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Post by svart on Oct 11, 2023 7:00:12 GMT -6
I don't know what their bottom line is, but I wouldn't be surprised if multi-$100 plugs that require external hardware to use aren't selling like they used to. They probably rode the reputation of that legacy code for as long as they could. This runs natively you just install using ua connect. UA is still deep discounting the Ultimate bundle and pushing its subscription model. It needs an installer? Count me out. I already have a number of installers that I don't want. Just go back to single plugs and a license file. I hate the "gotta be online" authentication for 1/3rd of them. ILOK for 1/3rd and license files for 1/3rd. Life was so much simpler when I could keep a folder with a plug's installer and the license file and just reinstall that way. |
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2023 7:53:38 GMT -6
Sure, but if the company is doing emulations and not innovative DSP, then everybody is going to compare the plugins to hardware. Comparisons to hardware are inevitable. There is nothing innovative about DSP. DSP doesn't do anything better or more special than any other processor. It just allows you to dedicate a certain amount of processing power to certain specific tasks, which can make it deterministic in various ways, such as delay. Or it can simply lighten a load from a general-purpose processor like the CPU which has a lot of random tasks and wastes a lot of time doing so. I hear what you're saying about raw processing power. Computers have Sharc chips beat there. But from a latency standpoint, I still like DSP (in the Apollo), and it's worth it to me to pay for it and not have to worry about messing with buffers and all of that. And now with automatic switching between native and DSP (in the Apollo) plugins in Luna, I don't really think about any of that stuff at all. It just does what it does and stays out of the way. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 11, 2023 10:29:00 GMT -6
“It's the silver algo with the legacy GUI. We've tuned it to sound good right out of the gate on all sources.” Not sure if you're serious or joking.
That was a quote from Drew on the UAD forum |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 11, 2023 10:36:19 GMT -6
It's so bizarre seeing UA morphing from being a "don't call us, we'll call you" kind of company into an audio Kohl's. I truly don't understand what's their end game. Twenty years ago they still had the UAD mystique; the rumor was that UAD plugins were almost like hardware, and at the same time, you couldn't verify that claim without buying into the whole system. I'm sure they thrived just because of that. Now that their plugins are native, everybody can see that the emperor has no clothes. Sure, some of their offerings are fantastic, but it's hard to justify buying thousands of dollars of DSP hardware or having to install the UA Connect / iLok Cloud malware combo when there are much cheaper, equivalent options that don't require such inconveniences. So what's next? Everything's on sale every day? Maybe the MBAs are right and that's the way to go nowadays. People woke up and realized that the cost of dedicated DSP hardware is mostly wasted these days. You can run just as many native plugs on a modern CPU today as you could on a DSP card from a decade ago. Lots of plugs were never sonically any different on DSP despite being touted as such. They sounded exactly the same.. But the wallet-ear syndrome tends to make folks who spend a lot of money on something *hear* a big difference, and then they're locked into the ecosystem and the workflow, so they're not going to be doing a lot of honest comparisons. And "sales every day".. You mean the Waves model? Before this current iteration of computers, I was very, very thankful for dsp. Didn’t have to freeze tracks. I still think even with my current computer that working completely without dsp, I’d run out of power. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 11:24:22 GMT -6
