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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 26, 2023 23:43:15 GMT -6
I'm researching some one room recording techniques I want to try and came across this one. But I'm struggling to understand exactly what it is that everyone is describing or to find any photos depicting it. The general idea is that you line up the amplifiers with the front of the kick drum. Reportedly the drum bleed into the amps isn't so bad (I can get that) but isn't the amp bleed into the drums simply outrageous? Feels to me like the drum overheads would basically become room mics. drumsound you've chimed in on this technique in the past. Can you elaborate? |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 27, 2023 0:58:31 GMT -6
This works via the "barn stall" method. Basically you put dividers between everything X|X|X Amp|Drums|Amp So all in a line. I've done it, works well enough. But these days I just use ribbons on amps when they have to be next to a drum kit, them time align them all and it sounds great. The Isolation from the ribbons is excellent and aligning the amps to the overheads usually tightens things up great. Or kick drum. Just depends. Also, the Glynn John's drum technique, while cool. Really only works on drummer that play like John B did. And tracking to Tape. That's just my opinion but honestly is the only way I've ever gotten it to sound great like the Led Zeppelin stuff. Otherwise there is just way too much cymbals. Case and point: I got to help track this session which was a great rock band. They wanted to do the Glynn Johns drum technique and the Barn stall setup so we did. You can here the drums as I had them mixed, isolation is pretty great. But then I slammed them through a Studer a810 1/4'' tape machine. And bam! Thats what you want. Made the drums huge. Old school compression technique. can here it here: soundcloud.com/monte_n/sets/strange-ways-drums?si=1aab737f32724e31b2441f70c3abf985&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-dry-drums%3Fsi%3Df979ea4e67334a6cb8706926ee60c6b0%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-tape-drums%3Fsi%3De16d6091f22b49f08d1f8161ebab7c24%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-by-the-judge-full%3Fsi%3D1a4c939a316d41d39846d1df9784202f%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharingSo yeah. I don't know. I don't ever want to do this drum mic technique unless I know what the drummer is doing and probably have a tape machine lying around. |
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Post by svart on Jul 27, 2023 7:46:12 GMT -6
The times that I've had to record amps and drums in the same small room, I typically angle the amps so that they face away from the drums but also so that their mics are all on a tangent from the drums to get the most rejection from the mics. From there I'll add acoustic panels between areas to help cut some more of the bleed.
You'll never get all the amps out of the drum mics and you'll never get all the drums out of the amp mics, but you can minimize them.
However, now I'll just DI the guitars, send them through amp sims and back out to the headphones so that players can hear themselves play through "amps" in their headphones. If I don't use the amp sims, I'll reamp the DI through real amps later.
I've had players really object to trying it this way, but nobody had a problem with it after they tried it though. Seems that misconceptions about using sims run amok.
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Post by mcirish on Jul 27, 2023 8:38:25 GMT -6
If you have a large enough studio, that Glyn Johns idea would work. In my case, I can't pull it off due to limited space. (20x20)
I track bass direct and put the guitar amp in another room or use a Captor X so there is no need for a mic. Problem solved.
