. You commit, and then go to the next track. We used to freeze plugins mixing ITB 20 years ago because CPUs couldn't keep up, and we made it work. This is the same thing but using hardware.
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Post by anders on Nov 10, 2023 1:05:05 GMT -6
It is doable (I have at one point done it on 8 tracks through a single channel strip, one by one. Tedious, but doable).
If you're scared about stereo imaging in compression, you could set up a second DAW output with a mono L+R mix to drive the sidechain on both passes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2023 9:53:10 GMT -6
Don’t do it. Use a dedicated stereo compressor made for that purpose. You won’t be able to monitor your fake stereo compressor in real time and mix into it. The channels will be unlinked so stereo image will shift unless you sum them to mono and feed that as the sidechain to both sides. Then your compressor will compress the center 6 db more than the sides and will not see any out of phase content and you won’t be able to adjust the faders in real time to compensate.
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Post by anders on Nov 10, 2023 11:03:36 GMT -6
Don’t do it. Use a dedicated stereo compressor made for that purpose. You won’t be able to monitor your fake stereo compressor in real time and mix into it. The channels will be unlinked so stereo image will shift unless you sum them to mono and feed that as the sidechain to both sides. Then your compressor will compress the center 6 db more than the sides and will not see any out of phase content and you won’t be able to adjust the faders in real time to compensate. I do agree it's not ideal, but if the alternative isn't "use a stereo unit", but "you can't do it", I contend it will under some circumstances be better/more interesting than nothing. The center compression issue CAN be (again not ideal, but possible) alleviated by making the sidechain mono mix have a (for instance) 3 dB lower signal from the opposite channel for each pass.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2023 12:47:00 GMT -6
Don’t do it. Use a dedicated stereo compressor made for that purpose. You won’t be able to monitor your fake stereo compressor in real time and mix into it. The channels will be unlinked so stereo image will shift unless you sum them to mono and feed that as the sidechain to both sides. Then your compressor will compress the center 6 db more than the sides and will not see any out of phase content and you won’t be able to adjust the faders in real time to compensate. I do agree it's not ideal, but if the alternative isn't "use a stereo unit", but "you can't do it", I contend it will under some circumstances be better/more interesting than nothing. The center compression issue CAN be (again not ideal, but possible) alleviated by making the sidechain mono mix have a (for instance) 3 dB lower signal from the opposite channel for each pass. that’s a good point, you can mid side eq the stereo side chain send before summing to mono for the side chain. But yeah at that point just use a plug. The glue is good. It’s better than the ssl native, waves, and UAD. Presswerk is even cooler and has an easy mode bus compressor simplified layout. Kotelnikov GE has presets to compact a vocal or drum bus without changing them drastically that work well. These are 10 to 130 bucks. For 130 bucks what good hardware can you get? No presently manufactured hardware can do what Kotelnikov and Presswerk can do at any price point.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 12, 2023 2:34:13 GMT -6
Or get a stereo compressor that can be dual mono and then you have "three" compressors in 1.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 12, 2023 10:52:24 GMT -6
It is doable (I have at one point done it on 8 tracks through a single channel strip, one by one. Tedious, but doable). If you're scared about stereo imaging in compression, you could set up a second DAW output with a mono L+R mix to drive the sidechain on both passes. This is an option, but many compressors don’t treat the detector as left + right it’s individual detectors on each channel, the phase and levels of individual channels is going to react differently than a summed signal.
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