People woke up and realized that the cost of dedicated DSP hardware is mostly wasted these days. You can run just as many native plugs on a modern CPU today as you could on a DSP card from a decade ago. Lots of plugs were never sonically any different on DSP despite being touted as such. They sounded exactly the same.. But the wallet-ear syndrome tends to make folks who spend a lot of money on something *hear* a big difference, and then they're locked into the ecosystem and the workflow, so they're not going to be doing a lot of honest comparisons. What you say is true, but it was actually true more than a dozen years ago. Case in point: when I was at Lexicon, I chose an expensive and very high speed variant of the SHARC (called the TigerSHARC) for the PCM-96. I was able to get two instantiations of Random Hall onto it. A year or so later, when we were through with the PCM series, I took the SHARC code (all in C++) and moved it to a Mac Pro. I think this was probably a 2010 machine. I kept the C++ code exactly as it was, with the exception of some SHARC DMA operations that I removed. Whipped up a cheesy GUI and had a Random Hall plugin. After a few days of tidying up, I looked at the CPU usage meter and saw the plug was barely making a dent. So I had one of the testers pile on instantiations of the plug. He quit at about 50, just out of sheer boredom. There was room on the Mac for more, but the point had been proven. The Intel chipset of the day was blowing the SHARC away. By coincidence, the rep for Analog Devices came in that week (he was a good guy). He dropped into my office for a catch-up and eventually asked me what I was doing. So I showed him. I could see him actually get weak in the knees and sit down. His life was probably flashing in front on him  It took a lot longer for customers to catch on to the implications of that little experiment, but the reality has finally sunk in. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2023 11:57:25 GMT -6
This is how UA described it on the uadforum I would have figured it was modeled after the reissue they currently sell Nah that would cut into profits, repackage the old so it’s new again, give it away so everyone wants the new one because new is always better. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Oct 11, 2023 12:40:21 GMT -6
It's so bizarre seeing UA morphing from being a "don't call us, we'll call you" kind of company into an audio Kohl's. I truly don't understand what's their end game. Twenty years ago they still had the UAD mystique; the rumor was that UAD plugins were almost like hardware, and at the same time, you couldn't verify that claim without buying into the whole system. I'm sure they thrived just because of that. Now that their plugins are native, everybody can see that the emperor has no clothes. Sure, some of their offerings are fantastic, but it's hard to justify buying thousands of dollars of DSP hardware or having to install the UA Connect / iLok Cloud malware combo when there are much cheaper, equivalent options that don't require such inconveniences. So what's next? Everything's on sale every day? Maybe the MBAs are right and that's the way to go nowadays. People woke up and realized that the cost of dedicated DSP hardware is mostly wasted these days. You can run just as many native plugs on a modern CPU today as you could on a DSP card from a decade ago. Lots of plugs were never sonically any different on DSP despite being touted as such. They sounded exactly the same.. But the wallet-ear syndrome tends to make folks who spend a lot of money on something *hear* a big difference, and then they're locked into the ecosystem and the workflow, so they're not going to be doing a lot of honest comparisons. And "sales every day".. You mean the Waves model? Well, I do see the dsp having a solid place still. A majority of my plugs are uad. And I must say I really enjoy having an almost done mix and still be able to go back and track on 32samples when needed without freezing or inactivating tracks. I have an apollo twin and octo sat and they mostly make it thru the whole mix. Hitsville reverb chambers is the only plug I occasionally end up using also as native if I run out of dsp. So the native uad plugs have found their way into my library but rarely used. This is something I could not achieve in native despite my pimped out M processor. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2023 13:33:49 GMT -6
