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Post by AgnosticGospel on Oct 6, 2023 17:20:12 GMT -6
I've spent a couple of weeks now scouring the internet for details about the consoles that Rein Narma built for Les Paul and Rudy Van Gelder. I'm very curious about the EQs on these units, which frequencies were selectable, etc. There are no clear pictures of these consoles online where you can see any fine detail.
I know the Van Gelder desk is gone. Is Les Paul's desk in a museum somewhere?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 6, 2023 17:58:40 GMT -6
I've spent a couple of weeks now scouring the internet for details about the consoles that Rein Narma built for Les Paul and Rudy Van Gelder. I'm very curious about the EQs on these units, which frequencies were selectable, etc. There are no clear pictures of these consoles online where you can see any fine detail. I know the Van Gelder desk is gone. Is Les Paul's desk in a museum somewhere? The only Les Console I know of was the API that was auctioned off a couple of years ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 18:03:16 GMT -6
The Les API is at the API HQ, i guess they won the auction.. Interested to read about the Rein Narma though.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 6, 2023 19:29:58 GMT -6
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Oct 6, 2023 19:33:12 GMT -6
Believe me, I've emailed him. 🤣 |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Oct 6, 2023 22:01:12 GMT -6
Do they happen to be the black faced Langevin units with the 2 sliders?
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Post by kelk on Oct 7, 2023 4:08:03 GMT -6
That console is a thing of beauty but looking at that picture of Les makes me realize I have been rolling up my pants legs way too short for my entire life.
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Oct 7, 2023 8:21:14 GMT -6
Do they happen to be the black faced Langevin units with the 2 sliders? I don't know! Which units are you talking about? Do you see Langevins in some of those pictures? |
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Post by drumsound on Oct 7, 2023 10:22:01 GMT -6
Believe me, I've emailed him. 🤣 Jay McKnight announced recently that his company, MRL, is closing at the end of this year. He's probably getting a lot of emails right now... |
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Post by christopher on Oct 7, 2023 10:32:01 GMT -6
Sadly Jay passed away last year. RIP
91 years old!
yeah… Hopefully someone will carry the torch.
Who’s gonna have that awesome voice though?
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Post by EmRR on Oct 7, 2023 12:11:38 GMT -6
This console would have replace the RCA BC-2B he had, which maxed out at 6 preamps and just mono output.
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Oct 7, 2023 14:58:43 GMT -6
Ok, so it sounds like my email isn't getting answered then. I find it hard to believe that these two world-famous mixing desks have so little information about them available on such a big world wide web. Also weird that nobody knows what their current locations are!
This is knowable info. We just have to figure out who knows it.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Oct 7, 2023 17:46:01 GMT -6
Do they happen to be the black faced Langevin units with the 2 sliders? I don't know! Which units are you talking about? Do you see Langevins in some of those pictures? My mistake I spoke before seeing the pictures. I was talking about the Langevin 251a eq’s. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 7, 2023 21:00:50 GMT -6
I would be surprised if that console even had equalizers. We are talking mid-'50s.
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Oct 7, 2023 21:47:24 GMT -6
I would be surprised if that console even had equalizers. We are talking mid-'50s. Surprise! According to several articles (one hyperlinked above) and a couple of videos I've watched, the consoles did include an EQ section. It would be incredibly instructive to know what frequencies were available. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 8, 2023 6:16:03 GMT -6
There wouldn't have been room for much more than a simple passive bass and treble.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 8, 2023 7:22:42 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe that these two world-famous mixing desks have so little information about them available on such a big world wide web. Also weird that nobody knows what their current locations are! This is knowable info. We just have to figure out who knows it. Keep in mind they are world famous now, but certainly not then or even 20 years ago. I’ve been studying this stuff for several decades and this one is barely on my radar. No one really cared, tech moved on, and the old was sent to landfill. Consoles didn’t stay in service very many years before “newer/better” came along and they were replaced. No one coveted an old console; that was a service nightmare for a busy room. Coveted old consoles are a relatively new concept. Even the famous 30th street console turns out to be several consoles, of which almost nothing is known. Business cares nothing for history; I agree it seems like someone must know, but after decades of searching for info, actually most is indeed lost to history. Occasionally you get an article in an old mag, but there’s rarely any technical detail. |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Oct 8, 2023 9:19:42 GMT -6
Les Paul Console
Is the picture here of any value in determining if there was EQ:
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 8, 2023 19:06:37 GMT -6
Jay wrote that he was invited to see it because he had designed the equalizer so it had one which.was pretty radical for the mid 1950s. I understand that recorder was the very first multichannel recorder.
