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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2023 14:37:46 GMT -6
The thing is, my room is like 20 ft long. From memory, I have a big bloom from like 30-70hz. Then there’s a dip from about 70-100hz. So to get room treatment that would have dealt with that would have required building out like 3-4ft of my back wall (if not more) and filled it with absorption…just not really practical. Also have a dip around 400hz and small peaks and valleys throughout the frequency spectrum. I would have never been able to figure all that out myself.
I also don’t like the whole idea of defying your ears because you know your monitors are this way or that. That would drive me insane. Like - let’s say you have a big dip in your room at 1khz. So when you mix you naturally tend to bring up that area and it translates as being super bright. But you’re supposed to just know that and adjust by mixing dark in that area? Don’t know if I’m explaining what I’m meaning - but I want a mix to sound fantastic in my room and fantastic everywhere else. Not have it sounding weird in my room and betting that it will translate well.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2023 14:44:51 GMT -6
Work around it. Use it to your benefit. So many guys do not want to exploit the flaws of their good monitors that provide translation! Not every monitor is an old Genelec with limited translation from black hole crossover regions or Genelec One or Neumann KH with limited headroom, multiband limiters, and soft clippers! Forward mids? Mix vocals until they’re just audible and it will be great on another system. Scooped mids? Sit em maybe a little different? Presence crossover dip? Make the guitars present and they’ll be audible everywhere 3khz little boost like ATC SL? Clean up the ice picks. Don’t boost 3K into noisy city. Low mid thickness like Dynaudio, Proac, ATC non SL, Quested? Make it normal and it will be normal to lean and mean on other systems. No muddy junk Underwater tweeter like Quested, Focal Alu-mag, KRK Rokit Kevlar? Make it normal, clean up artifacts and it will be normal to good bright on many other systems. Searing top end like Dynaudio, PMC, Focal Beryllium, JBL horns? Clean up that top end! Monitor is a highly limited, low headroom, dsp or way too complex electronic crossover piece of shit like a Neumann or Genelec coax or small JBLs? Well they’re not very reactive so use the need to have more drastic eq moves to your benefit! Don’t cut 2 db! Get a 550 type eq and turn down 500 something hertz all the way! Cut 150-200 hz like crazy! Boost high end until you artifact and then turn it down! Have mega aggressive two bus compressors because you can’t hear the transients anyway so you’re mixing into something that works! In your face sound like Yamaha, small KRKs, or ATC SL? Have depth cues or fx sends and it will be some spacious hifi shit on some laid back hifi rig. I realize this is how it’s been done forever. (Well - actually, most mixing was done in $100k + rooms mostly) But why work that hard when there’s a solution? Or a “better” option. I did that for years - going back and forth from car to truck to this system that system…and I still didn’t feel like I was really nailing it. The Trinnov just allows you to have confidence in what you’re hearing. |
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Post by svart on Jul 26, 2023 14:45:18 GMT -6
Another thing to think about is getting monitors that fit your room. No sense throwing a huge 3 way set in a tiny mix room. No matter how good the speakers are, they’re going to fight the room. I had a big pair of Eve’s for years that sounded super impressive but I couldn’t mix on them to save my life unless they were turned way down. Even then, I wasn’t really getting those drivers going at that volume. Some people might look at the smaller available options as a sacrifice, but if they cause less issues with room interaction, then you’re already ahead of the game. That’s kind of what my ATC’s do for me. Bought a small sub to test out extreme low end when I need it, but it’s just barely on. I also have a mono Auratone that I check levels on as well. Point is, don’t underestimate smaller speakers! I'm going to disagree with you there. There is no such thing as "too big for a room". People will put a couple tiny speakers up on the desk and then put a huge sub in the room too because they don't have enough bass. How is that any different than putting a couple larger speakers on the desk but no sub? It's not. The combined driver area and the overall amount of air moved would be the same. The only situation where it would matter is the size of the face of the speakers and the distance to convergence for the dispersion of each driver in the speaker. And even then, a 3-way speaker like my KH310D's are only about a 14"x 12"x10. About the same face size as some NS10s. Hardly "too big". |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2023 14:47:13 GMT -6
