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Post by drumsound on Jul 29, 2023 21:41:15 GMT -6
Oh, yeah Type A on a send can be really useful. Tiny bits of a few things can really change the vibe and 'excitement level' of a mix. What did you most often send to it? In all bands mode, just a tiny bit of wet blend is like a sonic highlighter in a different way than saturation. Yeah, anything that needs 'subtle brightness' if that makes sense. Vocal, maybe acoustic or rhythm guitars, maybe piano. I did a rap record where on a couple songs the beat even had a bit sent to it. I have it (and most returns) sitting at unity and I vary the sends to it. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Jul 31, 2023 4:18:43 GMT -6
Sitting and mixing here and resting my ears scrolling the forum  I am not a huge user of paracomp, but seem to me there is not really a substitute for it when you need that extra body and push. Having two tracks on the table here which sounded good to me, really happy with the outcome. Vocals tracked pretty much ready with compressing well on the way in and feels good to go. But when I hit it with a slight paracomp using 1176 it just adds that boldness and body I have so hard to find elsewhere. I cannot seem to dig it with eq och or normal track compression no matter how many stages I go thru. Especially when the song begins to build up and the vocals begin to blend in a little too well, the paracomp brings them back in focus. For drums it also gives that extra thump which you didn't first know you needed before you had it. So I cannot see why it wouldn't be a valid tool in 2023. BUT it sure has a sound of it's own to it which I can see easily becoming a gimmick when used a lot and can see that someone maybe want's to take their sound in another direction. |
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Post by Ward on Jul 31, 2023 6:59:00 GMT -6
The best and nastiest comment I’ve heard on the topic came from a NAMM seminar/speech/talk/presentation from (oh you’ll know who)
Parallel mixing and blend knobs are for people who don’t know how to use compressors.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2023 7:31:07 GMT -6
The best and nastiest comment I’ve heard on the topic came from a NAMM seminar/speech/talk/presentation from (oh you’ll know who) Parallel mixing and blend knobs are for people who don’t know how to use compressors. Well, so much for making any sort of sense. By definition if you didn't know how to compress then you couldn't parallel compress and even if we read between the lines parallel compression / EQ is far more difficult to master than inline. Not only do certain instruments sound ugly when heavily compressed for a blend (cymbals usually), you're also doubling up on information due to the bus and it's easy to screw up phase etc.. Even an unmatched high pass can balk things on a none linear.
The whole point of parallel is to have one track with ZERO, NO compression and the other smashed (even if we do bend that rule a bit). The amount you need is then dictated by volume but inline you can never have smashed transients AND completely unfettered dynamic range. The comp will always compress to a certain level, that's what it's there for.! |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 31, 2023 9:35:16 GMT -6
Sitting and mixing here and resting my ears scrolling the forum I am not a huge user of paracomp, but seem to me there is not really a substitute for it when you need that extra body and push. Having two tracks on the table here which sounded good to me, really happy with the outcome. Vocals tracked pretty much ready with compressing well on the way in and feels good to go. But when I hit it with a slight paracomp using 1176 it just adds that boldness and body I have so hard to find elsewhere. I cannot seem to dig it with eq och or normal track compression no matter how many stages I go thru. Especially when the song begins to build up and the vocals begin to blend in a little too well, the paracomp brings them back in focus. For drums it also gives that extra thump which you didn't first know you needed before you had it. So I cannot see why it wouldn't be a valid tool in 2023. BUT it sure has a sound of it's own to it which I can see easily becoming a gimmick when used a lot and can see that someone maybe want's to take their sound in another direction. In a similar fashion, I was tracking a VERY dynamic singer this weekend. We spent time and I tried a few different compressors, including a few variations of serial compression. What ended up working best was using the RND 5254, and utilizing the blend knob. Yep, tracking with parallel compression. |
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Post by svart on Jul 31, 2023 9:37:25 GMT -6
The best and nastiest comment I’ve heard on the topic came from a NAMM seminar/speech/talk/presentation from (oh you’ll know who) Parallel mixing and blend knobs are for people who don’t know how to use compressors. What a toxic thing for a pro to say. I dunno who said it, but it's just elitist drivel. All tools are fair game when mixing. Use what works. Any other opinion is someone trying to fluff their ego. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2023 11:20:05 GMT -6
