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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 29, 2023 23:13:38 GMT -6
I do both. If I’m in my home studio, I know the gear well enough that most times I’ll use compression on the way in. If I’m freelancing in an outside room I’ll mult the vocal and run one track dry and another through whatever fancy tube compressor I have at my disposal (Retro 176, Drip Fairchild etc). In either situation I’ll end up compressing again during the mix, and mostly with HW. My main goal is to track sounds as close to how I want them to sound in the mix as possible…without going overboard. It’s taken a lot of experience to get it right, compressing on the way in while still giving your self room on the mix to change things as needed. And I’ve screwed myself a few times, but that’s why I mult the vocal, so I have a clean backup. I should also note that sometimes the gear my cause technical problems you don’t hear until later. Like distortion or clipping or some weird momentary RFI that fucks up one word of the perfect take etc etc. I’d love to pretend that i have golden ears but truth is, when I’m 6 hours into tracking, and there are people talking in the control room, and someone is taking lunch orders, and I’m evaluating 16 tracks of audio for a million details…yeah, I miss stuff…all the time. I am human. As I’ve gotten better the “mistakes” have gotten better too, as in the mistakes are more musical and less noticeable than before if that makes sense. Great post. I’m 100% gonna mult a clean vocal from here on out. Never even crossed my mind before, but why not. |
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Post by christophert on Jun 30, 2023 0:38:10 GMT -6
I'll only ever mildly compress if the sound of the compression is close to 100% invisible. BG2's are excellent for this. Vocal dynamics are a great thing to keep alive until the final mix. I have a BG2, and find it to be the opposite of invisible. My go-to vocal/bass compressor. Invisible as far as you can't tell it is compressing. It has a sound. |
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Post by vvvooojjj on Jun 30, 2023 2:59:55 GMT -6
Almost always. Lately been tracking with LA3 to massage the signal a bit and come mix time use an 1176 to find the right pocket.
I do have a Bluey but had same kind of problems occasionally as Tbone81 mentioned.
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Post by theshea on Jun 30, 2023 3:17:45 GMT -6
always compress on the way in. i want to hear a more mix ready sound right from the start. but i only do it mildly. 3-5 db of GR with my stam adg on the pepper setting or the needle just slightly moving on my LA610 optical compressor. never had the impression afterwards to have it overdone. i like its lighlty deminished dynamics and the added sound factor.
and lets be honest: all those „keep the dynamics natural/don‘t overcompress/classic old school sound“ is all blabla - they DID compress A LOT back than in multiple stages and in todays music you don‘t stand a chance with those transient rich songs … you HAVE to compress a lot to deliver a pro song!
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Post by stevenlmorgan on Jun 30, 2023 6:16:36 GMT -6
I strongly prefer not using compression (or eq) when tracking.
My post-recording control over compression is far greater since I know exactly what was recorded and, at least for those I record, it seems to really help to hear precisely what they are singing.
BTW, I am loving the UnFairchild on vocals, Time constant 6.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 30, 2023 6:55:07 GMT -6
Studio tracking, always. Live gig tracking, never. Studio, once it’s in the box I’m not repeatedly getting it back out for a zillion revisions. I can do some for sure, never all. Here the Foote Control Systems and Langevin ELOP are both clean sonic enhancers, do no damage and are more pleasing than fully ITB processing.
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Post by srb on Jun 30, 2023 6:59:06 GMT -6
I've yet to mess up a vocal going in with the Crane Song Falcon. Just looking to control peaks a bit. I know I keep going on about it, but it's a fine piece of kit.
I'm in the "use a lot of compressors, but not a lot of compression" camp.
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Post by ml on Jun 30, 2023 7:56:23 GMT -6
Every time I do a back to back comparison the compressed one always sounds better to me even with a little bit of reduction. But I’m not a pro engineer so maybe it sounds worse to someone with better skills, knowledge, ears and speakers haha.
I guess the question is for you mix engineers, would you prefer an uncompressed vocal?
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Post by mcirish on Jun 30, 2023 8:52:50 GMT -6
I've gone the reverse way John. For years, I tracked without any compression on the way in. Then, I got an 1176 and a LA2A. I don't hit them hard, but they sure do make mixing easier. The hardware has something the software doesn't have. I still further compress ITB, but right now, I'm tracking through either the 1176 or the LA2A. Typically I might hit 5-6dB gain reduction on louder parts. Also, I have started riding the gain feeding the compressors on the way in. I've been working with a lot of really dynamic vocalists. Gain riding and a bit of compression gets me closer to the results I want, a lot faster.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2023 9:19:29 GMT -6
Think I’m gonna get another AS 76F
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Post by Ward on Jun 30, 2023 9:27:28 GMT -6
Think I’m gonna get another AS 76F One of these days, you'll try (I won't call it mine, but I'm a strong proponent of it) 'our' method of mic- complementary preamp - opto/LA2a/CL1b/Mu - 1176 just getting 2-3 db compression and peak control ... and you'll be happy. For a week. |
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Post by theshea on Jun 30, 2023 9:40:11 GMT -6
compressing on the way in makes my mixing life so much easier. i lately had a song to mix, not recorded by myself, and first thing i did was to put a lo-cut filter, a compressor and a tape plug (suited the track) on every track and did generally about 3-5 db of GR and bounced in places all the tracks. without overthinking, just some quick mid/slow attack and fast/mid relase 2:1 or 4:1 ratio (depending on the track). die not take long.
than i did a quick fader balancing raw mix and it sounded good. was 75% „there“.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2023 9:51:13 GMT -6
Think I’m gonna get another AS 76F One of these days, you'll try (I won't call it mine, but I'm a strong proponent of it) 'our' method of mic- complementary preamp - opto/LA2a/CL1b/Mu - 1176 just getting 2-3 db compression and peak control ... and you'll be happy. For a week. You talking about tracking? Ive tried that before. Always either feels like overkill to me or too easy to overdo it. |
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Post by plinker on Jun 30, 2023 9:58:48 GMT -6
Think I’m gonna get another AS 76F One of these days, you'll try (I won't call it mine, but I'm a strong proponent of it) 'our' method of mic- complementary preamp - opto/LA2a/CL1b/Mu - 1176 just getting 2-3 db compression and peak control ... and you'll be happy. For a week. Ward -- are you doing the opto/LA2a/CL1b/Mu (options) in front of the 1176? If so, what ratio are you typically using on the 1176? |
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Post by phantom on Jun 30, 2023 9:58:56 GMT -6
I love tracking vox with compression. Light compression, so I dont screw the take with it.