Which version of Trinnov are you using John? It still looks super expensive to me. It’s not cheap. Looks like you could buy a new Nova with the mic for $4200 ish. I see used ST2’s with mics for under $3800 now on reverb. They’re going to support the st2 until at least 2030, so I’m not worried about support really. Also - the sound is no different. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2023 14:48:27 GMT -6
Another thing to think about is getting monitors that fit your room. No sense throwing a huge 3 way set in a tiny mix room. No matter how good the speakers are, they’re going to fight the room. I had a big pair of Eve’s for years that sounded super impressive but I couldn’t mix on them to save my life unless they were turned way down. Even then, I wasn’t really getting those drivers going at that volume. Some people might look at the smaller available options as a sacrifice, but if they cause less issues with room interaction, then you’re already ahead of the game. That’s kind of what my ATC’s do for me. Bought a small sub to test out extreme low end when I need it, but it’s just barely on. I also have a mono Auratone that I check levels on as well. Point is, don’t underestimate smaller speakers! I'm going to disagree with you there. There is no such thing as "too big for a room". People will put a couple tiny speakers up on the desk and then put a huge sub in the room too because they don't have enough bass. How is that any different than putting a couple larger speakers on the desk but no sub? It's not. The combined driver area and the overall amount of air moved would be the same. The only situation where it would matter is the size of the face of the speakers and the distance to convergence for the dispersion of each driver in the speaker. And even then, a 3-way speaker like my KH310D's are only about a 14"x 12"x10. About the same face size as some NS10s. Hardly "too big". Yeah, those Neumanns aren’t huge at all. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2023 15:47:45 GMT -6
Another thing to think about is getting monitors that fit your room. No sense throwing a huge 3 way set in a tiny mix room. No matter how good the speakers are, they’re going to fight the room. I had a big pair of Eve’s for years that sounded super impressive but I couldn’t mix on them to save my life unless they were turned way down. Even then, I wasn’t really getting those drivers going at that volume. Some people might look at the smaller available options as a sacrifice, but if they cause less issues with room interaction, then you’re already ahead of the game. That’s kind of what my ATC’s do for me. Bought a small sub to test out extreme low end when I need it, but it’s just barely on. I also have a mono Auratone that I check levels on as well. Point is, don’t underestimate smaller speakers! I'm going to disagree with you there. There is no such thing as "too big for a room". People will put a couple tiny speakers up on the desk and then put a huge sub in the room too because they don't have enough bass. How is that any different than putting a couple larger speakers on the desk but no sub? It's not. The combined driver area and the overall amount of air moved would be the same. The only situation where it would matter is the size of the face of the speakers and the distance to convergence for the dispersion of each driver in the speaker. And even then, a 3-way speaker like my KH310D's are only about a 14"x 12"x10. About the same face size as some NS10s. Hardly "too big". Plus area of diaphragm has far less influence on output than the motor and amp power. There are 2 ways a speaker can be too big for a room, one of which is really easy to correct. 1. There is no way in hell your going to use my TAD exclusive clones in a 12x13 room as near fields, they are 2 big and even though the horn will help the drivers are just to far apart. 2. I can and have used the 3way Questeds at 2.5 feet, but the problem in a small room is going to be the LF, first most modern actives have an EQ setting for being pushed up against the back wall, second a passive Harrison Labs HPF will roll off the speakers nicely. For 40 years Harrison Labs Filters and pads have made me look like a genius and I’m letting you know the secret sauce. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2023 15:50:28 GMT -6