The best and nastiest comment I’ve heard on the topic came from a NAMM seminar/speech/talk/presentation from (oh you’ll know who) Parallel mixing and blend knobs are for people who don’t know how to use compressors. What a toxic thing for a pro to say. I dunno who said it, but it's just elitist drivel. All tools are fair game when mixing. Use what works. Any other opinion is someone trying to fluff their ego. He’s right for anything not a special effect, which is almost zero popular compressors not an 1176 all buttons in or Distressor Nuke. I can think of precisely one. Most people don’t know how to use a two knob leveling amp, yet alone a modernish compressor with just enough control to make it modulate the volume as you wish. Parallel compression for modern multi-detector with one vca compressors that modulate the signal with less artifacts than anything, ie the best ones? No fuckin point. |
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Post by svart on Jul 31, 2023 11:36:04 GMT -6
What a toxic thing for a pro to say. I dunno who said it, but it's just elitist drivel. All tools are fair game when mixing. Use what works. Any other opinion is someone trying to fluff their ego. He’s right for anything not a special effect, which is almost zero popular compressors not an 1176 all buttons in or Distressor Nuke. I can think of precisely one. Most people don’t know how to use a two knob leveling amp, yet alone a modernish compressor with just enough control to make it modulate the volume as you wish. Parallel compression for modern multi-detector with one vca compressors that modulate the signal with less artifacts than anything, ie the best ones? No fuckin point. First person to use a ratcheting wrench: "Check this out, it makes life easier and I work faster!" Dude who still uses a crescent wrench on everything: "That's just a gimmick, you kids just don't want to learn how to use a crescent wrench!" |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2023 12:39:55 GMT -6
He’s right for anything not a special effect, which is almost zero popular compressors not an 1176 all buttons in or Distressor Nuke. I can think of precisely one. Most people don’t know how to use a two knob leveling amp, yet alone a modernish compressor with just enough control to make it modulate the volume as you wish. Parallel compression for modern multi-detector with one vca compressors that modulate the signal with less artifacts than anything, ie the best ones? No fuckin point. First person to use a ratcheting wrench: "Check this out, it makes life easier and I work faster!" Dude who still uses a crescent wrench on everything: "That's just a gimmick, you kids just don't want to learn how to use a crescent wrench!" It is a gimmick that requires major workarounds to use without too many audible issues as @soriantis pointed out here and Mike Caffrey did years ago in his tapeop article. Multi-detector compressors, better detectors, and better, more program dependent smoothing filters eliminate the artifacts of heavy gain reduction to even and raise the volume while controlling the transients that parallel compression was supposed to minimize yet caused artifacts on its own. Some people are just still stuck in the 60s or more accurately using an ersatz of the 60s. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 31, 2023 12:59:11 GMT -6
The best and nastiest comment I’ve heard on the topic came from a NAMM seminar/speech/talk/presentation from (oh you’ll know who) Parallel mixing and blend knobs are for people who don’t know how to use compressors. .... and standard compressors are for people who don't fully understand parallel compression Seriously though, imho there's way more to parallel compression than a "mix knob" on an 1176 emulation! (I hate mix knobs anyway - always use two mixer channels then you can actually do something interesting with the compressed parallel) I can highly recommend Bob Katz book "Mastering Audio" turn to page 134 and read his approach to parallel compression (a very clever AE) he uses it for usual tonalization and attitude processing but also his use of transparent parallel compression to raise the delicate low level detail in acoustic programme material in a very cool and very interesting approach. I personally find parallel compression to be an extremely useful tool - well worth mastering the techniques - as opposed to reaching for an emulation "mix knob"! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2023 15:54:11 GMT -6
First person to use a ratcheting wrench: "Check this out, it makes life easier and I work faster!" Dude who still uses a crescent wrench on everything: "That's just a gimmick, you kids just don't want to learn how to use a crescent wrench!" It is a gimmick that requires major workarounds to use without too many audible issues as @soriantis pointed out here and Mike Caffrey did years ago in his tapeop article. Multi-detector compressors, better detectors, and better, more program dependent smoothing filters eliminate the artifacts of heavy gain reduction to even and raise the volume while controlling the transients that parallel compression was supposed to minimize yet caused artifacts on its own. Some people are just still stuck in the 60s or more accurately using an ersatz of the 60s. It's not gimmick it just has a lot of downsides. If someone can't figure out the positives and downsides of parallel mixing then you should hang up your coat and find a new career because this sort of stuff is audio engineering 101 which you learn on any audio course in the first syllaubus. In metal it's almost compulsory.. Sorry to be blunt here but I expect engineers who ask money for this stuff to be experts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2023 16:38:40 GMT -6
