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Post by hadaja on Sept 21, 2023 14:24:47 GMT -6
I am about to embark on another one of my rabbit holes that will lead me off the golden audio path for a few years and venture into the dark arts of the vintage ribbon world.
i have been conversing with a few of the older audio greats over the years and the rca bk11 has popped up a few times in conversation.
it was built to replace the 44bx and venture into the new audio world of condenser mics and such that were growing fast in popularity . Its was towards the end of the RCA ribbon era as ribbon mics were losing out to other newer mics.
so getting back to the point at hand.
i have used and at one time owned a 44bx but i have never used the bk11.
Who out there has a bk11 ?
what is it like against the 44bx?
does it have the simialr big bottom end and sweet high mids of the 44bx.?
and tell me more about your bk11 ?
Thanks for your time.
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Post by winetree on Sept 21, 2023 14:28:57 GMT -6
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Post by hadaja on Sept 21, 2023 15:30:55 GMT -6
Yep usually one of the first steps you take in doing some research on something like mics. Always a great place of info. Thanks for thinking of it, but more looking towards real life users feedback. |
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Post by markfouxman on Sept 21, 2023 17:47:05 GMT -6
I serviced both numerous times. Even though I did not have chance to compare them directly from memory they are quite different. The BK11 has a bit thicker and boomy bottom end and has more high end roll off... more in the RCA74 direction. The RCA 44 has quite a bit shorter front to back path and is more natural and balanced. The build quality is also quite different--I regard the 44 much superior and advanced vs. mass produced BK11. The only quite similar response to 44 I can think of is a French Melodium 42B, which has very similar construction and front to back path. I have one on my bench right now, so could post a pic, if interested.
Best, M
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Post by hadaja on Sept 21, 2023 18:00:15 GMT -6
Mark thanks for repsonding.
Great info, awesome feedback.
I did actually at one point have a Melodium 42b after service put up against the 44bx. The differences were quite noticeable.
THe Melodium has no sweetness the 44bx exhibited. The low end was more controlled on the Melodium (which was not a bad thing). I came away a little disappointed by the Melodium experience as I too had heard that it was close to the 44bx.
I did try a couple of RCA74's at one time. That was even further from the 44bx experience as in not remotely in the same ball park.
I have been informed of a frankenstein mod that I wish to try and see how that compares but thats going to be at least a 12 x month jourbney to source all the parts.
Thanks for your advice, I shall be reaching out to you later in the journey.
Cheers
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Post by markfouxman on Sept 21, 2023 18:19:44 GMT -6
The weak point of the Melodium is its transformer. Ridiculously large and inefficient it eats up at least 80% of that motor beauty and sonics. Also, very often it came with 50 Ohm output and had an optional humongous (and even more ridiculous) inline thingie to step up to 300 Ohm. Once we replace those with our High End amorphous core toroidal transformers it was totally different mic.
The RCA 44 transformer is also not that great, but better. Somehow in general, at that time they did not really care to put high quality transformers into ribbon microphones... the worst I saw were in EV V1 and V2--crudely made, with ridiculous lamination... just badly executed...
Best, M
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Post by hadaja on Sept 21, 2023 19:34:35 GMT -6
Yep i have had some of those EV ribbon mics . They are pretty bad in comparison to other options out there.
I think a need an education on the transformers function and work in conjunction the ribbon mic .
Like i had a big vintage BBC ribbon mic recently from the 1940’s and it had the transformer replaced with a new cinemag and the how mic just sounded so clean and boring. Like it lost its soul.
What part of the sound does the transformer have in a ribbon mic?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 21, 2023 20:56:23 GMT -6
A very strange view, every prop shop has a BK11, condition doesn’t matter to them just the look. It inflates the price for mint and doggy due due. While 44’s have had more value to recording guys, BK11’s will dominate shoots.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 22, 2023 2:07:05 GMT -6
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Post by hadaja on Sept 22, 2023 3:08:52 GMT -6
Thats awesome. I shall look at this in the morning. so you had a 44a and a 44bx? i was informed by one of the major usa ribbon repairers that the 44a when servced well has the same sound as a 44bx except in the low end. Did you find that the case with yours? Thanks |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 22, 2023 8:00:52 GMT -6
My 44-BX is like a fatter Samar MF-65, much bigger proximity effect, 'practical' treble pretty similar. My BK-11A is more mid-focused by a good bit, actually sounds 'older' than the 44 which seems surprisingly modern. My BK-11 has a recent ENAK ribbon, the 44-BX is likely original.
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Post by Ward on Sept 22, 2023 8:38:25 GMT -6
My 44, and I'm sure most of them, sound surreal.
If you listen to American orchestral and big band recordings of the 1940s, the 44s must be considered to be a huge part of that sound capture and they are some of the most beautiful recordings ever made.
Were any BX11As every used in those?
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Post by EmRR on Sept 22, 2023 9:32:21 GMT -6
My 44, and I'm sure most of them, sound surreal. If you listen to American orchestral and big band recordings of the 1940s, the 44s must be considered to be a huge part of that sound capture and they are some of the most beautiful recordings ever made. Were any BX11As every used in those? BK-11's show up around '61 if I recall |
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Post by mcirish on Sept 22, 2023 15:54:20 GMT -6
A very strange view, every prop shop has a BK11, condition doesn’t matter to them just the look. It inflates the price for mint and doggy due due. While 44’s have had more value to recording guys, BK11’s will dominate shoots. I found that to be true. A few weeks ago I was part of a video shoot at a university in Kentucky and sure enough, high up on a boom was a BK11 being used as a prop. I believe is was broken and they had no idea what to do about getting it re-ribboned. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 26, 2023 21:34:35 GMT -6
This was a nice listen. Thanks Dan! |
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Post by Ward on Sept 27, 2023 5:18:21 GMT -6
Gratitude, Dan! That was a great listen. The BX11 faired well here. |
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Post by chessparov on Sept 27, 2023 10:30:36 GMT -6
FWIW the 77 was/is Bones Howe's fave vocal mic of all time.
Mamas Pappas/5th Dimension etc...
The iconic Sam Cooke/"smoke" Studio picture is a RCA Time Capsule.
Haven't spent time on one yet.
Another cool Vintage-y Ribbon,
is the Sontronics Sigma 2.
Chris
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Post by wiz on Sept 27, 2023 14:19:29 GMT -6
I am about to embark on another one of my rabbit holes that will lead me off the golden audio path for a few years and venture into the dark arts of the vintage ribbon world. i have been conversing with a few of the older audio greats over the years and the rca bk11 has popped up a few times in conversation. it was built to replace the 44bx and venture into the new audio world of condenser mics and such that were growing fast in popularity . Its was towards the end of the RCA ribbon era as ribbon mics were losing out to other newer mics. so getting back to the point at hand. i have used and at one time owned a 44bx but i have never used the bk11. Who out there has a bk11 ? what is it like against the 44bx? does it have the simialr big bottom end and sweet high mids of the 44bx.? and tell me more about your bk11 ? Thanks for your time. There is pair for sale out of Perth on Facebook market place. cheers Wiz |
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Post by hadaja on Sept 27, 2023 22:51:56 GMT -6
I saw those.
Still paying off the RCA 44bx i just purchased this week.
I really liked .dan’s audio clips of the BK11.
Id be happy to buy one of those bk11, Wiz did you want to buy the other one?
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Post by wiz on Sept 27, 2023 23:45:54 GMT -6
If they will take bottle tops 8)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 28, 2023 11:47:21 GMT -6
If they will take bottle tops 8) Or an Altec Coke bottle? Unfortunately they probably want a nice sized vial of Coke. |
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