Work around it. Use it to your benefit. So many guys do not want to exploit the flaws of their good monitors that provide translation! Not every monitor is an old Genelec with limited translation from black hole crossover regions or Genelec One or Neumann KH with limited headroom, multiband limiters, and soft clippers! Forward mids? Mix vocals until they’re just audible and it will be great on another system. Scooped mids? Sit em maybe a little different? Presence crossover dip? Make the guitars present and they’ll be audible everywhere 3khz little boost like ATC SL? Clean up the ice picks. Don’t boost 3K into noisy city. Low mid thickness like Dynaudio, Proac, ATC non SL, Quested? Make it normal and it will be normal to lean and mean on other systems. No muddy junk Underwater tweeter like Quested, Focal Alu-mag, KRK Rokit Kevlar? Make it normal, clean up artifacts and it will be normal to good bright on many other systems. Searing top end like Dynaudio, PMC, Focal Beryllium, JBL horns? Clean up that top end! Monitor is a highly limited, low headroom, dsp or way too complex electronic crossover piece of shit like a Neumann or Genelec coax or small JBLs? Well they’re not very reactive so use the need to have more drastic eq moves to your benefit! Don’t cut 2 db! Get a 550 type eq and turn down 500 something hertz all the way! Cut 150-200 hz like crazy! Boost high end until you artifact and then turn it down! Have mega aggressive two bus compressors because you can’t hear the transients anyway so you’re mixing into something that works! In your face sound like Yamaha, small KRKs, or ATC SL? Have depth cues or fx sends and it will be some spacious hifi shit on some laid back hifi rig. I realize this is how it’s been done forever. (Well - actually, most mixing was done in $100k + rooms mostly) But why work that hard when there’s a solution? Or a “better” option. I did that for years - going back and forth from car to truck to this system that system…and I still didn’t feel like I was really nailing it. The Trinnov just allows you to have confidence in what you’re hearing. Agreed but I still have a couple of little boxes with the speakers from an old CRT Sony TV I use, not as much for EQ but crappy dynamics and distortion of “ it sucks system “. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2023 15:54:39 GMT -6
Which version of Trinnov are you using John? It still looks super expensive to me. It’s not cheap. Looks like you could buy a new Nova with the mic for $4200 ish. I see used ST2’s with mics for under $3800 now on reverb. They’re going to support the st2 until at least 2030, so I’m not worried about support really. Also - the sound is no different. For the $ the Mini DSP without conversion and Dirac is the bargain, plus the Mini DSP mic seams to be the one all the calibration labs are stocking, love my MBHO/ Audix but that stupid little cross spectrum labs calibratied Mini DSP USB is so easy to use. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2023 16:09:16 GMT -6
I just use DSP on the back of the monitors and sometimes IK ARC, it works well enough for me.. I have done REW measurements and of course ARC gives you an output too. I do miss Genelec GLM though, that was pretty awesome and the easy to understand reports gave a world of great information.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2023 16:58:54 GMT -6
Work around it. Use it to your benefit. So many guys do not want to exploit the flaws of their good monitors that provide translation! Not every monitor is an old Genelec with limited translation from black hole crossover regions or Genelec One or Neumann KH with limited headroom, multiband limiters, and soft clippers! Forward mids? Mix vocals until they’re just audible and it will be great on another system. Scooped mids? Sit em maybe a little different? Presence crossover dip? Make the guitars present and they’ll be audible everywhere 3khz little boost like ATC SL? Clean up the ice picks. Don’t boost 3K into noisy city. Low mid thickness like Dynaudio, Proac, ATC non SL, Quested? Make it normal and it will be normal to lean and mean on other systems. No muddy junk Underwater tweeter like Quested, Focal Alu-mag, KRK Rokit Kevlar? Make it normal, clean up artifacts and it will be normal to good bright on many other systems. Searing top end like Dynaudio, PMC, Focal Beryllium, JBL horns? Clean up that top end! Monitor is a highly