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Post by crillemannen on Aug 16, 2023 14:42:17 GMT -6
What I'd really like to hear now is 4 of the "same" tube... I do have 3 Philips/Valvo. But I think I'll save that comparison to a clone. Which is the best U67 clone on the market? |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 16, 2023 16:02:55 GMT -6
Incredible video. I am floored by the quality, congratulations. This is a hell of a job. The differences are huge between each tube. A good option would have been the Valvo E80F. This is the closest (with an Amperex) to the Telefunken EF806 and EF86. My favorite was the EF806 and the Mullard second. The rest did not sound good to my ears. Mine too. Otherwise Bugle Boys are beautiful. These are my top 3. |
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Ari
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Post by Ari on Aug 16, 2023 17:17:31 GMT -6
What I'd really like to hear now is 4 of the "same" tube... I do have 3 Philips/Valvo. But I think I'll save that comparison to a clone. Which is the best U67 clone on the market? Difficult question. All of them are fairly similar in design. A lot of the current ones out there are based on the same DIY projects, with the exception of some older ones like Ben's IIRC. Can anyone with more "face time" with clones give an informed opinion? |
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Post by Ward on Aug 16, 2023 18:18:10 GMT -6
I do have 3 Philips/Valvo. But I think I'll save that comparison to a clone. Which is the best U67 clone on the market? Difficult question. All of them are fairly similar in design. A lot of the current ones out there are based on the same DIY projects, with the exception of some older ones like Ben's IIRC. Can anyone with more "face time" with clones give an informed opinion? Well it won't be the Heiserman since they don't make one and won't as long as it's in production. I like how they make stuff AS CLOSE to the originals as possible and price accordingly. They don't cheap out. I have yet to hear a convincing clone . . . although Martin speaks highly of stam's and I trust Martin John Butler |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 16, 2023 19:21:46 GMT -6
Thank you sir.
Of course try five of the same vintage mics and every single one will sound a little different. It's the same with clones, if they're very close, they'll still be a little different. I judge 67's by their "ears". Of every mic I've ever tried, the 67 has the widest(biggest) pickup field without ever sounding like it isn't cardioid anymore. The closest any mic I've tried came to getting that aspect right was the Chandler REDD47, but don't forget, it's 5G's.
We're blessed that some boutique manufacturers can even get as close as they do, but most of the time the metalwork and the tube just can't be duplicated any more. If you need the very last drop of the holy grail sound, you better have a huge cash reserve and good ears. Not every vintage Neumann, AKG or Telefunken actually sound great. I've watched videos of collectors like Alan Sides discuss their mics. He had opportunities to buy vintage mics in Europe when they were selling for pennies on the dollar, and he bought truckloads. He then compared dozens of the same mic and picked only the outstanding ones as keepers.
Tubes are tricky beasts too. I went through a half dozen very expensive NOS vintage guitar amp tubes, and they just weren't great. I fact, the new JJ's smoked them. So it's all hit or miss.
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Post by drbill on Aug 16, 2023 21:35:47 GMT -6
I have yet to hear a convincing clone . . Agreed. I think most of the clones I've heard (including Neumann's - at least initially before they made some tweaks) - are cloning towards modded (brighter) U67's. Which so many of the remaining "originals" are. (Even though most claim to be 100% original.  ) My personal U67 experiences have been primarily at Capitol where the mic closet is has almost a museum like and meticulous bent towards keeping the mics like they originally were. They have/had 16 or 17 U67's all of which were remarkably similar. I really didn't like the U67RI in the VK and a couple other shootouts, but from what I've heard they (Neumann) have refined it - or maybe it was NOS tubes or Klaus's tweaks in some that I've heard that pushed it closer. Either way, it seems to be in the zone now. |
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Post by crillemannen on Aug 16, 2023 23:32:45 GMT -6
Incredible video. I am floored by the quality, congratulations. This is a hell of a job. The differences are huge between each tube. A good option would have been the Valvo E80F. This is the closest (with an Amperex) to the Telefunken EF806 and EF86. My favorite was the EF806 and the Mullard second. The rest did not sound good to my ears. Thanks! It's very interesting that we all perceive things differently haha! But that's great! After listening again I'm quite satisfied with the Philips/Valvo. I wouldn't mind testing some Stam gear cough cough* 🚀 |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 17, 2023 0:13:14 GMT -6
What I'd really like to hear now is 4 of the "same" tube... I do have 3 Philips/Valvo. But I think I'll save that comparison to a clone. Which is the best U67 clone on the market? Up until the MK67 there were very few. Ones I’ve liked are obviously Ben’s - does it take any old ef68? the AA is pretty good. Mojave 200/300’s are not bad and take eq well as they sound like an SM69 in some ways. Stam as usual. Wunder anyone? These mostly sound really good for a fraction of the price. Has anyone put 67 capsules in a Brauner VM1? U67RI’s with Tele 806s or Bugle Boys sound sensational. |
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Post by svart on Aug 17, 2023 9:43:51 GMT -6
