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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 7:47:30 GMT -6
Sounds fantastic to me. I can't hear any discernible differences at this stage. Well that was all the Burl…I just added the harms for fun. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 7:54:08 GMT -6
Dang John, the acoustic guitars sounds great on that track. It jumped right out at me, just perfect sounding. That is just in front of my computer into my Gibson straight into the Heider H2. I think I notched out two resonant ringing spots, but that was it on the eq. I tuned the main vocal, but I’ve figured out to leave harmonies alone. (I fixed a couple of spots)…everything just sounds waaaay too perfect when you tune harms too. |
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Post by ragan on Jun 28, 2023 8:36:58 GMT -6
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 28, 2023 8:42:24 GMT -6
It’s really hard to tell what’s what in that mashup, though. Yeah that was my point from the start.... If you have the disposable income or some business reason for having the burl... sure.. keep it... But, there are other places that equity could be of use....especially if you have a mortgage cheers Wiz LOL .... is that my guilt whispering in my ear or you Wiz :-) I often considering selling most of my rig and paying down a significant chunk of my mortgage then my wife reminds me "life is a journey not a destination" I want to enjoy my journey and she always reminds me a BIG part of that is the enormous pleasure my rig gives me. If I do something sensible NOW (at 60 years old) then there's a danger I will feel like I should of done something VERY sensible with my life and not been a professional musician for 42 years. If I start by selling my HEDD 192 A/D/A is just might snowball into a full blown "old man rear view mirror crisis"  |
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Post by matt on Jun 28, 2023 8:59:04 GMT -6
To add to the conversation, my entire hybrid rig is based around three, soon to be four, Tascam ML-32D converters. Yes, Tascam. Every element of every mix makes multiple passes through the Tascams via a small Dante network, with a round-trip latency of 3.05 milliseconds in Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.6. It's absolutely stable and sounds good to my ears. Monitoring is easy and seamless using DADman on my DAD Core256 hub. And no one listening has ever commented on any quality difference between my current work and that of several years ago when I was on Burl/Apogee Symphony. In fact, I am a better mixer now and that makes ALL the difference. My friends have noticed too: "hey man, your recent mixes are radio quality" is a recent comment. It is gratifying to hear those words- the fine art of mixing is a lot harder than I thought it would be 10 years ago when I started!
While I am a relentless gear tester too, I say: go with what makes you want to create, regardless of the name on the front of the box/microphone/amp/headstock etc. That's what I tell myself every day. Now, if only I'd listen . . .
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 9:46:03 GMT -6
Soyuz 013 Oh - and meant to say I have a UAD 33609 and conservativelyput it in Studio A in Seventh Heaven. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 9:53:13 GMT -6
To add to the conversation, my entire hybrid rig is based around three, soon to be four, Tascam ML-32D converters. Yes, Tascam. Every element of every mix makes multiple passes through the Tascams via a small Dante network, with a round-trip latency of 3.05 milliseconds in Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.6. It's absolutely stable and sounds good to my ears. Monitoring is easy and seamless using DADman on my DAD Core256 hub. And no one listening has ever commented on any quality difference between my current work and that of several years ago when I was on Burl/Apogee Symphony. In fact, I am a better mixer now and that makes ALL the difference. My friends have noticed too: "hey man, your recent mixes are radio quality" is a recent comment. It is gratifying to hear those words- the fine art of mixing is a lot harder than I thought it would be 10 years ago when I started! While I am a relentless gear tester too, I say: go with what makes you want to create, regardless of the name on the front of the box/microphone/amp/headstock etc. That's what I tell myself every day. Now, if only I'd listen . . .
