ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 31, 2023 11:50:09 GMT -6
The inspiration for this is the Paul vs Tim Campbell thread, I’m not going to touch pricing this is about what I do to protect myself as a buyer. Most of what I buy is used but 90% applies to new as well. The first thing is ask questions, while any new gear pricing enquiry starts with a phone call I will always ask for an email stating price and shipping, this is where a new email folder begins. All communication will be documented and saved so there is no he said / she said arguments it’s all on paper and I have it organized. If there is a question about the legitimacy one trick is to ask a leading question where I am acting like I’m giving the seller the answer I want, example let’s say I’m looking at a 1272 clone, “ is this one with the rare transformerless output stage, I’m really not that interested if it has transformers.” A scammer is going to start drooling over this. I always want a good discription and to know any issues ahead of time, I also will ask for additional pictures and while I will never ask for a picture of a serial number directly I’ll do my damnedest to get a picture that includes the serial number. The purchase, always PayPal if I can, the buyer protection is worth the expenses, funded via Amex, never buy gear over $100 bucks without it. Amex is far more buyer friendly than the other credit cards, or your bank. Track it, track it track it, now here is an important thing that is often not understood, if there are any shipping issues unless as a buyer I have used my own account with the shipper, I really don’t have any standing with the shipper. The seller is the one who contracted the shipper and in most cases needs to be the one who contracts the shipper, damage claims can be filed but the buyer but if the shipper starts the process it is usually much easier. When it arrives, have your phone camera out. If the box shows any possible signs of damage get a picture if you can before you move it, pictures and or video while unpacking starting before you break any seals are your friend at worst you can trash them in a week. With the demise of the packing peanut packing has deteriorated, I love it when I get something double or triple boxed where there isn’t anything keeping the box from moving inside the box, this is a sign I’m taking a bunch of photos. The other big danger sign packing with flat sheets of paper, sure the item may not move but unless it’s balled up it isn’t providing any coushion. Inspection and testing, visual inspection is important, I ll even open up most items to both confirm any options and any obvious defects, again take pictures. If there are any issues during testing take a video!!!
Any issues at all immediately contact the seller, don’t be confrontational, most are going to blame issues on the shipper, I don’t care how sure you are it wasn’t the shipper, let the “ professionals “ make that determination. If it was purchased through a third party service (eBay, Reverb) I don’t care how much the seller says to not contact them before you try to resolve the issue, contact them immediately. You may lose some buyer protections if you don’t and if the seller accuses you of damaging an item a claim filed within 48 hours of delivery is going to lean more towards the buyer. If you don’t get communication from anyone involved contact your card Company! Yeah it will probably take 30 days, but if you have all the above documentation there is a 99.9% chance Amex is going to credit you.
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Post by Ward on Aug 31, 2023 17:12:49 GMT -6
Excellent read, lots to mull over and think about.
Thanks brother!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Sept 4, 2023 11:31:28 GMT -6
Chris Stone told me that they ONLY bought second-hand gear for Record Plant and leased the tape machines and consoles.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 4, 2023 11:56:10 GMT -6
His Uncle Oliver told me he loves the smell... Of Oxide in the morning! (With enough belts of course) We happened to be in a plush Studio at the time. FWIW using "C/O Genovese Family" as part of my Return Address has worked wonders. Chris P.S. More details next time Eric. Please!
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Post by andersmv on Sept 4, 2023 12:00:10 GMT -6
Wait, you guys don't have a normal job paying over $250k a year? I just buy stuff whenever I want it and don't worry about it, that's definitely the way to do it. Follow me on YouTube and donate to my patreon for more life tips, be well.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 4, 2023 13:22:45 GMT -6
Wait, you guys don't have a normal job paying over $250k a year? I just buy stuff whenever I want it and don't worry about it, that's definitely the way to do it. Follow me on YouTube and donate to my patreon for more life tips, be well. Basic philosophy of gear consumption/ desires; he who makes $50K desires $500k worth of gear, he who makes $250K desires $2.5 million.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 4, 2023 13:26:59 GMT -6
Is it always 5X?
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Post by andersmv on Sept 4, 2023 15:12:06 GMT -6
What a silly question. That's what credit cards are for.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 4, 2023 15:16:16 GMT -6
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Post by chessparov on Sept 4, 2023 15:54:06 GMT -6
Wow 50X!! (5X10) Good thing I'm a part time Math Tudor. Englush too. Chris
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 4, 2023 16:05:27 GMT -6
I utterly detest hassle!
I've bought 90% of my studio gear new and the other 10% second hand from friends or dealers.