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Post by drumsound on Oct 8, 2023 20:22:08 GMT -6
Sadly Jay passed away last year. RIP 91 years old! yeah… Hopefully someone will carry the torch. Who’s gonna have that awesome voice though? I didn't realize Jay passed. Luckily there are thousands of recordings of his voice. |
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Oct 9, 2023 9:34:54 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe that these two world-famous mixing desks have so little information about them available on such a big world wide web. Also weird that nobody knows what their current locations are! This is knowable info. We just have to figure out who knows it. Keep in mind they are world famous now, but certainly not then or even 20 years ago. I’ve been studying this stuff for several decades and this one is barely on my radar. No one really cared, tech moved on, and the old was sent to landfill. Consoles didn’t stay in service very many years before “newer/better” came along and they were replaced. No one coveted an old console; that was a service nightmare for a busy room. Coveted old consoles are a relatively new concept. Even the famous 30th street console turns out to be several consoles, of which almost nothing is known. Business cares nothing for history; I agree it seems like someone must know, but after decades of searching for info, actually most is indeed lost to history. Occasionally you get an article in an old mag, but there’s rarely any technical detail. I understand what you are saying, but in the case of Les Paul's console, it didn't go to a landfill. He kept it and you can see it in videos where he gives reporters tours of his studio in the 80s and 90s. He actually DID know that we were dealing with a historical piece of gear. So that point is moot. I doubt very much that it got thrown away after his death. www.les-paul.com/home-studios/Scroll down to videos, and watch "The Lathe, the Octopus and the Monster." There is a close up of ONE SINGLE POT, and because the cameraman was being fancy with a cross-focus, it's not completely in focus at any time. This desk should be very easy to find, because it *should* be in the mother-truckin Smithsonian. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2023 9:48:28 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe that these two world-famous mixing desks have so little information about them available on such a big world wide web. Also weird that nobody knows what their current locations are! This is knowable info. We just have to figure out who knows it. Keep in mind they are world famous now, but certainly not then or even 20 years ago. I’ve been studying this stuff for several decades and this one is barely on my radar. No one really cared, tech moved on, and the old was sent to landfill. Consoles didn’t stay in service very many years before “newer/better” came along and they were replaced. No one coveted an old console; that was a service nightmare for a busy room. Coveted old consoles are a relatively new concept. Even the famous 30th street console turns out to be several consoles, of which almost nothing is known. Business cares nothing for history; I agree it seems like someone must know, but after decades of searching for info, actually most is indeed lost to history. Occasionally you get an article in an old mag, but there’s rarely any technical detail. The SSL Super Analogue equipment from 20 years ago sure sounded great but now is a service nightmare. The current SSL branded products aren’t made in the UK by SSL; they’re Chinese OEM prosumer-fi circuits with real capacitors and SSL’s own plugs are ports from the ancient c200 digital board. People cannot accept that what’s gone is gone and doesn’t exist anymore: Ancient Rome, the Beatles, old SSL. The records are real. Their makers are inexistent. |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 9, 2023 10:49:11 GMT -6
Keep in mind they are world famous now, but certainly not then or even 20 years ago. I’ve been studying this stuff for several decades and this one is barely on my radar. No one really cared, tech moved on, and the old was sent to landfill. Consoles didn’t stay in service very many years before “newer/better” came along and they were replaced. No one coveted an old console; that was a service nightmare for a busy room. Coveted old consoles are a relatively new concept. Even the famous 30th street console turns out to be several consoles, of which almost nothing is known. Business cares nothing for history; I agree it seems like someone must know, but after decades of searching for info, actually most is indeed lost to history. Occasionally you get an article in an old mag, but there’s rarely any technical detail. I understand what you are saying, but in the case of Les Paul's console, it didn't go to a landfill. He kept it and you can see it in videos where he gives reporters tours of his studio in the 80s and 90s. He actually DID know that we were dealing with a historical piece of gear. So that point is moot. I doubt very much that it got thrown away after his death. www.les-paul.com/home-studios/Scroll down to videos, and watch "The Lathe, the Octopus and the Monster." There is a close up of ONE SINGLE POT, and because the cameraman was being fancy with a cross-focus, it's not completely in focus at any time. This desk should be very easy to find, because it *should* be in the mother-truckin Smithsonian. Then it’s likely in the hands of someone paranoid and gatekeeping - typical antique audio hoarder mentality. Also - museums get this stuff, don’t really care about it or don’t have a clear display plan, and it gets sold off to cover operating expenses. Very long history of people trying to put back together historically significant installs that WERE donated, then dismembered and scattered. There’s nothing like a suitcase full of cash to lighten museum storage. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Oct 9, 2023 12:54:08 GMT -6
I understand what you are saying, but in the case of Les Paul's console, it didn't go to a landfill. He kept it and you can see it in videos where he gives reporters tours of his studio in the 80s and 90s. He actually DID know that we were dealing with a historical piece of gear. So that point is moot. I doubt very much that it got thrown away after his death. www.les-paul.com/home-studios/Scroll down to videos, and watch "The Lathe, the Octopus and the Monster." There is a close up of ONE SINGLE POT, and because the cameraman was being fancy with a cross-focus, it's not completely in focus at any time. This desk should be very easy to find, because it *should* be in the mother-truckin Smithsonian. Then it’s likely in the hands of someone paranoid and gatekeeping - typical antique audio hoarder mentality. Also - museums get this stuff, don’t really care about it or don’t have a clear display plan, and it gets sold off to cover operating expenses. Very long history of people trying to put back together historically significant installs that WERE donated, then dismembered and scattered. There’s nothing like a suitcase full of cash to lighten museum storage. Yeah or it just sits in a storage area because there is maybe one guy on staff who understands what it is. Anyone ever seen pictures of all the stuff a major museum has but doesn’t display. |
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Post by nnajar on Oct 12, 2023 19:19:15 GMT -6
Why not call gene Paul and ask him if he knows anything? He runs a mastering business from his analog home studio.
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