People woke up and realized that the cost of dedicated DSP hardware is mostly wasted these days. You can run just as many native plugs on a modern CPU today as you could on a DSP card from a decade ago. Lots of plugs were never sonically any different on DSP despite being touted as such. They sounded exactly the same.. But the wallet-ear syndrome tends to make folks who spend a lot of money on something *hear* a big difference, and then they're locked into the ecosystem and the workflow, so they're not going to be doing a lot of honest comparisons. And "sales every day".. You mean the Waves model? Well, I do see the dsp having a solid place still. A majority of my plugs are uad. And I must say I really enjoy having an almost done mix and still be able to go back and track on 32samples when needed without freezing or inactivating tracks. I have an apollo twin and octo sat and they mostly make it thru the whole mix. Hitsville reverb chambers is the only plug I occasionally end up using also as native if I run out of dsp. So the native uad plugs have found their way into my library but rarely used. This is something I could not achieve in native despite my pimped out M processor. If we make this into a DSP / Native debate the one key advantage of DSP is latency. The price of raw power of native is just stupid silly low, but first most popular native systems need to do a better job of utilizing multi cores and then achieve the latency of DSP. This is why Post / ADR / and Foley are dominated by PT HD/ HDX and to a much lesser degree Fairlight. The intersection of all this is Luna. UA has to realize that it really benefited from the limitations of Native in the past and that most of its customer base embraced native, now Luna seams to be a “ poor man’s HDX” but it really seams to be aimed strictly at music vs Video / Post functions that HDX and Fairlight have embraced and dominated. One of the biggest ironies here is AVID and Fairlight have also seen the light as far as hybrid native/ DSP, probably long term solution, unless of course Apple concentrates its chip development on low latency and easily used multi core use ( huge advantage when you build the machine, write the OS and both video and Audio apps). |
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2023 13:43:53 GMT -6
Well, I do see the dsp having a solid place still. A majority of my plugs are uad. And I must say I really enjoy having an almost done mix and still be able to go back and track on 32samples when needed without freezing or inactivating tracks. I have an apollo twin and octo sat and they mostly make it thru the whole mix. Hitsville reverb chambers is the only plug I occasionally end up using also as native if I run out of dsp. So the native uad plugs have found their way into my library but rarely used. This is something I could not achieve in native despite my pimped out M processor. If we make this into a DSP / Native debate the one key advantage of DSP is latency. The price of raw power of native is just stupid silly low, but first most popular native systems need to do a better job of utilizing multi cores and then achieve the latency of DSP. This is why Post / ADR / and Foley are dominated by PT HD/ HDX and to a much lesser degree Fairlight. The intersection of all this is Luna. UA has to realize that it really benefited from the limitations of Native in the past and that most of its customer base embraced native, now Luna seams to be a “ poor man’s HDX” but it really seams to be aimed strictly at music vs Video / Post functions that HDX and Fairlight have embraced and dominated. One of the biggest ironies here is AVID and Fairlight have also seen the light as far as hybrid native/ DSP, probably long term solution, unless of course Apple concentrates its chip development on low latency and easily used multi core use ( huge advantage when you build the machine, write the OS and both video and Audio apps). A poor man's HDX with access to a much better lineup of DSP plugins than what Avid offers. That's the advantage UA has over Avid, specifically concerning the music world, even though the routing on the Apollos isn't close to what HDX can do, not that you necessarily need ALL of that routing for most music projects. That said, the routing on Apollos has always been an Achilles heel, and UA really needs to address that with the new Apollos and just add some more damn routing capabilities already. It doesn't have to be HDX level, but maybe I'd like a few more DSP cues or auxes?!? It's getting obstinate at this point.... Just do it already UA! UA has come out and said that they are only interested in doing music, and not video. I believe them too, because, frankly, they wouldn't be able to handle the post business operating as they do now. There are things that music folks might put up with that the post crowd would not. UA moves awful slow... |
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Post by ragan on Oct 11, 2023 13:49:38 GMT -6
I’m kind of tempted by the cross grade offers. Mostly I just want the EMT-140, which I don’t think is offered natively yet.