The only time I've bought something over $500 in a second hand private sale was last week when I bought a minty fresh Audiosape Opto Comp on eBay and it came boxed in mint condition basically unused for 2/3 rd's the new price.
Literally the only time I've ever bought something significant from a private sale.
Personally, I'd rather pay a premium for new gear or second hand from a trusted dealer with a backup warranty and just buy less of it.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 4, 2023 17:54:47 GMT -6
I utterly detest hassle! I've bought 90% of my studio gear new and the other 10% second hand from friends or dealers. The only time I've bought something over $500 in a second hand private sale was last week when I bought a minty fresh Audiosape Opto Comp on eBay and it came boxed in mint condition basically unused for 2/3 rd's the new price. Literally the only time I've ever bought something significant from a private sale. Personally, I'd rather pay a premium for new gear or second hand from a trusted dealer with a backup warranty and just buy less of it. Understood, but buying new is not necessarily an escape from hassle, look at what lead to this thread the whole Flea tube incident. That was a new purchase from a respected dealer and a highly regarded manufacturer. In fact I have had more issues with packing of new products recently compared to second hand. Sadly the jokes about a random air pillow floating around the box are to real. As a seller of new gear documentation was my best friend, if you miss read something it was on you the buyer, I didn’t have to “ make it right “, I probably would if it was within my power because it makes buisness sense. I just had legal cover.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 4, 2023 17:58:36 GMT -6
Chris Stone told me that they ONLY bought second-hand gear for Record Plant and leased the tape machines and consoles. I’m not surprised Bob, but thinking back to that time frame you inadvertently brought up a completely different animal of gear seller, gear brokers. Dealing with brokers deserves its own lengthy post and probably some serious drinking to remain calm after remembering a couple of experiences.
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Post by Ward on Sept 4, 2023 18:31:47 GMT -6
Chris Stone told me that they ONLY bought second-hand gear for Record Plant and leased the tape machines and consoles. Proving beyond the shadow of doubt, that being an astute businessman and being in the music industry are not mutually exclusive!
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Post by Ward on Sept 4, 2023 18:34:25 GMT -6
Wait, you guys don't have a normal job paying over $250k a year? I just buy stuff whenever I want it and don't worry about it, that's definitely the way to do it. Follow me on YouTube and donate to my patreon for more life tips, be well. You know the problem with being in a 250-750K a year job? (and I've been there) Someone owns you at every moment. Someone owns everything you do, and the schools you choose for your kids and if your wife "needs" a new plastic surgeon etc F that world . . . I had enough of it, quite a few years ago.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 4, 2023 19:46:43 GMT -6
Wait, you guys don't have a normal job paying over $250k a year? I just buy stuff whenever I want it and don't worry about it, that's definitely the way to do it. Follow me on YouTube and donate to my patreon for more life tips, be well. You know the problem with being in a 250-750K a year job? (and I've been there) Someone owns you at every moment. Someone owns everything you do, and the schools you choose for your kids and if your wife "needs" a new plastic surgeon etc F that world . . . I had enough of it, quite a few years ago. What you didn’t fit the corporate culture? I’m shocked. I tell you completely shocked.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 4, 2023 19:49:56 GMT -6
But we're not Michelle Shocked.
I remember when I was in a 401K job. That's when I really collected lots of CD's. Chris
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 5, 2023 0:50:38 GMT -6
I utterly detest hassle! I've bought 90% of my studio gear new and the other 10% second hand from friends or dealers. The only time I've bought something over $500 in a second hand private sale was last week when I bought a minty fresh Audiosape Opto Comp on eBay and it came boxed in mint condition basically unused for 2/3 rd's the new price. Literally the only time I've ever bought something significant from a private sale. Personally, I'd rather pay a premium for new gear or second hand from a trusted dealer with a backup warranty and just buy less of it. Understood, but buying new is not necessarily an escape from hassle, look at what lead to this thread the whole Flea tube incident. That was a new purchase from a respected dealer and a highly regarded manufacturer. In fact I have had more issues with packing of new products recently compared to second hand. Sadly the jokes about a random air pillow floating around the box are to real. As a seller of new gear documentation was my best friend, if you miss read something it was on you the buyer, I didn’t have to “ make it right “, I probably would if it was within my power because it makes buisness sense. I just had legal cover. Fingers crossed, I’ve never had any hassle with brand new gear. I did have a damaged valve in my Retro STA Level that I bought second hand from a very well respected pro dealer and they sent a new one down to me in a taxi same day - actually about 2 hours after I phoned to report the issue. For me the key is to pick the right pro dealer, some really do have first class service and pride themselves on it.
