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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 27, 2023 13:16:35 GMT -6
Got some questions about the old Altec 436 series. I own the 436A, which I use on almost every bass guitar track I record or mix. I use it on guitar tracks I want to fatten up as well. It's a box I find that it sounds better and better the more you drive it.
That said, I always enjoy having a plugin that can reasonably replicate my favorite hardware pieces, and so I am demoing the BRA OmniTec 436C. I'm finding the box tone to be decent on the plugin, but can't nail the compression behavior my hardware, regardless of the attack and release settings (the 436A doesn't have attack or release controls). I was wondering if the attack and release times on the 436C were significantly different the the 436A?
I've attached a pic of bass smashed with the plugin (top) and my hardware (bottom). Notice the plugin doesn't catch the the attack of the notes the same way as the hardware. Is this a case of the plugin sidechain, not being properly coded, or is this just the difference in an A and C?
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Post by EmRR on Aug 27, 2023 13:32:09 GMT -6
The A doesn't have an input gain control, so it's more likely in overload more often. No release control or threshold/ratio either, which only the C has.
Many tube comps rely on actual signal overload for some of the limiting aspect, it's an assumption that can be made in the space between threshold and end of headroom. That's likely the difference. A plug made with conservative constraints won't capture it.
You should really drop the EMI RS124 mods in and compare. I find it much more useful, still great on bass. Ignoring the release switch and balancing bits and output attenuator, the timing cap and plate to plate feedback (2 resistors 1 cap) are the majority of the change. Super easy to compare.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 27, 2023 13:50:18 GMT -6
The A doesn't have an input gain control, so it's more likely in overload more often. No release control or threshold/ratio either, which only the C has. Many tube comps rely on actual signal overload for some of the limiting aspect, it's an assumption that can be made in the space between threshold and end of headroom. That's likely the difference. A plug made with conservative constraints won't capture it. You should really drop the EMI RS124 mods in and compare. I find it much more useful, still great on bass. Ignoring the release switch and balancing bits and output attenuator, the timing cap and plate to plate feedback (2 resistors 1 cap) are the majority of the change. Super easy to compare. I tried pushing the plugin with some clean gain before it to achieve the same overload I was getting on the hardware, but just can't make it do the same thing.
I figured you'd suggest the RS124 mods. I still haven't replaced the selenium rectifier in mine, I'm sorta terrified of screwing something up. Know anybody that would do all that for a reasonable price?
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Post by smashlord on Aug 27, 2023 16:02:46 GMT -6
So I've used 436Cs a bunch.... more of a distortion box than a compressor to me. In comparison to the A, the release is adjustable, albeit with a flat head screwdriver.
I've never used it with an A to compare, but I can tell you the studio that I was at that had 2 of them, they sat pretty much usused. None of us really loved them for much other than maybe blowing up a bass.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 29, 2023 8:47:47 GMT -6
I figured you'd suggest the RS124 mods. I still haven't replaced the selenium rectifier in mine, I'm sorta terrified of screwing something up. Know anybody that would do all that for a reasonable price? It’s not hard, but it takes a little planning with added terminal strips to replace that and the can cap internally with something more serviceable. I’m way too buried to add any more tech work to my own list currently. http://instagram.com/p/CaVCqdbFoTh |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 29, 2023 8:47:50 GMT -6
The b and c sound the same to me, the a is a bit more fuzzy and grimy. Could be due to age, though, and I’ve never actually done side by side comparisons. Just going from work experience.
I’ll tell you one thing, the upward trend in value for the b and the c compelled me to put my c for sale! The price on these things has really exploded in the last couple years.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 29, 2023 9:04:43 GMT -6
They should all sound the same at the same settings. And still cheaper than a repro RS124 and can be the real thing!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,103 
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Post by ericn on Aug 29, 2023 11:17:20 GMT -6
They should all sound the same at the same settings. And still cheaper than a repro RS124 and can be the real thing! Absolutely, but they are inching towards the price of new clones. Anytime they are mentioned in an article about the Beatles fan boys and girls buy’em up. |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 29, 2023 12:31:18 GMT -6
No idea why you’d buy a clone at even the same price. The one that appreciates the most is pretty clear.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,103
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Post by ericn on Aug 29, 2023 14:24:02 GMT -6
No idea why you’d by a clone at even the same price. The one that appreciates the most is pretty clear. In the case of classic Altec the confusion with the last 20 years of Altec. Mark IV really screwed the pooch on Altec with all the Cheap University and EV crap they threw the Altec name on. If you had half a brain you could tell the difference but every once in a while you or a couple of other guys will talk about old Altec and the prices on those Graphic EQs that go back to Tapco will be bid up to $100. They then think Altec sucks. Same with Telefunken and Fairchild. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 31, 2023 11:36:05 GMT -6
No idea why you’d buy a clone at even the same price. The one that appreciates the most is pretty clear. If it were that much better, perhaps? We have seen several boutique manufacturers/cloners go back to the original drawings and recreate the originals the way they were intended to, without shortcuts or dodgy parts, with higher quality control and better soldering skills and make units that BLOW the average originals away. Mics and comps, preamps and EQs. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 31, 2023 12:06:19 GMT -6
No idea why you’d buy a clone at even the same price. The one that appreciates the most is pretty clear. If it were that much better, perhaps? We have seen several boutique manufacturers/cloners go back to the original drawings and recreate the originals the way they were intended to, without shortcuts or dodgy parts, with higher quality control and better soldering skills and make units that BLOW the average originals away. Mics and comps, preamps and EQs. Agreed but you have to admit sometimes it was those old crappy parts that give it the tone you want. Of course the version everyone wants was modded to hell to make it useable and in this case the increased flexibility of the Chandler makes it a no brainer. If I could live without the flexibility a modded Altec would be the way to go, but Yeah I would probably take a ride trip north see if any of Wades old friends wanted to tag along and head to the giant Cornfield ( since I was born in raised in America’s dairy land or the giant cow patch I’m allowed to pick on IA). |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 31, 2023 20:32:34 GMT -6
Gotta say, I really don’t want to mod my Altec. I quite enjoy what it does. As I said originally, was curious if there was an ITB alternative, or a way to set the BRA to be closer to my hardware.
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