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2023 13:59:55 GMT -6
I’m kind of tempted by the cross grade offers. Mostly I just want the EMT-140, which I don’t think is offered natively yet. It isn't offered natively yet, and, given that they have released Pure Plate natively, which is to one degree or another based on the 140 code, it might be a long time before the 140 gets ported over to native. UA has been milking things with the DSP to native ports, in a painfully slow way. They know that the 140 is popular. If they were gonna do it anytime soon, they already would have done it instead of porting Pure Plate to native, in my opinion. That's why I'm saying it will be a while, or possibly never. There could be licensing issues too. I know UA ran into that with the Neve plugins as well as Roland, Boss, etc. There may also never be native ports of the SSL plugins either, for the same reasons. These companies all agreed to license their names when UA was the biggest monster in the room, and no one else was really doing the plugin emulation game to the degree that UA was. A lot has changed though. A lot of companies are releasing their own plugin emulations now to get in on the action. So UA may get boxed in on some of these native ports. The DSP version might be all you ever get, OR you might get a rebadged version like Pure Plate. All of that is to say, maybe try Pure Plate? It's not exactly the same thing, but, as I understand it, it's based on the same 140 code, and it's available on native now. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Oct 11, 2023 14:07:08 GMT -6
I’m kind of tempted by the cross grade offers. Mostly I just want the EMT-140, which I don’t think is offered natively yet. Have you tried the arturia 140? Despite I use plenty of uad plugs I have a set of arturia plugs that I use on every mix, and the reverb 140 is one of them. Worth while checking it out if u r looking for a native emt 140 style reverb. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2023 14:10:31 GMT -6
I’m kind of tempted by the cross grade offers. Mostly I just want the EMT-140, which I don’t think is offered natively yet. It isn't offered natively yet, and, given that they have released Pure Plate natively, which is to one degree or another based on the 140 code, it might be a long time before the 140 gets ported over to native. UA has been milking things with the DSP to native ports, in a painfully slow way. They know that the 140 is popular. If they were gonna do it anytime soon, they already would have done it instead of porting Pure Plate to native, in my opinion. That's why I'm saying it will be a while, or possibly never. There could be licensing issues too. I know UA ran into that with the Neve plugins as well as Roland, Boss, etc. There may also never be native ports of the SSL plugins either, for the same reasons. These companies all agreed to license their names when UA was the biggest monster in the room, and no one else was really doing the plugin emulation game to the degree that UA was. A lot has changed though. A lot of companies are releasing their own plugin emulations now to get in on the action. So UA may get boxed in on some of these native ports. The DSP version might be all you ever get, OR you might get a rebadged version like Pure Plate. All of that is to say, maybe try Pure Plate? It's not exactly the same thing, but, as I understand it, it's based on the same 140 code, and it's available on native now. Since the code already exists for DSP porting it over should not be a huge deal, but yeah their license agreements could be their biggest issues going native. Do you proceed by Licensing clones ala AVID / Bombfactory / Purple? Or do you follow many of the other plugin Emulations and run with names that imply the original ( hey you cut your expenses by not paying licensing fees). |
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Post by ragan on Oct 11, 2023 14:27:01 GMT -6
I’m kind of tempted by the cross grade offers. Mostly I just want the EMT-140, which I don’t think is offered natively yet. It isn't offered natively yet, and, given that they have released Pure Plate natively, which is to one degree or another based on the 140 code, it might be a long time before the 140 gets ported over to native. UA has been milking things with the DSP to native ports, in a painfully slow way. They know that the 140 is popular. If they were gonna do it anytime soon, they already would have done it instead of porting Pure Plate to native, in my opinion. That's why I'm saying it will be a while, or possibly never. There could be licensing issues too. I know UA ran into that with the Neve plugins as well as Roland, Boss, etc. There may also never be native ports of the SSL plugins either, for the same reasons. These companies all agreed to license their names when UA was the biggest monster in the room, and no one else was really doing the plugin emulation game to the degree that UA was. A lot has changed though. A lot of companies are releasing their own plugin emulations now to get in on the action. So UA may get boxed in on some of these native ports. The DSP version might be all you ever get, OR you might get a rebadged version like Pure Plate. All of that is to say, maybe try Pure Plate? It's not exactly the same thing, but, as I understand it, it's based on the same 140 code, and it's available on native now. Yeah with Pure Plate, Oxide, the free LA-2a, it’s just a stripped down version of stuff they already had. I’ll try Pure Plate. I’m also just kind of nostalgic about the 140 though |
