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Post by johneppstein on Jul 14, 2023 10:25:15 GMT -6
I will second the ATM25, good for rock but rather natural. I really love the M88 for a nice natural kick that you can sculpt. Telefunken M82 and AKG D12vr are also nice and have some cool eq presets. D6 for me is too much of a one trick pony. I also use the SM7 a lot for kind of of woody mid focused sound, sounds great for indie, folk stuff. M88s are great mics but they can be fragile. I've head of them suffering diaphragm damage from a too energetic drummer. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 14, 2023 10:35:54 GMT -6
(When you already have dynamics for backup).. Every once in a while a place would bring out 414 for inner kick. That was fun, ..big stage though. Now the 214 exists maybe it’s something to consider? And there’s all the boutique brands now who have nice solid state mics. Just brainstorming Mounted permanently inside the drum? I don't think so. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Jul 14, 2023 14:30:55 GMT -6
I will second the ATM25, good for rock but rather natural. I really love the M88 for a nice natural kick that you can sculpt. Telefunken M82 and AKG D12vr are also nice and have some cool eq presets. D6 for me is too much of a one trick pony. I also use the SM7 a lot for kind of of woody mid focused sound, sounds great for indie, folk stuff. M88s are great mics but they can be fragile. I've head of them suffering diaphragm damage from a too energetic drummer. I always use mine with a wind screen. It's been in hundreds of kicks and never had an issue, even with some very loud drummers. Maybe I've been lucky. I was told a long time ago to never use it inside the kick without the windscreen. |
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Post by phdamage on Jul 15, 2023 6:51:48 GMT -6
Though not a dynamic, its hard to beat a Beta91A, IMO, as a general purpose, easy kick in mic. No stand needed, it usually sounds good just popping it in on the floor of the drum (or pillows), and its EQ curve gets you part of the way there without going too far and boxing you into something. A session guy around my parts has one permanently suspended in his kick, with an XLR connection built into the shell. I sold mine a long time ago. I still have my beyer D71C but I never use it. These have this plastic-y quality to the top end I can never get on with. It was hard to notch it out without sacrificing attack. Seems counter intuitive since I mostly record punk and metal bands and definitely want a lot of snap, but I just hated how they sounded |
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Post by bricejchandler on Jul 15, 2023 11:06:48 GMT -6
Though not a dynamic, its hard to beat a Beta91A, IMO, as a general purpose, easy kick in mic. No stand needed, it usually sounds good just popping it in on the floor of the drum (or pillows), and its EQ curve gets you part of the way there without going too far and boxing you into something. A session guy around my parts has one permanently suspended in his kick, with an XLR connection built into the shell. I sold mine a long time ago. I still have my beyer D71C but I never use it. These have this plastic-y quality to the top end I can never get on with. It was hard to notch it out without sacrificing attack. Seems counter intuitive since I mostly record punk and metal bands and definitely want a lot of snap, but I just hated how they sounded Same here, I’ve never had much luck with these kinds of mics. It always sounds too plasticky to me. These days if I absolutely need that crazy high end that some modern metal needs, I’ll usually make a sample of the kick, add a crazy amount of high end and then hipass the sample. I’ll usually add a little distortion on top to make it gel better with the live kick. |
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Post by ab101 on Jul 15, 2023 11:41:07 GMT -6
Can I say something from a live performer's perspective?
Whatever you do with the kick drum, it is a great idea to make sure it is clearly heard in the monitors, tightly.
It is often the "1" of the beat and really helps in playing tightly.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 16, 2023 8:51:45 GMT -6
Though not a dynamic, its hard to beat a Beta91A, IMO, as a general purpose, easy kick in mic. No stand needed, it usually sounds good just popping it in on the floor of the drum (or pillows), and its EQ curve gets you part of the way there without going too far and boxing you into something. A session guy around my parts has one permanently suspended in his kick, with an XLR connection built into the shell. If you want an accurate sound, it's easy to beat. I generally HATE "kick mics" with the EQ rolled in because I almost invariably hate the taste of the idiot who chose the tuning. And I don't like the Beta series in generral. |
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Post by smashlord on Jul 16, 2023 20:14:14 GMT -6
Though not a dynamic, its hard to beat a Beta91A, IMO, as a general purpose, easy kick in mic. No stand needed, it usually sounds good just popping it in on the floor of the drum (or pillows), and its EQ curve gets you part of the way there without going too far and boxing you into something. A session guy around my parts has one permanently suspended in his kick, with an XLR connection built into the shell. If you want an accurate sound, it's easy to beat. I generally HATE "kick mics" with the EQ rolled in because I almost invariably hate the taste of the idiot who chose the tuning. And I don't like the Beta series in generral. Sure, I guess, but how often do "accurate" sounds sit in a busy mix? Also, OP is talking about live sound... I assume time is of the essence even more so than in a studio environment. In a world where sometimes the venue sticks you with a measly line check, a mic that you can just toss in, not really worrying about a stand or positioning, and already has some of curve to help it cut through guitars, bass, keys or what not, doesn't sound too bad to me. No one with ear plugs in is hearing the minutiae of the kick... it just needs boom and click. You can also turn off the EQ notch on the Beta 91A, too. In the studio... thats different. I think I use a different kick mic every session, depending on drum, tuning, part, genre, etc.. etc... but live, simple and easy can be good when you got 5 guys yelling at you for this and that and you're trying to scroll through the 5 sub menus in the Midas just to turn up the kick send. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 18, 2023 8:42:52 GMT -6
If you want an accurate sound, it's easy to beat. I generally HATE "kick mics" with the EQ rolled in because I almost invariably hate the taste of the idiot who chose the tuning. And I don't like the Beta series in generral. Sure, I guess, but how often do "accurate" sounds sit in a busy mix? Also, OP is talking about live sound... I assume time is of the essence even more so than in a studio environment. In a world where sometimes the venue sticks you with a measly line check, a mic that you can just toss in, not really worrying about a stand or positioning, and already has some of curve to help it cut through guitars, bass, keys or what not, doesn't sound too bad to me. No one with ear plugs in is hearing the minutiae of the kick... it just needs boom and click. You can also turn off the EQ notch on the Beta 91A, too. In the studio... thats different. I think I use a different kick mic every session, depending on drum, tuning, part, genre, etc.. etc... but live, simple and easy can be good when you got 5 guys yelling at you for this and that and you're trying to scroll through the 5 sub menus in the Midas just to turn up the kick send. I DO NOT WANT people who have never heard what I'm recording making non-reversible EQ decisions baked into the microphones. Yes, EQ might, and often is, neccessary. But when it is I want to do it myself based on the music, not have some lab dweeb who I've never met making decisions for me based on nothing more than his lack of taste.
And I HATE clicky kicks! It is my opinion that the whole "click" thing was developed when metal bands were usually doing clubs that miced the kick with a 57 and needed to make it carry. And I'm talking about bands who would eventually make it really big. Unfortunately they never updated their drum EQ.
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Post by mcirish on Jul 18, 2023 11:13:31 GMT -6
John,
I sort of agree with you in that I too (now) prefer a less pre-EQ'd kick mic. For years I was using a Beta 52A as the inside kick mic. The last couple major projects, I switched out to an ATM25. It's sort of similar (to my ears) to an RE20 that I used to used a couple decades ago.
BUT... I had a session a couple days ago and the drummer was all about double kicks. I used the ATM25 but afterwards, I had to add so much click that I might as well have used the Beta 52A. It all depends on the genre. If the kick is super busy, a pre-EQ'd mic will cut down on the amount of 3-5K I need to add. Thus, speeding up the process.
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