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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2023 10:52:28 GMT -6
Taylor Swift’s 1989 re-recording is egregious.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2023 13:41:40 GMT -6
I kind of feel sorry for the gang who first used it on Cher, it was a very original modulation effect, it works in the context of the song, and was kind of cool once. Little did they know every pop and hip hop track would copy it for over 20 years, but in the context of once it was kind of cool.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2023 18:40:27 GMT -6
Taylor Swift’s 1989 re-recording is egregious. Shh the neighborhood is covered in swiftest trying to figure out where her and Travis are spending Halloween. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 1, 2023 6:55:46 GMT -6
The most egregious use of AT IMHO has been it's push into Jazz vocals and musical theater vocals. Now, I'm ok with tuning a note here or there to fix 1 or 2 things. Don't get me wrong. It happens. This lazy habit of just putting Autotune on a track, setting and forgetting it, or pushing Melodyne to 100% on everything, drives me nuts. I don't want to hear the tuning, especially in this context.
In regards to jazz vocals, thehightenor mentioned Michael Buble. There are actually a number of videos tearing apart it's use on his live performances. He'll go to do a jazz riff or vocal slide, and the autotune has no idea what's going on and totally messes the performance up. Whether that is his team or the show's he's on, it's an issue. I was recently listening to the new Laufey album Bewitched. It's a really nice jazz vocal album. Check out here Bosa Nova track " From the Start." It's a nice listen. But the vocal is melodyned to 100%. She does a riff or a scat and it's just unnatural sounding and took me right out of the album, cause there isn't any variance.
The new live action remakes from Disney have been disastrously tuned. The sound track to Beauty and the Beast is atrocious. They even tune to death Josh Groban's cover in the end credits. He's another singer with a solid voice. The Little Mermaid isn't as bad, but the singing is better in it in general. Still, AT is all over it. The Greatest Showman decided to just make a pop album. Its just tuned to death. Considering the all the Broadway veterans in the cast, it definitely didn't need to be, but maybe this approach was why it crossed so well into the mainstream pop world. So what do I know?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Nov 1, 2023 7:17:35 GMT -6
The most egregious use of AT IMHO has been it's push into Jazz vocals and musical theater vocals. Now, I'm ok with tuning a note here or there to fix 1 or 2 things. Don't get me wrong. It happens. This lazy habit of just putting Autotune on a track, setting and forgetting it, or pushing Melodyne to 100% on everything, drives me nuts. I don't want to hear the tuning, especially in this context.
In regards to jazz vocals, thehightenor mentioned Michael Buble. There are actually a number of videos tearing apart it's use on his live performances. He'll go to do a jazz riff or vocal slide, and the autotune has no idea what's going on and totally messes the performance up. Whether that is his team or the show's he's on, it's an issue. I was recently listening to the new Laufey album Bewitched. It's a really nice jazz vocal album. Check out here Bosa Nova track " From the Start." It's a nice listen. But the vocal is melodyned to 100%. She does a riff or a scat and it's just unnatural sounding and took me right out of the album, cause there isn't any variance.
The new live action remakes from Disney have been disastrously tuned. The sound track to Beauty and the Beast is atrocious. They even tune to death Josh Groban's cover in the end credits. He's another singer with a solid voice. The Little Mermaid isn't as bad, but the singing is better in it in general. Still, AT is all over it. The Greatest Showman decided to just make a pop album. Its just tuned to death. Considering the all the Broadway veterans in the cast, it definitely didn't need to be, but maybe this approach was why it crossed so well into the mainstream pop world. So what do I know?
I will admit to keeping Anteres hardware in the live rack to gently help a bit. It’s just to damn easy to become reliant on it and hilarious to see someone who is missing a note and knows it to see the look on their face as the wedges spit it out correctly. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 1, 2023 9:00:37 GMT -6
I will admit to keeping Anteres hardware in the live rack to gently help a bit. It’s just to damn easy to become reliant on it and hilarious to see someone who is missing a note and knows it to see the look on their face as the wedges spit it out correctly. I find that scenario very appealing. |
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Post by Quint on Nov 1, 2023 9:19:04 GMT -6
This remains tops for me. Not only is AT used everywhere, it's used so poorly that it doesn't even tune to the right notes on the BG vocals.