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Post by drumsound on Jul 27, 2023 9:37:12 GMT -6
I'm researching some one room recording techniques I want to try and came across this one. But I'm struggling to understand exactly what it is that everyone is describing or to find any photos depicting it. The general idea is that you line up the amplifiers with the front of the kick drum. Reportedly the drum bleed into the amps isn't so bad (I can get that) but isn't the amp bleed into the drums simply outrageous? Feels to me like the drum overheads would basically become room mics. drumsound you've chimed in on this technique in the past. Can you elaborate? @blackdog pretty much nailed what I would have posted, plus he has great sounding examples to back it up. I don't recall. but he may have been the assistant when I did this at Webster University many years ago. Jeff Powell (Take Out Vinyl formerly Ardent Studios) did a couple records with Glyn Johns and he hipped us all to the technique. My good friend, the late Chris Garges did it a good amount of times at Old House Studios in Charlotte to great effect. You can use full/normal/modern micing on the drums and still get good separation and a different sound than Blackdog's on drums. My room is a little tight for doing it, but I did it with a full jazz band with bass amp and guitar amp on either side of the drums plus 5 trombones all with ribbons whose nulls were pointed at the drums and it worked great. Sadly, I can't seem to find that record online to link to. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 27, 2023 10:08:03 GMT -6
This works via the "barn stall" method. Basically you put dividers between everything X|X|X Amp|Drums|Amp So all in a line. I've done it, works well enough. But these days I just use ribbons on amps when they have to be next to a drum kit, them time align them all and it sounds great. The Isolation from the ribbons is excellent and aligning the amps to the overheads usually tightens things up great. Or kick drum. Just depends. Also, the Glynn John's drum technique, while cool. Really only works on drummer that play like John B did. And tracking to Tape. That's just my opinion but honestly is the only way I've ever gotten it to sound great like the Led Zeppelin stuff. Otherwise there is just way too much cymbals. Case and point: I got to help track this session which was a great rock band. They wanted to do the Glynn Johns drum technique and the Barn stall setup so we did. You can here the drums as I had them mixed, isolation is pretty great. But then I slammed them through a Studer a810 1/4'' tape machine. And bam! Thats what you want. Made the drums huge. Old school compression technique. can here it here: soundcloud.com/monte_n/sets/strange-ways-drums?si=1aab737f32724e31b2441f70c3abf985&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-dry-drums%3Fsi%3Df979ea4e67334a6cb8706926ee60c6b0%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-tape-drums%3Fsi%3De16d6091f22b49f08d1f8161ebab7c24%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-by-the-judge-full%3Fsi%3D1a4c939a316d41d39846d1df9784202f%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharingSo yeah. I don't know. I don't ever want to do this drum mic technique unless I know what the drummer is doing and probably have a tape machine lying around. So this particular project is my band and I am kind of anti-cymbals as is my drummer. I use sort of a modified Glyn Johns on drums or sometimes mid-side. Actually, he's a really easy drummer to record. Consistent striker and light on the cymbals. What intrigued me was this idea of really thinking through the amp placement with the overheads. I'm going for a kind of a Basement Tapes type vibe but hopefully slightly higher fidelity. But I don't mind if the whole thing kind of sounds like a bootleg, I just want it to sound like a really good bootleg. EDIT: Also, I could definitely live with that bleed. Actually I specifically want some bleed, probably wouldn't want any less than that. Good takes there, thanks for sharing. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 27, 2023 10:09:29 GMT -6
I'm researching some one room recording techniques I want to try and came across this one. But I'm struggling to understand exactly what it is that everyone is describing or to find any photos depicting it. The general idea is that you line up the amplifiers with the front of the kick drum. Reportedly the drum bleed into the amps isn't so bad (I can get that) but isn't the amp bleed into the drums simply outrageous? Feels to me like the drum overheads would basically become room mics. drumsound you've chimed in on this technique in the past. Can you elaborate? @blackdog pretty much nailed what I would have posted, plus he has great sounding examples to back it up. I don't recall. but he may have been the assistant when I did this at Webster University many years ago. Jeff Powell (Take Out Vinyl formerly Ardent Studios) did a couple records with Glyn Johns and he hipped us all to the technique. My good friend, the late Chris Garges did it a good amount of times at Old House Studios in Charlotte to great effect. You can use full/normal/modern micing on the drums and still get good separation and a different sound than Blackdog's on drums. My room is a little tight for doing it, but I did it with a full jazz band with bass amp and guitar amp on either side of the drums plus 5 trombones all with ribbons whose nulls were pointed at the drums and it worked great. Sadly, I can't seem to find that record online to link to. The cool thing is this is also going to be our rehearsal space so I have plenty of room to experiment with different setups and then take them back to my mixing room and see how it went. Just wanted to make sure I understand what this setup even is, I think I get it now. |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 27, 2023 10:46:00 GMT -6
@blackdog pretty much nailed what I would have posted, plus he has great sounding examples to back it up. I don't recall. but he may have been the assistant when I did this at Webster University many years ago. Jeff Powell (Take Out Vinyl formerly Ardent Studios) did a couple records with Glyn Johns and he hipped us all to the technique. My good friend, the late Chris Garges did it a good amount of times at Old House Studios in Charlotte to great effect. You can use full/normal/modern micing on the drums and still get good separation and a different sound than Blackdog's on drums. My room is a little tight for doing it, but I did it with a full jazz band with bass amp and guitar amp on either side of the drums plus 5 trombones all with ribbons whose nulls were pointed at the drums and it worked great. Sadly, I can't seem to find that record online to link to. The cool thing is this is also going to be our rehearsal space so I have plenty of room to experiment with different setups and then take them back to my mixing room and see how it went. Just wanted to make sure I understand what this setup even is, I think I get it now. Nice. do you have gobos? Please bump this as you experiment! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2023 12:06:32 GMT -6
The biggest issue I've had with drums and amps in the same room tracking live is the bass amp making the snares constantly buzz.