limited, low headroom, dsp or way too complex electronic crossover piece of shit like a Neumann or Genelec coax or small JBLs? Well they’re not very reactive so use the need to have more drastic eq moves to your benefit! Don’t cut 2 db! Get a 550 type eq and turn down 500 something hertz all the way! Cut 150-200 hz like crazy! Boost high end until you artifact and then turn it down! Have mega aggressive two bus compressors because you can’t hear the transients anyway so you’re mixing into something that works! In your face sound like Yamaha, small KRKs, or ATC SL? Have depth cues or fx sends and it will be some spacious hifi shit on some laid back hifi rig. I realize this is how it’s been done forever. (Well - actually, most mixing was done in $100k + rooms mostly) But why work that hard when there’s a solution? Or a “better” option. I did that for years - going back and forth from car to truck to this system that system…and I still didn’t feel like I was really nailing it. The Trinnov just allows you to have confidence in what you’re hearing. Those old rooms are not flat. They have consoles and you often have to be facing away from the speakers to tweak outboard stuff. Definitely outside of the sweet spot. Large format consoles and huge desks are terrible for acoustics but you pretty much need a console, small mixer, or really well set up desk like a mastering desk with cubbies for outboard for getting it done as it's played unless they have racks of multichannel pres, a small mixer or control surface to use both hands, and a good enough computer to run like at least Massenburg plugs at 88.2 or 96 khz for zero latency or a pro tools aax rig with Sony/sonnox Oxford aax dsp (pretty much costs as much as hardware and is the only aax dsp with less latency than avid with low artifacts). Otherwise you’ll have to eq and compress away from the sweet spot and latency can add up itb with cleaner non-linear plugs like Sound Radix, TDR, and UAD. The more done it is, the less you will have to mess with it mixing, or the more some idiot can and will mess it up down the line.
Outboard compressors and EQs can't easily be tweaky stuff away from the sweet spot. I mean by not tweaky "you can pretty much set them without listening to the audio that closely as you turn the knobs" and they won't eff things up. Of course they might not be doing much or what you need then!
Room compensation schemes run into latency and all the non-linear flaws of your monitors still being there, now maybe with decreased headroom.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2023 17:12:59 GMT -6
Another thing to think about is getting monitors that fit your room. No sense throwing a huge 3 way set in a tiny mix room. No matter how good the speakers are, they’re going to fight the room. I had a big pair of Eve’s for years that sounded super impressive but I couldn’t mix on them to save my life unless they were turned way down. Even then, I wasn’t really getting those drivers going at that volume. Some people might look at the smaller available options as a sacrifice, but if they cause less issues with room interaction, then you’re already ahead of the game. That’s kind of what my ATC’s do for me. Bought a small sub to test out extreme low end when I need it, but it’s just barely on. I also have a mono Auratone that I check levels on as well. Point is, don’t underestimate smaller speakers! I'm going to disagree with you there. There is no such thing as "too big for a room". People will put a couple tiny speakers up on the desk and then put a huge sub in the room too because they don't have enough bass. How is that any different than putting a couple larger speakers on the desk but no sub? It's not. The combined driver area and the overall amount of air moved would be the same. The only situation where it would matter is the size of the face of the speakers and the distance to convergence for the dispersion of each driver in the speaker. And even then, a 3-way speaker like my KH310D's are only about a 14"x 12"x10. About the same face size as some NS10s. Hardly "too big". yes drivers won't blend as close as many two ways and there is an additional crossover. You can even use ATC SCM 50 ASL as very expensive nearfields if you want. The KH310 and other three ways of course can be less clear than many two ways because there is more than can be unclear because of additional crossover regions. A too high crossed over sub or those monitors that cross over integrated subs at like 150-200 hz pretty much always sound effed to me and it's hard to dial in resonances and mud.
