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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2023 10:02:46 GMT -6
So to celebrate the forth coming arrival of my new Intel 13900K "go get em'" workstation.
I thought perhaps I'll look into mixing in Pro Tools (I do my songwriting and arranging in Cubase Pro 12)
An old and close friend of mine has always used PT from the TDM days to now he has a small HDX rig and he told me these days
Avid do a very well specified native version that works extremely well using one's own hardware under ASIO and runs brilliantly under Windows
11 too.
OK I thought, so I down loaded Pro Tools Intro (which is designed to let the user have a taste of Pro Tools software)
and I'm like wow hang on a moment.
This GUI feels and looks like Windows XP (genuinely shocked!) .... and boy it's a mouse click fest.
There's no text enter for fader values or pan values on the main mixer elements, there's no text search for tracks,
no auto ping for hardware inserts to calculate a/d/a delay, no mixer GUI scaling, no mixer history, it's a long list of missing modern features
.....compared to the Cubase Pro 12 mixer there's almost no workflow features I'd expect in a modern DAW.
My son was looking over my shoulder as I was trying out PT and he made a point, he said isn't PT designed to work with
$30K+ control surfaces which mitigate the need for so much clicking around and for the GUI being as it is.
I'm not knocking Pro Tools (not even in the slightest) I get it, it's industry standard for a reason and it's scalable - you can spend $250,000
on a HDX, S series rig!
Plus, if I was recording say Eric Clapton at the Albert Hall for a one off never to be missed Cream re-union gig I'd want an HDX rig
not an RME Rydat/Ferrofish rig .... I get that .... 101% reliable.
But still, what am I missing here?
Is it simply not aimed at project studios like mine that can't afford a large Avid control surface?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2023 11:17:31 GMT -6
Maybe First is limited…I can search and type in values on PT medium or whatever mine is called. (Not ultimate) ETA: PT Studio
But yeah. The lack of HW DLC ping is terribly annoying.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2023 11:31:14 GMT -6
Maybe First is limited…I can search and type in values on PT medium or whatever mine is called. (Not ultimate) ETA: PT Studio But yeah. The lack of HW DLC ping is terribly annoying. Ah ha .... Intro has a limited feature set! It would make more sense for Avid to give a 30 day demo of the full software like Steinberg do, then potential users like me wouldn't get a negative first experience. First impressions matter (as they say) |
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Post by notneeson on Jul 30, 2023 12:00:33 GMT -6
Maybe First is limited…I can search and type in values on PT medium or whatever mine is called. (Not ultimate) ETA: PT Studio But yeah. The lack of HW DLC ping is terribly annoying. Ah ha .... Intro has a limited feature set! It would make more sense for Avid to give a 30 day demo of the full software like Steinberg do, then potential users like me wouldn't get a negative first experience. First impressions matter (as they say) PT First is terrible. I can’t particularly remember the details, but I tried it for about 30 minutes when I was in a pinch one time and it was a very frustrating experience. And this is from someone with very few complaints about their flagship products. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 30, 2023 12:12:31 GMT -6
Ah ha .... Intro has a limited feature set! It would make more sense for Avid to give a 30 day demo of the full software like Steinberg do, then potential users like me wouldn't get a negative first experience. First impressions matter (as they say) PT First is terrible. I can’t particularly remember the details, but I tried it for about 30 minutes when I was in a pinch one time and it was a very frustrating experience. And this is from someone with very few complaints about their flagship products. Similar to the OP, I recently went through a "hey, maybe I'll give this a shot and get on the train with everyone else." There's something to be said for adopting the "standard." And... nope. Again, just like OP... I was very surprised at the dated user experience even with this new version. Basic stuff. And for anyone that is used to Cubase or Studio One or any of the very user friendly DAW's out there it's a massive step back in that respect. And then it's like... well if I'm going to go for rock solid stability and deal with nonsense (and ugly) user interface, I've got Reaper for that. Frustrating though because there's so much about the AVID ecosystem that is appealing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2023 14:03:11 GMT -6
But still, what am I missing here? Is it simply not aimed at project studios like mine that can't afford a large Avid control surface? I've never used Pro Tools First but it sounds to me like you're describing Pro Tools LE.. I used that decades ago with one of those digidesign Mbox thingies and yeah, it was hmm. I run Studio and it really doesn't look any different to most DAW's, mines on the Knight Rider style dark interface. It does help to know a few basic shortcuts but apart from that no bothers.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2023 14:27:06 GMT -6
I have an S6 and an S1.