Crazy how different they sound! I mean it makes it sound like a different mic. I wasn't expecting such a DRASTIC difference. My overall favorite is the Mullard, and it's not even close. It completely opens up the mic, especially on vocals, all the other sound choked, the Valvo a little less so. I really didn't like the RFT at all. Though to be honest, I would not pick this mic for your vocals. I like the Tele on acoustic for a laid back acoustic sound that can sit back in a mix. Didn't think it sounded very good on the vocal. I would imagine drums would sound pretty cool with this one! For this mic, I would want the Mullard and the Tele, the Mullard for most stuff, as it gives a nice hifi quality to the mic, that is often lacking in some old 67s and the Tele for some smooth, darker more compressed acoustics. Heh. Goes to show that opinions are really personal. My least favorite was the Mullard and my favorite was the RFT. The others were just in-between. I wouldn't have called them a "drastic" difference, just obvious. So many of these comparisons have so little difference that it's not obvious at all. In this case, tiny differences in mic placement would have overridden any of the tube tonality differences. I didn't think the vocals sounded particularly good here. I generally think 67's are too boomy in the bottom end on vocals as it is so maybe I'm just biased. |
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Post by ragan on Aug 17, 2023 10:18:20 GMT -6
Crazy how different they sound! I mean it makes it sound like a different mic. I wasn't expecting such a DRASTIC difference. My overall favorite is the Mullard, and it's not even close. It completely opens up the mic, especially on vocals, all the other sound choked, the Valvo a little less so. I really didn't like the RFT at all. Though to be honest, I would not pick this mic for your vocals. I like the Tele on acoustic for a laid back acoustic sound that can sit back in a mix. Didn't think it sounded very good on the vocal. I would imagine drums would sound pretty cool with this one! For this mic, I would want the Mullard and the Tele, the Mullard for most stuff, as it gives a nice hifi quality to the mic, that is often lacking in some old 67s and the Tele for some smooth, darker more compressed acoustics. Heh. Goes to show that opinions are really personal. My least favorite was the Mullard and my favorite was the RFT. The others were just in-between. I wouldn't have called them a "drastic" difference, just obvious. So many of these comparisons have so little difference that it's not obvious at all. In this case, tiny differences in mic placement would have overridden any of the tube tonality differences. I didn't think the vocals sounded particularly good here. I generally think 67's are too boomy in the bottom end on vocals as it is so maybe I'm just biased. Funny, I always hear 67s as sounding a bit high passed. Wildly subjective stuff we’re all involved with here* *I mean, obvs we can measure it, but that doesn’t always correlate with our listening impressions |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 17, 2023 10:20:31 GMT -6
Crazy how different they sound! I mean it makes it sound like a different mic. I wasn't expecting such a DRASTIC difference. My overall favorite is the Mullard, and it's not even close. It completely opens up the mic, especially on vocals, all the other sound choked, the Valvo a little less so. I really didn't like the RFT at all. Though to be honest, I would not pick this mic for your vocals. I like the Tele on acoustic for a laid back acoustic sound that can sit back in a mix. Didn't think it sounded very good on the vocal. I would imagine drums would sound pretty cool with this one! For this mic, I would want the Mullard and the Tele, the Mullard for most stuff, as it gives a nice hifi quality to the mic, that is often lacking in some old 67s and the Tele for some smooth, darker more compressed acoustics. Heh. Goes to show that opinions are really personal. My least favorite was the Mullard and my favorite was the RFT. The others were just in-between. I wouldn't have called them a "drastic" difference, just obvious. So many of these comparisons have so little difference that it's not obvious at all. In this case, tiny differences in mic placement would have overridden any of the tube tonality differences. I didn't think the vocals sounded particularly good here. I generally think 67's are too boomy in the bottom end on vocals as it is so maybe I'm just biased. Interesting! I was maybe a bit overly emphatic with the drastic but I really never believed That the differences would be so obvious. I was expecting subtle changes yes but not this! I guess I should've expected it because changing tubes in my Princeton can make it sound very different... I agree on the sound of 67s on vocals...not a huge fan, though they are my go to for overheads. |
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Post by svart on Aug 17, 2023 10:32:50 GMT -6
Heh. Goes to show that opinions are really personal. My least favorite was the Mullard and my favorite was the RFT. The others were just in-between. I wouldn't have called them a "drastic" difference, just obvious. So many of these comparisons have so little difference that it's not obvious at all. In this case, tiny differences in mic placement would have overridden any of the tube tonality differences. I didn't think the vocals sounded particularly good here. I generally think 67's are too boomy in the bottom end on vocals as it is so maybe I'm just biased. Interesting! I was maybe a bit overly emphatic with the drastic but I really never believed That the differences would be so obvious. I was expecting subtle changes yes but not this! I guess I should've expected it because changing tubes in my Princeton can make it sound very different... I agree on the sound of 67s on vocals...not a huge fan, though they are my go to for overheads. Tubes are one of those things.. In one device they might make a larger difference, but the same tubes in a different device might make very little difference. I just thought it was interesting that in this test we could actually hear the differences. I guess I'm used to a lot of the guitar tube shootouts where dudes are going "WOW so different!" and I couldn't hear a difference at all. |
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Post by damoongo on Aug 17, 2023 11:10:37 GMT -6
I generally think 67's are too boomy in the bottom end on vocals as it is so maybe I'm just biased. Funny, I always hear 67s as sounding a bit high passed. You could both be right. There's a jumper ("S2" on the circuit) that is a highpass. They ship with the highpass engaged. Most just leave it (or don't know). Some people snip that jumper. Others snip it and and add a micro switch. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 17, 2023 13:04:31 GMT -6
My name is Chris and...