The problem is, I do objectively think the Burl sounds better even in a single instance. If I sold it - I know me - every time I recorded something that didn’t live up to the “wait - that doesn’t sound like best-recording/song-ever-recorded”, I’d be convinced it was because my AD wasn’t good enough. The first step is admitting you have a problem. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 28, 2023 9:56:06 GMT -6
So here we go...I just did a take through the Burl with the Burl clock and one through the Apollo with the Apollo clock. Here's a mashup of the two. First phrase starts with one AD and then the next phrase is the other AD and so on...Really, not a ton of difference. I'll post the separate files too, but wanted to see how people heard the comp first. When you hear the two separate files, you can pick out differences. COMP - drive.google.com/file/d/1IF2Q3kngvUm3qkSx723nr7zKau2G-GsH/view?usp=sharing Spoke too soon. Didn’t realize there were more comments! 😂😂 |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 9:59:08 GMT -6
Yeah that was my point from the start.... If you have the disposable income or some business reason for having the burl... sure.. keep it... But, there are other places that equity could be of use....especially if you have a mortgage cheers Wiz LOL .... is that my guilt whispering in my ear or you Wiz :-) I often considering selling most of my rig and paying down a significant chunk of my mortgage then my wife reminds me "life is a journey not a destination"I want to enjoy my journey and she always reminds me a BIG part of that is the enormous pleasure my rig gives me. If I do something sensible NOW (at 60 years old) then there's a danger I will feel like I should of done something VERY sensible with my life and not been a professional musician for 42 years. If I start by selling my HEDD 192 A/D/A is just might snowball into a full blown "old man rear view mirror crisis" Not a bad point. This is venturing into a different topic, but I sometimes sell stuff out of guilt. (Or maybe it’s pragmatic sanity.)“I’ve been mixing and staying in the box - why do I have this $2500 xxx?” Or - “why do I have ten guitars - I hardly ever record my own stuff anymore.” I’ve been feeling it more lately because the economy sucks ass and jobs are slowing a bit. Maybe it’s just the summer. |
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Post by mythundreamt on Jun 28, 2023 12:00:33 GMT -6
John I’m exactly like you. (Except the talent, skill, accolades, industry connection and best-forum-ever ownership of course.) I mean more in that I will sell somethings to get something else, but then I really want what those first somethings offered and so the cycle continues. Shuttling between guitar and pro audio purchases and sales of previous purchases. Don’t do it! The Burl sounds better. The moment I heard B it sounded more balanced and solid and I thought A had a midrange nasality, so I am happy to see the results match. You will indeed always remember you had better conversion with every recording you make if you sell the Burl and keep the Apollo, and feel a dissatisfaction. That song sounds gorgeous!! When are you tracking the next one?The best way to convince yourself is next time send your preamp (or if compressing too then compressor out) to the patchbay half normalled and send one output to Apollo line in and one to Burl, and every layer gets printed twice. Two acoustic layers, lead vocals, harmonies, each time being printed twice. Make two (identical LUFS volume) songs and listen to them blind with an ABX tool. Post them both here again  If you can’t pick one and/or we all pick randomly (or if the Apollo is more preferred), then sell the Burl. As it stands you just confirmed for me I need to get myself a B16 mothership when money exists again. Thank you for the audio A/B and the gorgeous song. Now, what desirable thing I slaved to get, should I sell??? |
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Post by nick8801 on Jun 28, 2023 13:11:18 GMT -6
If you really don’t want to deal with 2 different converters you could sell both and get a Lynx. I had a Burl Apollo combo for a bit and I don’t miss it. Will say the Apollo workflow was easier, but once I wrapped my head around the Lynx, I don’t really think about conversion anymore!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 13:19:28 GMT -6
I'm so deep in the UA universe, I couldn't sell the Apollo
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Post by matt on Jun 28, 2023 13:27:20 GMT -6
While I am a relentless gear tester too, I say: go with what makes you want to create, regardless of the name on the front of the box/microphone/amp/headstock etc. That's what I tell myself every day. Now, if only I'd listen . . . The problem is, I do objectively think the Burl sounds better even in a single instance. If I sold it - I know me - every time I recorded something that didn’t live up to the “wait - that doesn’t sound like best-recording/song-ever-recorded”, I’d be convinced it was because my AD wasn’t good enough. The first step is admitting you have a problem. This thread has caused me to bust out my B2 A/D, because I never sell anything. Just in case. So yes, I resemble that problem!