You can get the AvidPlay app for free and it allows you to control protools very well.
Protools has the ultimate Eucon experiance with controllers.
But, are you sure you're using a new version? I mean to be fair the layout has not changed in years. But I wouldn't call it dated..
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2023 14:53:54 GMT -6
I have an S6 and an S1. You can get the AvidPlay app for free and it allows you to control protools very well. Protools has the ultimate Eucon experiance with controllers. But, are you sure you're using a new version? I mean to be fair the layout has not changed in years. But I wouldn't call it dated.. It’s called PT Intro 2023.6 Is that a long way behind? |
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Post by notneeson on Jul 30, 2023 18:33:07 GMT -6
PT First is terrible. I can’t particularly remember the details, but I tried it for about 30 minutes when I was in a pinch one time and it was a very frustrating experience. And this is from someone with very few complaints about their flagship products. Similar to the OP, I recently went through a "hey, maybe I'll give this a shot and get on the train with everyone else." There's something to be said for adopting the "standard." And... nope. Again, just like OP... I was very surprised at the dated user experience even with this new version. Basic stuff. And for anyone that is used to Cubase or Studio One or any of the very user friendly DAW's out there it's a massive step back in that respect. And then it's like... well if I'm going to go for rock solid stability and deal with nonsense (and ugly) user interface, I've got Reaper for that. Frustrating though because there's so much about the AVID ecosystem that is appealing. What you are describing, is exactly how I feel when I open up Logic.  I fully admit though, 24 years into daily Pro Tools use it is really hard to consider changing up, the fact that it makes sense to me in no way makes it a superior tool. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 30, 2023 19:11:08 GMT -6
Similar to the OP, I recently went through a "hey, maybe I'll give this a shot and get on the train with everyone else." There's something to be said for adopting the "standard." And... nope. Again, just like OP... I was very surprised at the dated user experience even with this new version. Basic stuff. And for anyone that is used to Cubase or Studio One or any of the very user friendly DAW's out there it's a massive step back in that respect. And then it's like... well if I'm going to go for rock solid stability and deal with nonsense (and ugly) user interface, I've got Reaper for that. Frustrating though because there's so much about the AVID ecosystem that is appealing. What you are describing, is exactly how I feel when I open up Logic. I fully admit though, 24 years into daily Pro Tools use it is really hard to consider changing up, the fact that it makes sense to me in no way makes it a superior tool. One of my good buddies is a lifetime Cubase guy. Took one spin around the block and his quote was “They named this Logic? Is that supposed to be ironic?” |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2023 23:47:55 GMT -6
I have an S6 and an S1. You can get the AvidPlay app for free and it allows you to control protools very well. Protools has the ultimate Eucon experiance with controllers. But, are you sure you're using a new version? I mean to be fair the layout has not changed in years. But I wouldn't call it dated.. It’s called PT Intro 2023.6 Is that a long way behind? nope that is up to date. but i use the HD software. Nothing about it looks like windows xp to me. you can text edit fader values and such too. Just double click I believe. If you need to zero it out or center it you hold control and click on any parameter and it'll go back to default or 0. Or maybe it's alt+click. can't remember, always get my keyboard short cuts mixed up going from mac to PC. That said I agree the mixer is very basic. But you have to just build it the way you want it to work. The mixer isn't sperate from tracks like some daws so history is just normal undo. HDX does delay compensation automatically for hardware inserts and is still the most accurate and fastest. Plus easiest too use, i know someone is gonna come in a rave about apollo's and their latency or something. But using another piece of software to mix/record. No thanks. You can still buy the Protools Ulitamte without the HDX hardware and get all the features. Although the regular protools now has most of Ultimates anyways. At least the good ones like advance automation features. You dont' need a surface to "unlock" protools by any means. Does help since Eucon is so well integrated since Avid owns Eucon. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 31, 2023 0:11:57 GMT -6