I prefer small enough speakers as possible with adequate headroom and bass at the closest possible listening distance. 6" woofer to 1" dome two ways do it for me. 5" feels a little lacking usually or gets too distorted sometimes. If I had a decent mixer again, hopefully not crappy, maybe I'd get something bigger but I still ended up using Fostex 6301 and leaning over when I had to use crap and the Fostex 6301 can be a much more useful speaker than many larger, more extended monitors because no crossover and it has more extension and a better driver than an Auratone or NS10.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2023 17:27:29 GMT -6
I just use DSP on the back of the monitors and sometimes IK ARC, it works well enough for me.. I have done REW measurements and of course ARC gives you an output too. I do miss Genelec GLM though, that was pretty awesome and the easy to understand reports gave a world of great information. It depends on the monitors and DSP, not all room correction software is created equal, some has far less frequencies where it will filter ( I am not allowed to say the name of a manufacturer that includes software with its speakers that won’t let you put an EQ boost at the perfect frequency for a dip their favorite tweeter has so your left with either a little dip or a little peak) of course nobody really details any limitations. Dedicated DSP is almost always lower latency than a computer. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2023 17:38:00 GMT -6
I'm going to disagree with you there. There is no such thing as "too big for a room". People will put a couple tiny speakers up on the desk and then put a huge sub in the room too because they don't have enough bass. How is that any different than putting a couple larger speakers on the desk but no sub? It's not. The combined driver area and the overall amount of air moved would be the same. The only situation where it would matter is the size of the face of the speakers and the distance to convergence for the dispersion of each driver in the speaker. And even then, a 3-way speaker like my KH310D's are only about a 14"x 12"x10. About the same face size as some NS10s. Hardly "too big". yes drivers won't blend as close as many two ways and there is an additional crossover. You can even use ATC SCM 50 ASL as very expensive nearfields if you want. The KH310 and other three ways of course can be less clear than many two ways because there is more than can be unclear because of additional crossover regions. A too high crossed over sub or those monitors that cross over integrated subs at like 150-200 hz pretty much always sound effed to me and it's hard to dial in resonances and mud.
I prefer small enough speakers as possible with adequate headroom and bass at the closest possible listening distance. 6" woofer to 1" dome two ways do it for me. 5" feels a little lacking usually or gets too distorted sometimes. If I had a decent mixer again, hopefully not crappy, maybe I'd get something bigger but I still ended up using Fostex 6301 and leaning over when I had to use crap and the Fostex 6301 can be a much more useful speaker than many larger, more extended monitors because no crossover and it has more extension and a better driver than an Auratone or NS10.
Most have also never taken a look at what is driving those big old Mains! Most of the “bigs have drive racks that look like old school touring rigs except no compression. I actually developed my Soundweb template from an old Augsperger system. 1 input switch matrix HPF - LPF - limiter- meter- 31 band graphic- meter 12 band parametric meter- xover filter each output phase/ delay 4 or 5 band Parametric meter limiter meter. For PA use I add compression in front of all the limiters. |
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 26, 2023 17:40:47 GMT -6
Another thing to think about is getting monitors that fit your room. No sense throwing a huge 3 way set in a tiny mix room. No matter how good the speakers are, they’re going to fight the room. I had a big pair of Eve’s for years that sounded super impressive but I couldn’t mix on them to save my life unless they were turned way down. Even then, I wasn’t really getting those drivers going at that volume. Some people might look at the smaller available options as a sacrifice, but if they cause less issues with room interaction, then you’re already ahead of the game. That’s kind of what my ATC’s do for me. Bought a small sub to test out extreme low end when I need it, but it’s just barely on. I also have a mono Auratone that I check levels on as well. Point is, don’t underestimate smaller speakers! I'm going to disagree with you there. There is no such thing as "too big for a room". People will put a couple tiny speakers up on the desk and then put a huge sub in the room too because they don't have enough bass. How is that any different than putting a couple larger speakers on the desk but no sub? It's not. The combined driver area and the overall amount of air moved would be the same. The only situation where it would matter is the size of the face of the speakers and the distance to convergence for the dispersion of each driver in the speaker. And even then, a 3-way speaker like my KH310D's are only about a 14"x 12"x10. About the same face size as some NS10s. Hardly "too big". Fair enough…maybe the Eve’s just disagreed with my space or my ears. When I tried sonarworks on them, the curve was so extreme, I assumed they just weren’t meant for my space. On the ATC’s it boosted a little lows obviously, cut out some of the muddy stuff and boosted the highs. In the end, it took all the personality out of the speakers. I just enjoy them more without it. I do disagree on the sub thing. The ability to control how much of it I want as well as the crossover point, gives me more control than trying to shove all that info out of say a single 8 inch driver. It may move the same amount of air in the room, but I feel like I have more control over how that air is moving. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2023 17:49:42 GMT -6
yes drivers won't blend as close as many two ways and there is an additional crossover. You can even use ATC SCM 50 ASL as very expensive nearfields if you want. The KH310 and other three ways of course can be less clear than many two ways because there is more than can be unclear because of additional crossover regions. A too high crossed over sub or those monitors that cross over integrated subs at like 150-200 hz pretty much always sound effed to me and it's hard to dial in resonances and mud.