I_love_67's along with their (269) Fraternal Twin. (Gasp!) 😀
P.S. A 67 versus KM86 "Motown Match" vocal smackdown would be way cool. 😎
Chris
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 17, 2023 13:14:53 GMT -6
I wouldn’t buy Tesla’s or RFT’s from dealers they charge the same as classic tubes. I just bought a ton of E80F for next to nothing and they are long life but I haven’t heard them yet.
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Post by christophert on Aug 17, 2023 15:12:56 GMT -6
Funny, I always hear 67s as sounding a bit high passed. You could both be right. There's a jumper ("S2" on the circuit) that is a highpass. They ship with the highpass engaged. Most just leave it (or don't know). Some people snip that jumper. Others snip it and and add a micro switch. I had Klaus put a switch in mine. I nearly always prefer bypassing the HP.
Also he put a hand picked Amperex tube in it, plus tweaked the capsule. Sounds amazing - like a finished record.
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Post by ragan on Aug 17, 2023 16:21:10 GMT -6
You could both be right. There's a jumper ("S2" on the circuit) that is a highpass. They ship with the highpass engaged. Most just leave it (or don't know). Some people snip that jumper. Others snip it and and add a micro switch. I had Klaus put a switch in mine. I nearly always prefer bypassing the HP.
Also he put a hand picked Amperex tube in it, plus tweaked the capsule. Sounds amazing - like a finished record.
What is the cutoff frequency of the jumpered-HP, do you know? |
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 17, 2023 17:33:09 GMT -6
I had Klaus put a switch in mine. I nearly always prefer bypassing the HP.
Also he put a hand picked Amperex tube in it, plus tweaked the capsule. Sounds amazing - like a finished record.
What is the cutoff frequency of the jumpered-HP, do you know? I think it’s around 40hz or so? They call it the rumble filter. |
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Post by christophert on Aug 17, 2023 17:44:14 GMT -6
What is the cutoff frequency of the jumpered-HP, do you know? I think it’s around 40hz or so? They call it the rumble filter. Interesting - it sounds a little higher than 40hz |
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 17, 2023 18:14:23 GMT -6
I think it’s around 40hz or so? They call it the rumble filter. Interesting - it sounds a little higher than 40hz We’re talking the S2 jumper mod, right? |
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Post by christophert on Aug 17, 2023 19:48:35 GMT -6
Interesting - it sounds a little higher than 40hz We’re talking the S2 jumper mod, right? Yes - S2. The switch is great to have.
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Post by gevermil on Aug 18, 2023 12:45:45 GMT -6
This thread inspired me to order a few tubes to try out in my mk67.
I found a 1964 amperex bugle boy and a 1967 orange globe . the dealer told me there is little difference if any with different amperex logos . guess I'll find out . I also picked up a e80f 6084 amperex to try . currently I have a pair of silver tele ef86s from bowie and a mesh English mullard that sound similar . hope to do a quick shoot out if I hear something dramatic
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Post by chessparov on Aug 18, 2023 13:45:52 GMT -6
What is the cutoff frequency of the jumpered-HP, do you know? I think it’s around 40hz or so? They call it the rumble filter. Too bad the Jets vs. Sharks in West Side Story didn't have one. Only switch-blades. Chris |
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Post by Ward on Aug 19, 2023 10:29:42 GMT -6
This thread inspired me to order a few tubes to try out in my mk67. I found a 1964 amperex bugle boy and a 1967 orange globe . the dealer told me there is little difference if any with different amperex logos . guess I'll find out . I also picked up a e80f 6084 amperex to try . currently I have a pair of silver tele ef86s from bowie and a mesh English mullard that sound similar . hope to do a quick shoot out if I hear something dramatic That’s fantastic !! Looking forward to a report |
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