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Post by andersmv on Sept 5, 2023 21:04:26 GMT -6
Wait, you guys don't have a normal job paying over $250k a year? I just buy stuff whenever I want it and don't worry about it, that's definitely the way to do it. Follow me on YouTube and donate to my patreon for more life tips, be well. You know the problem with being in a 250-750K a year job? (and I've been there) Someone owns you at every moment. Someone owns everything you do, and the schools you choose for your kids and if your wife "needs" a new plastic surgeon etc F that world . . . I had enough of it, quite a few years ago. I wouldn't mind being owned for a "little" while
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Post by chessparov on Sept 5, 2023 23:40:16 GMT -6
Get a cat!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2023 20:37:40 GMT -6
Chapter 2, Brokers and Consignment. the process of buying gear on consignment or via a broker is very different than via a dealer because in both cases the person you are dealing with doesn’t have ownership of the Gear. In the world of recording brokers have pretty much faded into the sunset, but up until the late 90s brokers dominated the high end used gear business. Oddysey, VK, Merenary, Dan Alexander and Summit all started as brokers. I don’t know anyone who has much experience with brokers who will not have horror stories, I swore them off numerous times, but really most issues were not really with the broker. Most of the time a broker doesn’t have custody of the gear, the owner still has it, this means any questions about availability, condition, features, shipping, price of all are answered second hand and mean the broker has to chase down the owner. There is nothing like finding out after everything is set that you need a crane to get that 2inch machine. Brokers and Consignment prices are often above market because the broker asks the actual owner “ how much do you want for it?” Then they add a percentage, never telling the owner they are nuts because market price is what the seller expects to clear not what he expects plus the commission. Another big issue with brokers is while most brokerage agreements have an expiration date and an exclusivity clause neither of these were ever enforced, so you may see listings from 10 years ago of the same console on different rockers listings. The guy who owned those ATCs 10 years probably never told all the brokers he listed them with that he hasn’t owned the for 8 years and is in no hurry to tell the broker. the other fun issue is if you enquirer about those 3 RADARS you see listed on different sites you could and probably are suddenly competing with your self from 3 different brokers, worse I know of a broker who’s list is full of duplicate listing because they never removed old listings and renewals are listed as new listings. In the US brokers are now pretty much relegated to broadcast and SR, Europe still has a few and while I’m trying not endorse anyone in this thread I have to say over the years my dealings with Don Larking across the pond have all been painless. One of my favorite places to buy gear in my youth was High Tech consignments in Minneapolis, the down side was if you wanted to negotiate it usually meant the sales guy playing phone tag with the bears owner but you could physically inspect the gear. That’s the big difference with consignment the dealer doesn’t own it but has physical custody of the gear. High Tech is Now the Used gear chain Music Go Round, and it is far, far removed from what it once was.
With both documentation is once again key, having a digital record is your best friend. With a broker all issues involving transport need to be agreed upon and understood by all involved parties: decommissioning, packing creating, removal, shipping and delivery all need to be spelled out in detail, truck access at both ends has probably been the second biggest hang ups besides condition.
stay tuned our next chapters will deal with non eBay auctions and church gear.
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Post by stratboy on Sept 10, 2023 6:41:44 GMT -6
Eric, thank you for all of this hard earned wisdom.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 10, 2023 9:48:02 GMT -6
I utterly detest hassle! I've bought 90% of my studio gear new and the other 10% second hand from friends or dealers. The only time I've bought something over $500 in a second hand private sale was last week when I bought a minty fresh Audiosape Opto Comp on eBay and it came boxed in mint condition basically unused for 2/3 rd's the new price. Literally the only time I've ever bought something significant from a private sale. Personally, I'd rather pay a premium for new gear or second hand from a trusted dealer with a backup warranty and just buy less of it. Glad you have the funds for that...
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 10, 2023 23:19:16 GMT -6
I utterly detest hassle! I've bought 90% of my studio gear new and the other 10% second hand from friends or dealers. The only time I've bought something over $500 in a second hand private sale was last week when I bought a minty fresh Audiosape Opto Comp on eBay and it came boxed in mint condition basically unused for 2/3 rd's the new price. Literally the only time I've ever bought something significant from a private sale. Personally, I'd rather pay a premium for new gear or second hand from a trusted dealer with a backup warranty and just buy less of it. Glad you have the funds for that... I said “I’d rather buy less” So I don’t have more funds, just less gear.
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