I wouldn't do the Glynn John's overhead thing personally. I prefer 3 overheads. A pair of tight cymbal spot mics and a center ribbon mic up high above the drummers right knee, catching the shells more and some kick batter. Also a front of kit room mic and stereo room mics. And of course hats and ride spot mics.
D--->
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 27, 2023 12:33:20 GMT -6
This works via the "barn stall" method. Basically you put dividers between everything X|X|X Amp|Drums|Amp So all in a line. I've done it, works well enough. But these days I just use ribbons on amps when they have to be next to a drum kit, them time align them all and it sounds great. The Isolation from the ribbons is excellent and aligning the amps to the overheads usually tightens things up great. Or kick drum. Just depends. Also, the Glynn John's drum technique, while cool. Really only works on drummer that play like John B did. And tracking to Tape. That's just my opinion but honestly is the only way I've ever gotten it to sound great like the Led Zeppelin stuff. Otherwise there is just way too much cymbals. Case and point: I got to help track this session which was a great rock band. They wanted to do the Glynn Johns drum technique and the Barn stall setup so we did. You can here the drums as I had them mixed, isolation is pretty great. But then I slammed them through a Studer a810 1/4'' tape machine. And bam! Thats what you want. Made the drums huge. Old school compression technique. can here it here: soundcloud.com/monte_n/sets/strange-ways-drums?si=1aab737f32724e31b2441f70c3abf985&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-dry-drums%3Fsi%3Df979ea4e67334a6cb8706926ee60c6b0%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-tape-drums%3Fsi%3De16d6091f22b49f08d1f8161ebab7c24%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/monte_n/strange-ways-by-the-judge-full%3Fsi%3D1a4c939a316d41d39846d1df9784202f%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharingSo yeah. I don't know. I don't ever want to do this drum mic technique unless I know what the drummer is doing and probably have a tape machine lying around. So this particular project is my band and I am kind of anti-cymbals as is my drummer. I use sort of a modified Glyn Johns on drums or sometimes mid-side. Actually, he's a really easy drummer to record. Consistent striker and light on the cymbals. What intrigued me was this idea of really thinking through the amp placement with the overheads. I'm going for a kind of a Basement Tapes type vibe but hopefully slightly higher fidelity. But I don't mind if the whole thing kind of sounds like a bootleg, I just want it to sound like a really good bootleg. EDIT: Also, I could definitely live with that bleed. Actually I specifically want some bleed, probably wouldn't want any less than that. Good takes there, thanks for sharing. If you get things placed right you shouldn't have any issues. Im mixing a band i recorded doing a live concert and the bass amp and guitar amp are right next to the drum set. I used Ribbons on all of it. SF1's on the guitar and bass amp. N8's on the drum overheads and kick. Everything is sounding great in the mix. Plus the real benefit is hopefully all the players are in the room together too and that will force them to listen to eachother. I'd strongly recommend not allowing anyone to use headphones and then they will balance themselves marvelously. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 27, 2023 12:36:21 GMT -6
I'm researching some one room recording techniques I want to try and came across this one. But I'm struggling to understand exactly what it is that everyone is describing or to find any photos depicting it. The general idea is that you line up the amplifiers with the front of the kick drum. Reportedly the drum bleed into the amps isn't so bad (I can get that) but isn't the amp bleed into the drums simply outrageous? Feels to me like the drum overheads would basically become room mics. drumsound you've chimed in on this technique in the past. Can you elaborate? @blackdog pretty much nailed what I would have posted, plus he has great sounding examples to back it up. I don't recall. but he may have been the assistant when I did this at Webster University many years ago. Jeff Powell (Take Out Vinyl formerly Ardent Studios) did a couple records with Glyn Johns and he hipped us all to the technique. My good friend, the late Chris Garges did it a good amount of times at Old House Studios in Charlotte to great effect. You can use full/normal/modern micing on the drums and still get good separation and a different sound than Blackdog's on drums. My room is a little tight for doing it, but I did it with a full jazz band with bass amp and guitar amp on either side of the drums plus 5 trombones all with ribbons whose nulls were pointed at the drums and it worked great. Sadly, I can't seem to find that record online to link to. Definitely assissted you and Johnathan on a few things. Not sure if I got to do that particular session though. Man that was a long time ago. Ribbons are the best. I honestly am becoming such a fan of ribbons. So much emphasis is put on condenser mics and I guess dynamic mics as an up and coming engineer. But ribbons, so good. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 27, 2023 13:47:55 GMT -6
