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Post by crillemannen on Aug 13, 2023 12:11:21 GMT -6
Hi,
So I got a couple of different tubes here in the studio so I thought that I'd do a test! So David Fehér from NLP Audio was kind enough to send me a couple of tubes – RFT EF86, Mullard Ef86 UK, Valvo Ef86 and TF 806S.
A little info about the test: I measured the time between the tube changes, so they have the exact same dow/warmup-time. No processing, only level matched. It is quite hard to mimic the exact same take when you have downtime between the takes but I still think the test was quite interesting. You can also download the raw files, you find them in the YT description.
What do you guys think?
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 13, 2023 14:57:33 GMT -6
Crazy how different they sound! I mean it makes it sound like a different mic. I wasn't expecting such a DRASTIC difference.
My overall favorite is the Mullard, and it's not even close. It completely opens up the mic, especially on vocals, all the other sound choked, the Valvo a little less so. I really didn't like the RFT at all. Though to be honest, I would not pick this mic for your vocals.
I like the Tele on acoustic for a laid back acoustic sound that can sit back in a mix. Didn't think it sounded very good on the vocal. I would imagine drums would sound pretty cool with this one!
For this mic, I would want the Mullard and the Tele, the Mullard for most stuff, as it gives a nice hifi quality to the mic, that is often lacking in some old 67s and the Tele for some smooth, darker more compressed acoustics.
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 13, 2023 18:07:40 GMT -6
I have written this so often on forums and no one gives it much creedance but a tube can, as you see here, transform a mic. So often listeners attribute characteristics to a capsule that can easily be caused by a tube.
With tube stocks dwindling most known brands have been picked over many times and we are often left with the worst examples. This test could have easily been conducted using 4 examples of the same brand/era tube and they could all sound very different.
6072 tubes come to mind since I work with AKG mics for the most part. RCA 12ay7s sound like a completely different tube compared th GEs.
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Post by opr on Aug 14, 2023 1:07:27 GMT -6
Great work Christian! Although different brands have their own idiosyncrasies the next video should be four of the same brand just for a little extra enlightenment. Great work! I'll get one of my 251 to you in the next batch as this first lot are sold out.
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Post by crillemannen on Aug 14, 2023 1:36:54 GMT -6
Great work Christian! Although different brands have their own idiosyncrasies the next video should be four of the same brand just for a little extra enlightenment. Great work! I'll get one of my 251 to you in the next batch as this first lot are sold out. Thanks! I'd love to test your mic, build looks great 💪. I'll gladly do such tube test in a standaline episode with your mic if you provide tubes. I have a couple of 6072 at home but not the same brand.
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Post by crillemannen on Aug 14, 2023 1:51:40 GMT -6
Crazy how different they sound! I mean it makes it sound like a different mic. I wasn't expecting such a DRASTIC difference. My overall favorite is the Mullard, and it's not even close. It completely opens up the mic, especially on vocals, all the other sound choked, the Valvo a little less so. I really didn't like the RFT at all. Though to be honest, I would not pick this mic for your vocals. I like the Tele on acoustic for a laid back acoustic sound that can sit back in a mix. Didn't think it sounded very good on the vocal. I would imagine drums would sound pretty cool with this one! For this mic, I would want the Mullard and the Tele, the Mullard for most stuff, as it gives a nice hifi quality to the mic, that is often lacking in some old 67s and the Tele for some smooth, darker more compressed acoustics. Yes quite drastic right!? After listening some more I really like the Philips/Valvo. Made the guitar sound great! I'm just glad I personally didn't like the Telef. Because it's the most expensive by far. Yeah, I can't really stand the U67 on my voice. I got the feel that it would work great on drums, electric guitar etc. Just not on vocals.
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Post by stam on Aug 14, 2023 2:05:58 GMT -6
Incredible video. I am floored by the quality, congratulations. This is a hell of a job.
The differences are huge between each tube.
A good option would have been the Valvo E80F. This is the closest (with an Amperex) to the Telefunken EF806 and EF86.
My favorite was the EF806 and the Mullard second. The rest did not sound good to my ears.
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 14, 2023 2:07:45 GMT -6
Crazy how different they sound! I mean it makes it sound like a different mic. I wasn't expecting such a DRASTIC difference. My overall favorite is the Mullard, and it's not even close. It completely opens up the mic, especially on vocals, all the other sound choked, the Valvo a little less so. I really didn't like the RFT at all. Though to be honest, I would not pick this mic for your vocals. I like the Tele on acoustic for a laid back acoustic sound that can sit back in a mix. Didn't think it sounded very good on the vocal. I would imagine drums would sound pretty cool with this one! For this mic, I would want the Mullard and the Tele, the Mullard for most stuff, as it gives a nice hifi quality to the mic, that is often lacking in some old 67s and the Tele for some smooth, darker more compressed acoustics. Yes quite drastic right!? After listening some more I really like the Philips/Valvo. Made the guitar sound great! I'm just glad I personally didn't like the Telef. Because it's the most expensive by far. Yeah, I can't really stand the U67 on my voice. I got the feel that it would work great on drums, electric guitar etc. Just not on vocals. Interestingly I downloaded the files this morning and listened on my monitors and I came out favoring the Valvo too, as I found the Mullard maybe too agressive on the transients, definitely flattering on first listen but maybe a bit fatiguing? I still really like the Tele for acoustics haha If I absolutely had to use a 67 on your voice, I wouldn't be using a Neve as it's just low mid buildup galore. I think I'd probably use something like a Forssell, something with the least amount of color but yeah, I would choose another mic. I went back and listened to your 87 and it definitely sounds quite a bit better on your voice, it has a classic 70s sound out of the box on your vocals. And all the super clean modern mics, like the Redd, C800 also sounded good on your vocals but just a completely different vibe, and they'd need some work with deessing and a little smoothing but they would totally work for a more modern production.