And let's not even discuss the forest of guitars I almost never play. They're a damn good-looking bunch, though.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 13:59:13 GMT -6
I seriously need to quit music so I can afford music.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2023 14:02:59 GMT -6
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Post by Pueblo Audio on Jun 28, 2023 14:06:16 GMT -6
Right, but I would go further and say you never WANT to split a mic signal. Not if sonics count. Mic splitter transformers (which is one of the best ways to make a mic split) just don’t have beautiful response. It will negate/mask any benefits the device you want to test/use might provide. If you can’t tell which of two consecutive, level matched recordings are preferred, then leave it alone. Performance changes but resolution does not. More helpful to listen for that. Absolutely, but some of uss grew up in the world of old school live fighting over who got the non transformer split or who got the BSS splitter, Dante and other Audio over Ethernet protocols have made this somewhat easier. Of course I’ll admit something, manufacturer’s coming in saying “never split a mic signal” has always really pissed me off as both an end user and a successful gear pimp ( your in very prestigious company here). Gear design and practical use should be based on the real world needs of the customer ( first rule of any business is the customer is always right) well the customer decided around 1970 the industry standard would be split it at the mic! You could have designed consoles or pres with 4 outputs with individual trimable outputs but nobody did! Instead in the world of low dollar wedges I got those crappy Yamaha 1608s or Allen and heath. Wedges always got the transformer, Wasn’t till I got to use one of those BSS boxes that I felt special. Even today when I can do a painless split via Cobranet for FOH and monitor world I still need a traditional mic splitter for broadcast or video because they don’t carry a compatible stage box or I either don’t want to give them as little control of the network as possible, or have time. Nope instead I currently sub lease a Transformer split or I’m going to breakdown and buy a used KT square 1 32ch system. But again I can go through this system and point out that the manufacturers could have sure made this easier. For live situations, mic splitters are the solution I choose, myself. But only because it is the lesser of all evils; the net best choice. But in the context of this thread, using a mic splitter for the purpose of critical AB testing, one should never use a mic splitter. It is such a misleading method. All DUTs will be homogenized to the poorest performing device in the split. This masks the better performer and deceives the listener. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2023 14:23:12 GMT -6
A is annoying. Good choice in keeping the Burl. I think I would probably the sell the Apollo after I was the singer and engineer doing that test. Native Luna when?
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Post by wiz on Jun 28, 2023 15:43:54 GMT -6
A is annoying. Good choice in keeping the Burl. I think I would probably the sell the Apollo after I was the singer and engineer doing that test. Native Luna when? Harsh perhaps? 🙂 can you pick out the differences in the full mix? cheers Wiz |
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Post by matt on Jun 28, 2023 15:47:30 GMT -6
I've been threatening to try and do some Eagles songs as close as I can get them. I hear some Vince Gill in your voice John. Good stuff, go for it! |
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Post by bradd on Jun 28, 2023 16:20:06 GMT -6
That sounds amazing, John. I did that with Take it to the Limit a couple of years ago. I'll see if I can figure out how to post it. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 28, 2023 16:20:28 GMT -6
A is annoying. Good choice in keeping the Burl. I think I would probably the sell the Apollo after I was the singer and engineer doing that test. Native Luna when?Never |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 28, 2023 16:58:54 GMT -6
A is annoying. Good choice in keeping the Burl. I think I would probably the sell the Apollo after I was the singer and engineer doing that test. Native Luna when?Never Shhhh! |
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Post by plinker on Jun 28, 2023 20:18:09 GMT -6
Depending on the section, track A is between .5 and 1.5 dB LUFS louder than B -- and the peaks vary as well.
It sounds like frequency dependent compression is happening in the Burl circuit. When I adjust the gain, of course the differences between the two takes are reduced.
However, the Burl certainly has its own smooth and deep sound to it. I'd probably prefer the Apollo for more acoustic-oriented mixes and the Burl for 'lectricity.
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Post by copperx on Jun 28, 2023 20:26:34 GMT -6
A is annoying. Good choice in keeping the Burl. I think I would probably the sell the Apollo after I was the singer and engineer doing that test. Native Luna when?Never Never in this case meaning really soon. Either Luna goes native or UA does some serious hardware overhaul. Guess which one is cheaper. |
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Post by ragan on Jun 28, 2023 22:12:57 GMT -6
Just listened to the solo vocal. I prefer B. It has more dimensionality to it. A sounds a little masked in comparison.
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