The cool thing is this is also going to be our rehearsal space so I have plenty of room to experiment with different setups and then take them back to my mixing room and see how it went. Just wanted to make sure I understand what this setup even is, I think I get it now. Nice. do you have gobos? Please bump this as you experiment! Gobos galore. I'm going to build some bigger ones since I'll have more space in this new spot, but I've got tons of 4x2's. Yeah, I will for sure. It's gonna be fun. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 27, 2023 13:56:47 GMT -6
So this particular project is my band and I am kind of anti-cymbals as is my drummer. I use sort of a modified Glyn Johns on drums or sometimes mid-side. Actually, he's a really easy drummer to record. Consistent striker and light on the cymbals. What intrigued me was this idea of really thinking through the amp placement with the overheads. I'm going for a kind of a Basement Tapes type vibe but hopefully slightly higher fidelity. But I don't mind if the whole thing kind of sounds like a bootleg, I just want it to sound like a really good bootleg. EDIT: Also, I could definitely live with that bleed. Actually I specifically want some bleed, probably wouldn't want any less than that. Good takes there, thanks for sharing. If you get things placed right you shouldn't have any issues. Im mixing a band i recorded doing a live concert and the bass amp and guitar amp are right next to the drum set. I used Ribbons on all of it. SF1's on the guitar and bass amp. N8's on the drum overheads and kick. Everything is sounding great in the mix. Plus the real benefit is hopefully all the players are in the room together too and that will force them to listen to eachother. I'd strongly recommend not allowing anyone to use headphones and then they will balance themselves marvelously. We're a pretty tight group. The guys have already put up with me recording probably 30 - 40 hours of rehearsals. At this point they just put up with whatever goofball idea I'm throwing at them. No headphones? Haha. If I even say it out loud they'll be like "wait you've had headphone amps this whole time and you've been holding out on us?" I had an interesting idea. I have a whole bunch of old studio monitors that are still lying around cuz I never sell anything even when I say I'm going to. I was thinking about spot placing studio monitors with very low levels so that the guys can hear a bit more if needed. I've got plenty of extra sends I could do this with, zero hassle. But would it be better to just go with "dude, if you can't hear [insert insert instrument] just play softer?" I feel like I at least need to amplify the acoustic guitar and I feel like if I send vocals to the individual spot monitors, I can put less in the mains and probably minimize bleed and weird phasey vocals (although I kinda like weird phasey vocals for a "basement" project like this so...). My dream would be to somehow be able to throw up my Signal Art U48 clone for vocals. I mean... why not? Get the band sounding great on the bleed in that beauty and then just fade in the all the instrument mics (counting drums as in instrument) until the balance sounds good. |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 27, 2023 15:45:54 GMT -6
If you get things placed right you shouldn't have any issues. Im mixing a band i recorded doing a live concert and the bass amp and guitar amp are right next to the drum set. I used Ribbons on all of it. SF1's on the guitar and bass amp. N8's on the drum overheads and kick. Everything is sounding great in the mix. Plus the real benefit is hopefully all the players are in the room together too and that will force them to listen to eachother. I'd strongly recommend not allowing anyone to use headphones and then they will balance themselves marvelously. We're a pretty tight group. The guys have already put up with me recording probably 30 - 40 hours of rehearsals. At this point they just put up with whatever goofball idea I'm throwing at them. No headphones? Haha. If I even say it out loud they'll be like "wait you've had headphone amps this whole time and you've been holding out on us?" I had an interesting idea. I have a whole bunch of old studio monitors that are still lying around cuz I never sell anything even when I say I'm going to. I was thinking about spot placing studio monitors with very low levels so that the guys can hear a bit more if needed. I've got plenty of extra sends I could do this with, zero hassle. But would it be better to just go with "dude, if you can't hear [insert insert instrument] just play softer?" I feel like I at least need to amplify the acoustic guitar and I feel like if I send vocals to the individual spot monitors, I can put less in the mains and probably minimize bleed and weird phasey vocals (although I kinda like weird phasey vocals for a "basement" project like this so...). My dream would be to somehow be able to throw up my Signal Art U48 clone for vocals. I mean... why not? Get the band sounding great on the bleed in that beauty and then just fade in the all the instrument mics (counting drums as in instrument) until the balance sounds good. Hell, use the U48 in figure 8 and use those beautiful nulls! |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 27, 2023 15:46:23 GMT -6