It’s called PT Intro 2023.6 Is that a long way behind? nope that is up to date. but i use the HD software. Nothing about it looks like windows xp to me. you can text edit fader values and such too. Just double click I believe. If you need to zero it out or center it you hold control and click on any parameter and it'll go back to default or 0. Or maybe it's alt+click. can't remember, always get my keyboard short cuts mixed up going from mac to PC. That said I agree the mixer is very basic. But you have to just build it the way you want it to work. The mixer isn't sperate from tracks like some daws so history is just normal undo. HDX does delay compensation automatically for hardware inserts and is still the most accurate and fastest. Plus easiest too use, i know someone is gonna come in a rave about apollo's and their latency or something. But using another piece of software to mix/record. No thanks. You can still buy the Protools Ulitamte without the HDX hardware and get all the features. Although the regular protools now has most of Ultimates anyways. At least the good ones like advance automation features. You dont' need a surface to "unlock" protools by any means. Does help since Eucon is so well integrated since Avid owns Eucon. Thank you for that. I think if I want to give PT a proper go I’m going to have to sign up for a year to Pro Tools Studio (I don’t need Ultimate) there is things about the software I find appealing but I need to drill down and make sure there would be personal advantages to me learning PT over Cubase Pro 12. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 31, 2023 0:14:34 GMT -6
nope that is up to date. but i use the HD software. Nothing about it looks like windows xp to me. you can text edit fader values and such too. Just double click I believe. If you need to zero it out or center it you hold control and click on any parameter and it'll go back to default or 0. Or maybe it's alt+click. can't remember, always get my keyboard short cuts mixed up going from mac to PC. That said I agree the mixer is very basic. But you have to just build it the way you want it to work. The mixer isn't sperate from tracks like some daws so history is just normal undo. HDX does delay compensation automatically for hardware inserts and is still the most accurate and fastest. Plus easiest too use, i know someone is gonna come in a rave about apollo's and their latency or something. But using another piece of software to mix/record. No thanks. You can still buy the Protools Ulitamte without the HDX hardware and get all the features. Although the regular protools now has most of Ultimates anyways. At least the good ones like advance automation features. You dont' need a surface to "unlock" protools by any means. Does help since Eucon is so well integrated since Avid owns Eucon. Thank you for that. I think if I want to give PT a proper go I’m going to have to sign up for a year to Pro Tools Studio (I don’t need Ultimate) there is things about the software I find appealing but I need to drill down and make sure there would be personal advantages to me learning PT over Cubase Pro 12. My assistant was and still is a huge Cubase guy. Works in PT as he has too for our projects. He still uses Cubase full time for his own work if that says anything to you. He does love some features of Protools but just know Cubase better and likes to live there since he knows it better. FWIW |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 31, 2023 12:06:39 GMT -6
It’s called PT Intro 2023.6 Is that a long way behind? Plus easiest too use, i know someone is gonna come in a rave about apollo's and their latency or something. But using another piece of software to mix/record. No thanks. This is the dumbest workflow (sorry UA, love ya) and the reason I ended up selling my Apollo stuff. Multiple programs to do one damn thing. I just couldn't take it anymore. |
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I fully admit though, 24 years into daily Pro Tools use it is really hard to consider changing up, the fact that it makes sense to me in no way makes it a superior tool.