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Post by mcirish on Nov 1, 2023 11:24:53 GMT -6
I honestly don't think many people even understand what a real voice sounds like anymore. Everything has been autotuned to the point that there is no emotion in the delivery. Half of what makes blues style singing work so well is the bends and the just pulling to pitch at the last part of the phrase... Or maybe not at all. The imperfections are what makes music perfect. When pitch is always perfect, it doesn't create the tension that's need to sell an emotion.
Preaching to the choir here.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 1, 2023 11:30:54 GMT -6
About a month ago, I had to cut some video footage to a Michael Bublé song, and I was frankly astonished at how awful the vocal tuning sounded, and like thehightenor and Vincent R. said above, it's not like Buble needs to be tuned. He's got a good voice and good pitch without it. |
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Post by sam on Nov 1, 2023 11:55:10 GMT -6
The last song on the new Blink record is baaaad for this. Like I know Tom has a bit of a goofy voice, but someone should have caught that.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 1, 2023 12:10:10 GMT -6
When I got stopped for running a red light. I got off. Told the officer I drove through... Between blinks.  Chris |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 2, 2023 2:48:07 GMT -6
The most egregious use of AT IMHO has been it's push into Jazz vocals and musical theater vocals. Now, I'm ok with tuning a note here or there to fix 1 or 2 things. Don't get me wrong. It happens. This lazy habit of just putting Autotune on a track, setting and forgetting it, or pushing Melodyne to 100% on everything, drives me nuts. I don't want to hear the tuning, especially in this context.
In regards to jazz vocals, thehightenor mentioned Michael Buble. There are actually a number of videos tearing apart it's use on his live performances. He'll go to do a jazz riff or vocal slide, and the autotune has no idea what's going on and totally messes the performance up. Whether that is his team or the show's he's on, it's an issue. I was recently listening to the new Laufey album Bewitched. It's a really nice jazz vocal album. Check out here Bosa Nova track " From the Start." It's a nice listen. But the vocal is melodyned to 100%. She does a riff or a scat and it's just unnatural sounding and took me right out of the album, cause there isn't any variance.
The new live action remakes from Disney have been disastrously tuned. The sound track to Beauty and the Beast is atrocious. They even tune to death Josh Groban's cover in the end credits. He's another singer with a solid voice. The Little Mermaid isn't as bad, but the singing is better in it in general. Still, AT is all over it. The Greatest Showman decided to just make a pop album. Its just tuned to death. Considering the all the Broadway veterans in the cast, it definitely didn't need to be, but maybe this approach was why it crossed so well into the mainstream pop world. So what do I know?
I will admit to keeping Anteres hardware in the live rack to gently help a bit. It’s just to damn easy to become reliant on it and hilarious to see someone who is missing a note and knows it to see the look on their face as the wedges spit it out correctly. I was listening to one of my songs a few days ago and thought I really did a good job of the studio vocal recording. Then I realised when guitarist started soloing at the outro it was actually a “live show” recording. A smile of pride came to me, my live vocal was so spot on I’d thought it was the edited studio recording. In truth, I do put this pitch accuracy down to me using a very high quality IEM system. I like to do some subtle blues/jazz bending and glissandos etc and AT would be terrible! Singing in tune is the number 1 job of the lead vocalist - you have to tick that box first! |
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 2, 2023 3:40:02 GMT -6
It’s becoming the new “standard”. Just like crushed to death masters. I guess people think, that’s just what you do to a vocal now?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Nov 2, 2023 5:49:54 GMT -6
I will admit to keeping Anteres hardware in the live rack to gently help a bit. It’s just to damn easy to become reliant on it and hilarious to see someone who is missing a note and knows it to see the look on their face as the wedges spit it out correctly. I was listening to one of my songs a few days ago and thought I really did a good job of the studio vocal recording. Then I realised when guitarist started soloing at the outro it was actually a “live show” recording. A smile of pride came to me, my live vocal was so spot on I’d thought it was the edited studio recording. In truth, I do put this pitch accuracy down to me using a very high quality IEM system. I like to do some subtle blues/jazz bending and glissandos etc and AT would be terrible! Singing in tune is the number 1 job of the lead vocalist - you have to tick that box first! BUT you forget 1 important point, you can actually sing 😁 Unfortunately in this day and age of pop music the ability to actually sing is not a job requirement to be a lead vocalist. |
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Post by bossanova on Nov 2, 2023 8:14:00 GMT -6
The most egregious use of AT IMHO has been it's push into Jazz vocals and musical theater vocals. Now, I'm ok with tuning a note here or there to fix 1 or 2 things. Don't get me wrong. It happens. This lazy habit of just putting Autotune on a track, setting and forgetting it, or pushing Melodyne to 100% on everything, drives me nuts. I don't want to hear the tuning, especially in this context.