@blackdog pretty much nailed what I would have posted, plus he has great sounding examples to back it up. I don't recall. but he may have been the assistant when I did this at Webster University many years ago. Jeff Powell (Take Out Vinyl formerly Ardent Studios) did a couple records with Glyn Johns and he hipped us all to the technique. My good friend, the late Chris Garges did it a good amount of times at Old House Studios in Charlotte to great effect. You can use full/normal/modern micing on the drums and still get good separation and a different sound than Blackdog's on drums. My room is a little tight for doing it, but I did it with a full jazz band with bass amp and guitar amp on either side of the drums plus 5 trombones all with ribbons whose nulls were pointed at the drums and it worked great. Sadly, I can't seem to find that record online to link to. Definitely assissted you and Johnathan on a few things. Not sure if I got to do that particular session though. Man that was a long time ago. Ribbons are the best. I honestly am becoming such a fan of ribbons. So much emphasis is put on condenser mics and I guess dynamic mics as an up and coming engineer. But ribbons, so good. Have you seen what they've done with the joint? |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 27, 2023 15:48:34 GMT -6
We're a pretty tight group. The guys have already put up with me recording probably 30 - 40 hours of rehearsals. At this point they just put up with whatever goofball idea I'm throwing at them. No headphones? Haha. If I even say it out loud they'll be like "wait you've had headphone amps this whole time and you've been holding out on us?" I had an interesting idea. I have a whole bunch of old studio monitors that are still lying around cuz I never sell anything even when I say I'm going to. I was thinking about spot placing studio monitors with very low levels so that the guys can hear a bit more if needed. I've got plenty of extra sends I could do this with, zero hassle. But would it be better to just go with "dude, if you can't hear [insert insert instrument] just play softer?" I feel like I at least need to amplify the acoustic guitar and I feel like if I send vocals to the individual spot monitors, I can put less in the mains and probably minimize bleed and weird phasey vocals (although I kinda like weird phasey vocals for a "basement" project like this so...). My dream would be to somehow be able to throw up my Signal Art U48 clone for vocals. I mean... why not? Get the band sounding great on the bleed in that beauty and then just fade in the all the instrument mics (counting drums as in instrument) until the balance sounds good. Hell, use the U48 in figure 8 and use those beautiful nulls! Yep. That's the first thing I'm gonna try. Worst comes to worse I end up with m88 on vocals which sounds good on my voice and has great rejection. But sure would be a whole lot cooler to have something... cooler! |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 27, 2023 15:49:36 GMT -6
Hell, use the U48 in figure 8 and use those beautiful nulls! Yep. That's the first thing I'm gonna try. Worst comes to worse I end up with m88 on vocals which sounds good on my voice and has great rejection. But sure would be a whole lot cooler to have something... cooler! M88s are my favorite mic in the world. The rejection and the sound are great. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 27, 2023 15:54:53 GMT -6
Yep. That's the first thing I'm gonna try. Worst comes to worse I end up with m88 on vocals which sounds good on my voice and has great rejection. But sure would be a whole lot cooler to have something... cooler! M88s are my favorite mic in the world. The rejection and the sound are great. My only thing is that the plosives are nuts on that mic. I love it otherwise. And in this case, with no headphone monitoring and tracking live as we go... I can see that being a thing. I could be popping like crazy and not even know it. But that mic really agrees with my voice. So it's my plan if I can't pull off an LDC live in the room. |
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Post by Ward on Jul 27, 2023 15:56:48 GMT -6
Funny you mention the 'Glyn Johns' (aka recorder man) technique!