I prefer small enough speakers as possible with adequate headroom and bass at the closest possible listening distance. 6" woofer to 1" dome two ways do it for me. 5" feels a little lacking usually or gets too distorted sometimes. If I had a decent mixer again, hopefully not crappy, maybe I'd get something bigger but I still ended up using Fostex 6301 and leaning over when I had to use crap and the Fostex 6301 can be a much more useful speaker than many larger, more extended monitors because no crossover and it has more extension and a better driver than an Auratone or NS10.
Well, even my oversized three way Core's with 9.5" drivers are in phase & work fine at about 1.2M+. I also don't hear any crossover gaps, they are uber defined, plenty of bass etc. so no real issues. For me, in my room the only difference between a 5" and the Core's is I lack a lot of low end information with a small speaker.
If you want to see how it's thumping in full though there's a trick to it, I call it the swivel chair on wheels. Just roll back and hey presto, the ultimate sweet spot is about 1.5M for the 59's though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2023 18:02:19 GMT -6
It depends on the monitors and DSP, not all room correction software is created equal, some has far less frequencies where it will filter ( I am not allowed to say the name of a manufacturer that includes software with its speakers that won’t let you put an EQ boost at the perfect frequency for a dip their favorite tweeter has so your left with either a little dip or a little peak) of course nobody really details any limitations. Dedicated DSP is almost always lower latency than a computer. It was more about the reports than the software, it detailed all the issues and gave you answers on how to fix them. I think Genelec understands that DSP correction isn't going to fix every problem like room nulls or seriously out of phase speakers. My room / setup is about +-4dB if I remember correctly down to 40Hz, compared to quite a few studio rooms I worked out of and mates band rooms that's urr IME quite impressive. My old room was 22dB out 40 - 70 (with peaks at 1Khz, 5, 7, 12 you get the picture) and there wasn't enough room to move the monitors.. Nice..
Out of everything I believe the biggest improvement in my new room came from front firing woofers, sealed works well too. So, I can pretty much adapt to them without any software correction and they are properly phase aligned. The tell is they almost become holographic in sound (like Coax's) when the sweetspot is right and fortunately they have a large sweetspot too, if I spin the chair round 90 degrees or stand up they sound a bit like trash. I check with ARC but in short it's not really all that hard to tell with them..
The most impressive speakers I've come across in these regards have to be Geithain though, you can move about all over the place and the phantom center / stereo spread just won't collapse.