But I actually think that 80% of the time, the performance is better with compression, because the singer can push a bit more and care a bit less about volume. I think it brings energy.
I also love the box tone of my 1176, or my LA2A or the CL1B. I would normally just choose one of them and give a few dbs of compression on the way in.
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Post by phantom on Jun 30, 2023 10:08:41 GMT -6
That said, after posting this I went to listen to the new Olivia Rodrigo single, just to see what the mainstream was cooking.
And I got very bothered by the vocal sound, specially how over compressed it was. Very distracting, specially on the solo parts. Very overdone to my ears.
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Post by ragan on Jun 30, 2023 10:11:28 GMT -6
I’m gonna try printing with compression again. My go to is the 3A circuit in the Stam SA-23A+, and it would be hard to mess anything up with that. I used to really prefer singing into a compressor too, but got used to doing without it. Maybe I’ll still dig singing into the comp.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 10:22:54 GMT -6
Bruce Swedien apparently preferred no or very little compression.
I have almost always tracked vocals with a limiter (1176). Never had any issues or regrets. Usually compress or limit once or twice more in the mix. Channel comps and vocal buss comp.
Check the loudest part of the song (chorus) and make sure you're not digging too deep into gain reduction and no problems.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2023 11:17:44 GMT -6
I love tracking vox with compression. Light compression, so I dont screw the take with it. But I actually think that 80% of the time, the performance is better with compression, because the singer can push a bit more and care a bit less about volume. I think it brings energy. I also love the box tone of my 1176, or my LA2A or the CL1B. I would normally just choose one of them and give a few dbs of compression on the way in. I’ve been of this mindset too…but reading this just made me wonder if a singer is going to naturally use better mic technique without a comp leveling everything off. I’m not sure anyone actually bothers with mic technique anymore…but indid find myself coming closer for softer passages and backing on big notes. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2023 11:18:47 GMT -6
That said, after posting this I went to listen to the new Olivia Rodrigo single, just to see what the mainstream was cooking. And I got very bothered by the vocal sound, specially how over compressed it was. Very distracting, specially on the solo parts. Very overdone to my ears. For real - the country vocals lately have been so compressed they’re whooshing. Can’t stand it. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 30, 2023 11:20:20 GMT -6
I'm trying to think of a reason I wouldn't compress tracking my vocals with my Retro STA Level.
.... no wait, I've thought of a reason, I can save on power and tube wear and tear :-)
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Post by Ward on Jun 30, 2023 11:23:59 GMT -6
One of these days, you'll try (I won't call it mine, but I'm a strong proponent of it) 'our' method of mic- complementary preamp - opto/LA2a/CL1b/Mu - 1176 just getting 2-3 db compression and peak control ... and you'll be happy. For a week. Ward -- are you doing the opto/LA2a/CL1b/Mu (options) in front of the 1176? If so, what ratio are you typically using on the 1176? Correct. Mic into preamp, pad if needed, nominal output going into a Mu or Optical varies as the units vary. But normally about -6db rms average peaks might rise to -3. Setting input and output to achieve 1-2 db of GR. That out is also about -6 dbU rms average. input the 76, 9-10 o'clock (36), output about 2PM (15) attacks at 3, release at about 5-7 12:1. That's it. Nothing chompy! |
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Post by phantom on Jun 30, 2023 11:49:22 GMT -6
I love tracking vox with compression. Light compression, so I dont screw the take with it. But I actually think that 80% of the time, the performance is better with compression, because the singer can push a bit more and care a bit less about volume. I think it brings energy. I also love the box tone of my 1176, or my LA2A or the CL1B. I would normally just choose one of them and give a few dbs of compression on the way in. I’ve been of this mindset too…but reading this just made me wonder if a singer is going to naturally use better mic technique without a comp leveling everything off. I’m not sure anyone actually bothers with mic technique anymore…but indid find myself coming closer for softer passages and backing on big notes. I'm not sure either. But I feel that the kind of level control we need for modern productions are very hard to achieve with mic techniques. So I like to help the singers, so they can pay less attention on that and focus on the energy, the sentiment, passion and everything else that I can't help with any device. But of course, if I'm tracking a wonderful jazz or more classical singer, and the song is less busy, I wouldn't compress anything. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2023 11:57:47 GMT -6
I'm trying to think of a reason I wouldn't compress tracking my vocals with my Retro STA Level. .... no wait, I've thought of a reason, I can save on power and tube wear and tear :-) And about $2400 |
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Post by longscale on Jun 30, 2023 12:17:17 GMT -6
I always compress on the way in for vocals. Unless I have to move fast and don't have time to do a run through or two where I can get things setup without fear of crushing things if the singer hammers it on the recording runs. For my own vocals I have a fairly easy goto setting that I can reach for very quickly. I like to commit to a sound up front. I do screw up - and crush things sometimes. But I consider that part of the game. I try tricks on my skateboard - and fall too. Ok I used to do that, like 40 years ago. heh. My point is I like going for it.
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