To double post and to contrast my quite forward statement, I DO listen to a lot of people on these forums. For over 20 years I've done a bit of post, ran a studio, became an EE, worked in DSP, FPGA, converter design and programmed a metric ton etc. but in the grand scheme whilst listening to Bob Ohlsen, svart , Johnkenn drbill , ericn and even ragan it sometimes makes me realise that in some area's I know shit all. Fortunately I comprehend the fundamentals but I never assume anything. If you ever take it any other way then then apologies, end of the day one of the reasons I even come here is to end up better when I leave than before I came and that does happen often which is amazing. My point is never assume anything, there's too much experience and too many sides of a story just to ignore. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 31, 2023 18:27:14 GMT -6
To double post and to contrast my quite forward statement, I DO listen to a lot of people on these forums. For over 20 years I've done a bit of post, ran a studio, became an EE, worked in DSP, FPGA, converter design and programmed a metric ton etc. but in the grand scheme whilst listening to Bob Ohlsen, svart , Johnkenn drbill , ericn and even ragan it sometimes makes me realise that in some area's I know shit all. Fortunately I comprehend the fundamentals but I never assume anything. If you ever take it any other way then then apologies, end of the day one of the reasons I even come here is to end up better when I leave than before I came and that does happen often which is amazing. My point is never assume anything, there's too much experience and too many sides of a story just to ignore. Danny I think one of the biggest things that effected how we interact overall is some of the zoom calls. What might come across as either being a bit harsh or arrogant is usually tempered with sarcasm or humor that comes through in a more personal interaction. Svart and I clashed a bit till we were in the same room drinking beers. We all can come across as arrogant jackasses especially in print where you don’t have the same nonverbal clues. I definitely included myself in that😁. We have a very interesting mix of talent and skills here, I have probably learned something from each long term poster and many of the newbies even if I don’t acknowledge it ( thanks for tagging me on this one for reminding me I don’t say it enough). We do have to except the fact that as AE’s we live in an interesting corner of the world; in the artistic side of things there are very few absolutes and in the technical part we have those pesky laws of physics that always get in the way. |
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Post by notneeson on Jul 31, 2023 19:41:30 GMT -6
A guy who has worked with some name acts dogged one of my mixes about 15 years ago. It stuck with me and made me try harder.
But also, that same guy once asked my friend (apropos of nothing) if Peter Katis has dogged his tracks. (He hadn’t).
That kinda of negativity sticks to you. Makes you insecure.
Even when you’re pretty great at what you do.
I’ve met some accomplished people and they tend to be really supportive and also they tend to really go for it. If you’re afraid of what other engineers are going to say, you’re not going to try hard enough.
The term growth mindset is cheesy and all, but it beats the alternative.
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Post by ragan on Jul 31, 2023 22:54:15 GMT -6
To double post and to contrast my quite forward statement, I DO listen to a lot of people on these forums. For over 20 years I've done a bit of post, ran a studio, became an EE, worked in DSP, FPGA, converter design and programmed a metric ton etc. but in the grand scheme whilst listening to Bob Ohlsen, svart , Johnkenn drbill , ericn and even ragan it sometimes makes me realise that in some area's I know shit all. Fortunately I comprehend the fundamentals but I never assume anything. If you ever take it any other way then then apologies, end of the day one of the reasons I even come here is to end up better when I leave than before I came and that does happen often which is amazing. My point is never assume anything, there's too much experience and too many sides of a story just to ignore. "...and even Ragan" lol |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 1, 2023 6:58:24 GMT -6
Guess, he is finally learning !  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2023 7:04:33 GMT -6
HAHA , I meant in jest of course you legend. |
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Post by vvvooojjj on Aug 1, 2023 7:40:13 GMT -6
Parallel buses are great when you want to easily change the sound of different sections.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2023 8:43:21 GMT -6
What might come across as either being a bit harsh or arrogant is usually tempered with sarcasm or humor that comes through in a more personal interaction. Svart and I clashed a bit till we were in the same room drinking beers. Oh definitely, text is never the best communication medium. The amount of times at work someone's taken an email the wrong way when an engineer for example has been busy and decided not to sugar coat something. However I prefer blunt as opposed to writing an essay every time someone sends a message partly describing the nuance of why they came to their conclusion, all this just not to get on the wrong side of someone.