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Post by ragan on Aug 14, 2023 11:11:58 GMT -6
Hi, So I got a couple of different tubes here in the studio so I thought that I'd do a test! So David Fehér from NLP Audio was kind enough to send me a couple of tubes – RFT EF86, Mullard Ef86 UK, Valvo Ef86 and TF 806S. A little info about the test: I measured the time between the tube changes, so they have the exact same dow/warmup-time. No processing, only level matched. It is quite hard to mimic the exact same take when you have downtime between the takes but I still think the test was quite interesting. You can also download the raw files, you find them in the YT description. What do you guys think? Super cool. I think the Tele is the best overall. Thanks for doing this, fun to hear.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 14, 2023 11:49:44 GMT -6
I'll check all this out tonight Christian. But... IMHO the 67/vocals assessment is "personal taste". Not a doubt in my mind you could be recorded with a OG 67, or one of the fine alternatives today... And still sound great! (Hey it worked "OK" at Motown on a "few" singers LOL!) Thanks again for all your videos. Chris
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Post by mike on Aug 14, 2023 20:00:20 GMT -6
Nice video as always Christian. Having rolled a bunch of different tubes in a 67 I'm not surprised and would just add my experience has been, 1. That even when you find a sonic brand of tube flavor that suits your taste, it still can be a tube by tube basis of going through several or more of that kind to find the one that matches your mic and ear better than the others. Just like Mic's, I've found whether tubes sound very different or similar I've never heard 2 of either sound identical.
and 2. while many people will say the tube in a 67 can make a big difference, more than in other gear,...I've honestly found that any gear with tubes in the audio path make an audible difference when you swap them out for another. Even same brand or years. FWIW.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 14, 2023 21:13:22 GMT -6
Well done Christian, thanks. I went back and forth between the Tele and the Mullard. It was kind of a tossup. I think I'd take the Mullard because I liked it on vocals.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 15, 2023 6:40:03 GMT -6
Tubes in certain microphones can make a huge difference. The U67 is particularly known for it's sensitivity to different tubes. Personally I love an Amperex EF86 in my custom MK U67.
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Post by Ward on Aug 15, 2023 7:58:56 GMT -6
After several listens . . .
Tele 806S Balanced. Not quite as nice as an 806s but handy to it. Millard Balanced but rounder than the Tele. Favorite for guitar RFT Brash. Hurts my ears a bit. But only in an icepick through my eardrums kind of way. Valco Dull. Nice for an intimate soft performance.
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Post by Ward on Aug 15, 2023 8:00:03 GMT -6
Tubes in certain microphones can make a huge difference. The U67 is particularly known for it's sensitivity to different tubes. Personally I love an Amperex EF86 in my custom MK U67. 100%. Almost turns it into an M269! Absolutely my favorite, but also an 806s is very useful for a little more upper mid forward capture/
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Post by EmRR on Aug 15, 2023 8:40:16 GMT -6
That other long thread about this has some other comparisons, if they're still up. I recall I tried 5-6 different tubes, all very different, far more different than any other tube swap I've ever done. Many many swaps are almost no difference at all, or if any perceived it's just as easily the slight gain difference suggesting more than is actually there.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 15, 2023 8:49:49 GMT -6
That other long thread about this has some other comparisons, if they're still up. I recall I tried 5-6 different tubes, all very different, far more different than any other tube swap I've ever done. Many many swaps are almost no difference at all, or if any perceived it's just as easily the slight gain difference suggesting more than is actually there. This one?
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Post by chessparov on Aug 15, 2023 8:51:09 GMT -6
Digging the Brimar in my BU67. Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 15, 2023 9:29:15 GMT -6
Digging the Brimar in my BU67. Chris Yeah, I think Ben found a nice alternative.
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Post by Ward on Aug 15, 2023 11:49:57 GMT -6
Digging the Brimar in my BU67. Chris Yeah, I think Ben found a nice alternative. Ben mics is one of those mic gurus in a class above all others. like wave, @klausheine, tskguy, Dallas Upton, David Bock, Dany Bouchard timcampbell, cserrano and a select few others!
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Post by chessparov on Aug 15, 2023 14:26:37 GMT -6
Yeah like... Who was that guy from Austin? 😉 Hmm... Something sorta like "Strange" in the name. LOL! (I keed I keed) Chris
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Post by Ward on Aug 15, 2023 17:49:14 GMT -6
Yeah like... Who was that guy from Austin? 😉 Hmm... Something sorta like "Strange" in the name. LOL! (I keed I keed) Chris Stranger Danger?
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Ari
Full Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Ari on Aug 15, 2023 20:34:46 GMT -6
What I'd really like to hear now is 4 of the "same" tube...
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Post by ml on Aug 16, 2023 12:21:13 GMT -6
My fav was Tele with the Valvo 2nd. Then the Mullard and RFT last (I did not like it). I have an Amperex coming in the mail for my 67 hoping its a good one! Thanks for the video.
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Post by Ward on Aug 16, 2023 13:21:03 GMT -6
My fav was Tele with the Valvo 2nd. Then the Mullard and RFT last (I did not like it). I have an Amperex coming in the mail for my 67 hoping its a good one! Thanks for the video. Yes the RFT is awful. I haven't heard a bad Amperex EF86 yet! I'll betcha it will be great.
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