In regards to jazz vocals, thehightenor mentioned Michael Buble. There are actually a number of videos tearing apart it's use on his live performances. He'll go to do a jazz riff or vocal slide, and the autotune has no idea what's going on and totally messes the performance up. Whether that is his team or the show's he's on, it's an issue. I was recently listening to the new Laufey album Bewitched. It's a really nice jazz vocal album. Check out here Bosa Nova track " From the Start." It's a nice listen. But the vocal is melodyned to 100%. She does a riff or a scat and it's just unnatural sounding and took me right out of the album, cause there isn't any variance.
The new live action remakes from Disney have been disastrously tuned. The sound track to Beauty and the Beast is atrocious. They even tune to death Josh Groban's cover in the end credits. He's another singer with a solid voice. The Little Mermaid isn't as bad, but the singing is better in it in general. Still, AT is all over it. The Greatest Showman decided to just make a pop album. Its just tuned to death. Considering the all the Broadway veterans in the cast, it definitely didn't need to be, but maybe this approach was why it crossed so well into the mainstream pop world. So what do I know?
I remember the Rent film soundtrack being the first Broadway-adjacent album to have noticeable Autotune. And even then it was more subtle in most places than what you hear today. The tuning on what I’ve heard from Little Mermaid sounds atrocious. Glee is one of the first cases I remember with theater music and Autotune set to Stun. That’s a shame [regarding] Buble. I remember that video of him singing with a vocal group in the subway from years ago, and he clearly didn’t need any help. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 2, 2023 8:30:05 GMT -6
I've seen Michael Buble a few times. Emily saw him right before he blew up too. He doesn't need any help, but the engineers, or more likely, the studios are pushing "the sound."
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Post by Ward on Nov 2, 2023 9:25:17 GMT -6
I've seen Michael Buble a few times. Emily saw him right before he blew up too. He doesn't need any help, but the engineers, or more likely, the studios are pushing "the sound." but why? Just for the vibrato control functions? Which begs the question: Which is worse, the unrealistic pitch correction or the dehumanizing vibrato removal robotic sounding aspect ? |
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 2, 2023 9:48:31 GMT -6
I've seen Michael Buble a few times. Emily saw him right before he blew up too. He doesn't need any help, but the engineers, or more likely, the studios are pushing "the sound." but why? Just for the vibrato control functions? Which begs the question: Which is worse, the unrealistic pitch correction or the dehumanizing vibrato removal robotic sounding aspect ? The people who control our industry are not musicians and not engineers. They are business people and they hold the real power. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Nov 2, 2023 21:06:05 GMT -6
I've seen Michael Buble a few times. Emily saw him right before he blew up too. He doesn't need any help, but the engineers, or more likely, the studios are pushing "the sound." It’s Michael as much as the industry, unfortunately there is more money in selling Buble water, than his performance so why invest the time? Then we have the world of $100 tickets, Damn it he better be on pitch, no mater how much that Clair rig distorts! |
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