Even Mr. Johns doesn't use it anymore. I've seen him scoff at the idea of using it now.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 27, 2023 16:12:23 GMT -6
If you get things placed right you shouldn't have any issues. Im mixing a band i recorded doing a live concert and the bass amp and guitar amp are right next to the drum set. I used Ribbons on all of it. SF1's on the guitar and bass amp. N8's on the drum overheads and kick. Everything is sounding great in the mix. Plus the real benefit is hopefully all the players are in the room together too and that will force them to listen to eachother. I'd strongly recommend not allowing anyone to use headphones and then they will balance themselves marvelously. We're a pretty tight group. The guys have already put up with me recording probably 30 - 40 hours of rehearsals. At this point they just put up with whatever goofball idea I'm throwing at them. No headphones? Haha. If I even say it out loud they'll be like "wait you've had headphone amps this whole time and you've been holding out on us?" I had an interesting idea. I have a whole bunch of old studio monitors that are still lying around cuz I never sell anything even when I say I'm going to. I was thinking about spot placing studio monitors with very low levels so that the guys can hear a bit more if needed. I've got plenty of extra sends I could do this with, zero hassle. But would it be better to just go with "dude, if you can't hear [insert insert instrument] just play softer?" I feel like I at least need to amplify the acoustic guitar and I feel like if I send vocals to the individual spot monitors, I can put less in the mains and probably minimize bleed and weird phasey vocals (although I kinda like weird phasey vocals for a "basement" project like this so...). My dream would be to somehow be able to throw up my Signal Art U48 clone for vocals. I mean... why not? Get the band sounding great on the bleed in that beauty and then just fade in the all the instrument mics (counting drums as in instrument) until the balance sounds good. Hell if frank Sinatra can stand in front of a big band with a u48 and sing. You should be able too. I've used monitors before long as you manage level responsibility and still make the listen to each other should work fine. Tony Benet recorded that way. Two floor wedges on either side if him. Never wore headphones ever. And wanted to track live with the rhythm section every time. Did that his entire career. Definitely assissted you and Johnathan on a few things. Not sure if I got to do that particular session though. Man that was a long time ago. Ribbons are the best. I honestly am becoming such a fan of ribbons. So much emphasis is put on condenser mics and I guess dynamic mics as an up and coming engineer. But ribbons, so good. Have you seen what they've done with the joint? I haven't! Have seen a photo or two. Haven't been back. Maybe someday I'll get invited to the aes convention ha |
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Post by smashlord on Jul 27, 2023 16:46:09 GMT -6
Funny you mention the 'Glyn Johns' (aka recorder man) technique! Even Mr. Johns doesn't use it anymore. I've seen him scoff at the idea of using it now. I've always had mixed results with it. I think its one of those things where success with it depends on how the drummer arranges his or her kit.... sometimes it works out cool, other times you have ride right up the center channel fighting the vocal. Then there is the nomadic kick drum...... |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 27, 2023 17:11:52 GMT -6
Funny you mention the 'Glyn Johns' (aka recorder man) technique! Even Mr. Johns doesn't use it anymore. I've seen him scoff at the idea of using it now. I've always had mixed results with it. I think its one of those things where success with it depends on how the drummer arranges his or her kit.... sometimes it works out cool, other times you have ride right up the center channel fighting the vocal. Then there is the nomadic kick drum...... Very style dependent. The main thing I like is a more natural sounding kit. It’s purely just a taste thing. I just personally don’t like the sound of clothes made Drums very much, but that is not a question of quality, just a style preference. My go to is M/S overhead, outside kick, condenser on snare. But for this thread, I’m more interested in the amplifiers being close to the drums, something I hadn’t really considered. |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 27, 2023 17:50:18 GMT -6