I just have to assume to some extent that people know I always mean well, there's never any malice. Life's too short for that shit..
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Post by Ward on Aug 1, 2023 8:55:28 GMT -6
What might come across as either being a bit harsh or arrogant is usually tempered with sarcasm or humor that comes through in a more personal interaction. Svart and I clashed a bit till we were in the same room drinking beers. We all can come across as arrogant jackasses especially . . . The frequent phone-calls texts or zooms I have with Eric, Todd, Chad, Chris C, Chris F, all the other Chris's, John, Darren, Martin, Bill, Eric, Dave even Peter, have established a wonderful communication foundation to work from. Overall, we're all extremely similar and helpful to each other. The kindness between us is absolutely AMAZING! This is what church is supposed to be like but rarely is. So on that note, God (in whatever form you know) bless you all. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 1, 2023 12:57:37 GMT -6
Gee and here I thought "Parallel Mixing", was like "Irish Yoga" (if you ever saw the infamous Poster) Especially on St. Paddy's and after hitting all the Parallel Bars". * Chris *That's when the Parallel Bus is safest. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 1, 2023 13:00:57 GMT -6
To double post and to contrast my quite forward statement, I DO listen to a lot of people on these forums. For over 20 years I've done a bit of post, ran a studio, became an EE, worked in DSP, FPGA, converter design and programmed a metric ton etc. but in the grand scheme whilst listening to Bob Ohlsen, svart , Johnkenn drbill , ericn and even ragan it sometimes makes me realise that in some area's I know shit all. Fortunately I comprehend the fundamentals but I never assume anything. If you ever take it any other way then then apologies, end of the day one of the reasons I even come here is to end up better when I leave than before I came and that does happen often which is amazing. My point is never assume anything, there's too much experience and too many sides of a story just to ignore. Well you'll always have me. To be "even lower"  on the Skill Set". LOL! Chris |
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Post by Ward on Aug 1, 2023 18:21:09 GMT -6
Gee and here I thought "Parallel Mixing", was like "Irish Yoga" (if you ever saw the infamous Poster) Especially on St. Paddy's and after hitting all the Parallel Bars". * Chris *That's when the Parallel Bus is safest. The wheels on the parallel bus go up and down, up and down, up and down . . . |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 1, 2023 21:28:59 GMT -6
One of my fave Irish sayings... "Don't let the truth". "Get in the way of a good story". Which reminds me... Chris |
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Post by itzprime on Aug 2, 2023 3:12:07 GMT -6
The best and nastiest comment I’ve heard on the topic came from a NAMM seminar/speech/talk/presentation from (oh you’ll know who) Parallel mixing and blend knobs are for people who don’t know how to use compressors. Given that normally one usually wants to do more than just have a basic compressor on the parallel bus (where you could just use a wet/dry otherwise), the comment from this NAMM speaker seems terrible. What a toxic thing for a pro to say. I dunno who said it, but it's just elitist drivel. All tools are fair game when mixing. Use what works. Any other opinion is someone trying to fluff their ego. He’s right for anything not a special effect, which is almost zero popular compressors not an 1176 all buttons in or Distressor Nuke. I can think of precisely one. Most people don’t know how to use a two knob leveling amp, yet alone a modernish compressor with just enough control to make it modulate the volume as you wish. Parallel compression for modern multi-detector with one vca compressors that modulate the signal with less artifacts than anything, ie the best ones? No fuckin point. How do you do parallel compression that has additional distortion and a different EQ on the bus? It doesn't have to be a special effect to add a different sonic tone to the song. Gets even worse when you want to automate it, or parts of it. Usually my mix bus or drum bus is full of automation anyway. Automating even more of the parrallel compression/saturation would be terrible chaotic. |
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on the Skill Set".