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Post by Quint on Jul 26, 2023 18:03:46 GMT -6
It’s not cheap. Looks like you could buy a new Nova with the mic for $4200 ish. I see used ST2’s with mics for under $3800 now on reverb. They’re going to support the st2 until at least 2030, so I’m not worried about support really. Also - the sound is no different. For the $ the Mini DSP without conversion and Dirac is the bargain, plus the Mini DSP mic seams to be the one all the calibration labs are stocking, love my MBHO/ Audix but that stupid little cross spectrum labs calibratied Mini DSP USB is so easy to use. The Dirac stuff is what has been catching my eye. I just can't manage to pull the trigger though. |
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Post by RealNoob on Jul 26, 2023 20:44:27 GMT -6
In my experience, having reference tracks, that you know very well (having listened to them on multiple systems) are indispensable. You know what you know, and from that you make discernments. Absolutely! |
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2023 20:47:06 GMT -6
For the $ the Mini DSP without conversion and Dirac is the bargain, plus the Mini DSP mic seams to be the one all the calibration labs are stocking, love my MBHO/ Audix but that stupid little cross spectrum labs calibratied Mini DSP USB is so easy to use. The Dirac stuff is what has been catching my eye. I just can't manage to pull the trigger though. I wish Harman/ Samsung would just buy them and incorporate it into BSS, then offer it for JBL and all the consumer stuff. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Jul 28, 2023 17:44:57 GMT -6
I have very “scooped” monitors. Even with Sonarworks (which I love), they still tend to make things sound too flattering. It’s often tempting to crank the snare or vocal because it’s so gratifying on those speakers, but the second you take a mix out to the real world, it’s ripping your face off.
I realize this is an annoying answer, but for me, it really just boils down to knowing your speakers like the back of your hand. I’ve had my JBL 308s for like 8 years and at this point, I have a pretty good sense of when something is too harsh, too midrangey, etc.
With any set of monitors, I feel like the key is to listen to reference mixes like crazy and A/B until you don’t hate your mix in comparison. Don’t try to copy tones/samples but at least get the EQ balance, stereo width, and dynamics of your mix in the ballpark.
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Post by Ward on Jul 28, 2023 18:04:30 GMT -6
I have very “scooped” monitors. Even with Sonarworks (which I love), they still tend to make things sound too flattering. It’s often tempting to crank the snare or vocal because it’s so gratifying on those speakers, but the second you take a mix out to the real world, it’s ripping your face off. I realize this is an annoying answer, but for me, it really just boils down to knowing your speakers like the back of your hand. I’ve had my JBL 308s for like 8 years and at this point, I have a pretty good sense of when something is too harsh, too midrangey, etc. With any set of monitors, I feel like the key is to listen to reference mixes like crazy and A/B until you don’t hate your mix in comparison. Don’t try to copy tones/samples but at least get the EQ balance, stereo width, and dynamics of your mix in the ballpark. Yes, and when you listen to Ten Sumner's Tales, do you get the distinct impression that Hugh Padgham knew what he was doing in how he mixed it . . . and how you can hear things now that you couldn't 30 years ago, despite limitations we don't have to now accept? I had the pleasure of listen to him talk about mixing that. I can guarantee you. your point about listening like crazy, being sick of your mixes and Bing them constantly is certainly not unique! Lots of GREAT points in this thread! |
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Post by tkaitkai on Jul 28, 2023 19:21:36 GMT -6
I have very “scooped” monitors. Even with Sonarworks (which I love), they still tend to make things sound too flattering. It’s often tempting to crank the snare or vocal because it’s so gratifying on those speakers, but the second you take a mix out to the real world, it’s ripping your face off. I realize this is an annoying answer, but for me, it really just boils down to knowing your speakers like the back of your hand. I’ve had my JBL 308s for like 8 years and at this point, I have a pretty good sense of when something is too harsh, too midrangey, etc. With any set of monitors, I feel like the key is to listen to reference mixes like crazy and A/B until you don’t hate your mix in comparison. Don’t try to copy tones/samples but at least get the EQ balance, stereo width, and dynamics of your mix in the ballpark. Yes, and when you listen to Ten Sumner's Tales, do you get the distinct impression that Hugh Padgham knew what he was doing in how he mixed it . . . and how you can hear things now that you couldn't 30 years ago, despite limitations we don't have to now accept? I had the pleasure of listen to him talk about mixing that. I can guarantee you. your point about listening like crazy, being sick of your mixes and Bing them constantly is certainly not unique! Lots of GREAT points in this thread! Wasn’t too familiar with that record (aside from Shape Of My Heart). Just went back and listened it sounds friggin killer! Snare is snappy as hell. Really good example of “compacting” everything in a way that still feels huge. Oh, and the music’s good too. 😎 |
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