M88s are my favorite mic in the world. The rejection and the sound are great. My only thing is that the plosives are nuts on that mic. I love it otherwise. And in this case, with no headphone monitoring and tracking live as we go... I can see that being a thing. I could be popping like crazy and not even know it. But that mic really agrees with my voice. So it's my plan if I can't pull off an LDC live in the room. You can use a pop filter and/or sing slightly off axis. Funny you mention the 'Glyn Johns' (aka recorder man) technique! Even Mr. Johns doesn't use it anymore. I've seen him scoff at the idea of using it now. He did on the Benmont Tench record. We're a pretty tight group. The guys have already put up with me recording probably 30 - 40 hours of rehearsals. At this point they just put up with whatever goofball idea I'm throwing at them. No headphones? Haha. If I even say it out loud they'll be like "wait you've had headphone amps this whole time and you've been holding out on us?" I had an interesting idea. I have a whole bunch of old studio monitors that are still lying around cuz I never sell anything even when I say I'm going to. I was thinking about spot placing studio monitors with very low levels so that the guys can hear a bit more if needed. I've got plenty of extra sends I could do this with, zero hassle. But would it be better to just go with "dude, if you can't hear [insert insert instrument] just play softer?" I feel like I at least need to amplify the acoustic guitar and I feel like if I send vocals to the individual spot monitors, I can put less in the mains and probably minimize bleed and weird phasey vocals (although I kinda like weird phasey vocals for a "basement" project like this so...). My dream would be to somehow be able to throw up my Signal Art U48 clone for vocals. I mean... why not? Get the band sounding great on the bleed in that beauty and then just fade in the all the instrument mics (counting drums as in instrument) until the balance sounds good. Hell if frank Sinatra can stand in front of a big band with a u48 and sing. You should be able too. I've used monitors before long as you manage level responsibility and still make the listen to each other should work fine. Tony Benet recorded that way. Two floor wedges on either side if him. Never wore headphones ever. And wanted to track live with the rhythm section every time. Did that his entire career. Have you seen what they've done with the joint? I haven't! Have seen a photo or two. Haven't been back. Maybe someday I'll get invited to the aes convention ha It looks good, but as usual university higher ups fucked the whole thing up. But you didn't hear that from me. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 27, 2023 18:18:18 GMT -6
My only thing is that the plosives are nuts on that mic. I love it otherwise. And in this case, with no headphone monitoring and tracking live as we go... I can see that being a thing. I could be popping like crazy and not even know it. But that mic really agrees with my voice. So it's my plan if I can't pull off an LDC live in the room. You can use a pop filter and/or sing slightly off axis. Funny you mention the 'Glyn Johns' (aka recorder man) technique! Even Mr. Johns doesn't use it anymore. I've seen him scoff at the idea of using it now. He did on the Benmont Tench record. Hell if frank Sinatra can stand in front of a big band with a u48 and sing. You should be able too. I've used monitors before long as you manage level responsibility and still make the listen to each other should work fine. Tony Benet recorded that way. Two floor wedges on either side if him. Never wore headphones ever. And wanted to track live with the rhythm section every time. Did that his entire career. I haven't! Have seen a photo or two. Haven't been back. Maybe someday I'll get invited to the aes convention ha It looks good, but as usual university higher ups fucked the whole thing up. But you didn't hear that from me. haha fair enough! |
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Post by Ward on Jul 27, 2023 18:20:12 GMT -6
He did on the Benmont Tench record SNIP What a weird coinkidink! I listened to that album 2 days ago |
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