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2023 14:36:06 GMT -6
It isn't offered natively yet, and, given that they have released Pure Plate natively, which is to one degree or another based on the 140 code, it might be a long time before the 140 gets ported over to native. UA has been milking things with the DSP to native ports, in a painfully slow way. They know that the 140 is popular. If they were gonna do it anytime soon, they already would have done it instead of porting Pure Plate to native, in my opinion. That's why I'm saying it will be a while, or possibly never. There could be licensing issues too. I know UA ran into that with the Neve plugins as well as Roland, Boss, etc. There may also never be native ports of the SSL plugins either, for the same reasons. These companies all agreed to license their names when UA was the biggest monster in the room, and no one else was really doing the plugin emulation game to the degree that UA was. A lot has changed though. A lot of companies are releasing their own plugin emulations now to get in on the action. So UA may get boxed in on some of these native ports. The DSP version might be all you ever get, OR you might get a rebadged version like Pure Plate. All of that is to say, maybe try Pure Plate? It's not exactly the same thing, but, as I understand it, it's based on the same 140 code, and it's available on native now. Yeah with Pure Plate, Oxide, the free LA-2a, it’s just a stripped down version of stuff they already had. I’ll try Pure Plate. I’m also just kind of nostalgic about the 140 though Yeah, I hear you. The 140 is what first got me onto the UA platform. That said, the new-ish Soundtoys Superplate is really cool, and has some really nice features like the variable delay ducking. |
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Post by notneeson on Oct 11, 2023 14:42:50 GMT -6
I’m kind of tempted by the cross grade offers. Mostly I just want the EMT-140, which I don’t think is offered natively yet. I was thinking the same thing, except I already have such good options for plate (and many other items in the bundle). Pretty good value though. |
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Post by ragan on Oct 11, 2023 14:49:50 GMT -6
Yeah I’ve got great options for plate as well.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 11, 2023 15:06:12 GMT -6
michael Interesting history re: sharc chips: a long standing vexation point with ua users, that it charges so much for its satellites etc, with very slow chips.
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Post by yewtreemagic on Oct 11, 2023 15:07:10 GMT -6
This runs natively you just install using ua connect. UA is still deep discounting the Ultimate bundle and pushing its subscription model. It needs an installer? Count me out. I already have a number of installers that I don't want. Just go back to single plugs and a license file. I hate the "gotta be online" authentication for 1/3rd of them. ILOK for 1/3rd and license files for 1/3rd. Life was so much simpler when I could keep a folder with a plug's installer and the license file and just reinstall that way. I fell at the first fence too, as the UAD installer insisted that it can't run under Windows 7, which is still working beutifully for me and I'm hanging onto it on this PC. So I'm not going to be able to try out this freebie  |
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Post by ragan on Oct 11, 2023 15:22:20 GMT -6
As far as this actual plug-in, I tried it out last night. I had the UAD LA-2a collection back in the day (from which this freebie is taken), but it’s been too long for me to consider my memory of it valid. The freebie sounds good. I liked it on bass better than Black Rooster (my native go-to), but I like the Black Rooster better on acoustic guitars. I think the UAD sounds more like my Stam SA-23A+. They’re both a bit more blatantly harmonic than the Black Rooster, which sometimes helps the source, sometimes hurts.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 11, 2023 15:35:04 GMT -6
Free? Still overpriced. [That's a joke by the way] Ha. |
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 11, 2023 15:39:58 GMT -6
What I really want to know is does this even come close to touching my AudioScape hardware? Last time I checked the UA hardware didn't - can their plug beat their hardware?
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 11, 2023 15:43:01 GMT -6
What I really want to know is does this even come close to touching my AudioScape hardware? Last time I checke4d the UA hardware didn't - can their plug beat their hardware?
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Post by ab101 on Oct 11, 2023 17:36:44 GMT -6
I wonder if UAD has jumped the sharc?  Seriously, it seems to defy the capitalistic system that we are stuck with such old technology on the UAD cards. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2023 18:07:59 GMT -6
I wonder if UAD has jumped the sharc? Seriously, it seems to defy the capitalistic system that we are stuck with such old technology on the UAD cards. They bought in bulk 😁 |
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It took a lot longer for customers to catch on to the implications of that little experiment, but the reality has finally sunk in.
