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Post by littlesicily on Jun 28, 2014 10:54:31 GMT -6
To me, the FG-x is definitely the easier of the two to use. I agree that when you get the AOM dialed in, it seems that you can push it a little louder and it might be a little cleaner...but I'm struggling a little to wrap my head around the Limit Level and Input Level. Also, I don't like that I have to then add another Level meter to see what's happening and then a dither plug. … really, the AOM is very easy…u can use it as a one-knob plug… just turn up the "input gain" to taste. Personally, I always bounce my mixes at -.04 on the "output gain" bc many players will clip closer than that to zero. Also, 16x oversampling is amazing sounding. I just made a user default preset with settings above, and then adjust input gain per song. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 28, 2014 12:23:31 GMT -6
littlesicily, I'd like to understand this, wouldn't turning up the input gain be the same as raising the volume in the DAW? I assumed the input gain was for when signals were very low.
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Post by littlesicily on Jun 28, 2014 17:23:46 GMT -6
littlesicily, I'd like to understand this, wouldn't turning up the input gain be the same as raising the volume in the DAW? I assumed the input gain was for when signals were very low. Per the developer, consider the input gain knob to be like ur threshold knob on other limiters. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2014 17:39:03 GMT -6
Ok...and then maybe the limit level like a ratio knob? I know on the L2 you can use that little middle arrow/level thingy and it brings the out put and the threshold down at the same time. Then you just use your ears as to where the signal starts getting crunchy, then bring up the output.
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Post by littlesicily on Jun 28, 2014 18:32:45 GMT -6
Ok...and then maybe the limit level like a ratio knob? I know on the L2 you can use that little middle arrow/level thingy and it brings the out put and the threshold down at the same time. Then you just use your ears as to where the signal starts getting crunchy, then bring up the output. I'm not adjusting the "limit level" knob at all. I leave the "output" at -.04, considering that my ceiling. After reading some threads on it, seems most users are doing it this way…. really just turning the one knob (input) up for more limiting. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 28, 2014 20:37:06 GMT -6
cool, I'll try that.
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Post by ragan on Jun 30, 2014 18:59:41 GMT -6
Finally figured out a way to demo the AOM. It's very good. After some careful AB-ing, I feel like it's a lateral move from the FabFilter Pro-L. I like the transients a tad better on the AOM and I like the stereo image a tad better on the Pro-L. The AOM is also a little brighter in the 5-10k range, or the Pro-L is darker, however you want to frame it. I should also say I got these differences in pretty heavy lifting scenarios. When I wasn't limiting as much, the differences weren't as clear, as you'd expect. I won't be buying the AOM at this point, but I would if I didn't have Pro-L. I use the RMS metering and dithering on the Pro-L too so that's something I'd have to replace if I went AOM. The AOM is great though. Its handling of transients especially. Since the Pro-L has attack and release and some transient link controls, I could get it quite close to the AOM, but not quite. The stereo field on the Pro-L however felt smoother and more solid, if that makes any sense.
Anyway. YMMV. Just my (initial) thoughts.
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Post by littlesicily on Jul 4, 2014 17:51:25 GMT -6
The AOM continues to WOW me… so much so that I took another stab at improving my 2buss comp.
I have a handful of things, but tried "The Glue" and "VBC"… both good but nothing really any better than what I have and use.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 4, 2014 18:44:20 GMT -6
The AOM continues to WOW me… so much so that I took another stab at improving my 2buss comp. I have a handful of things, but tried "The Glue" and "VBC"… both good but nothing really any better than what I have and use. prey tell on your 2 buss comp you are using ? |
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Post by littlesicily on Jul 4, 2014 18:48:00 GMT -6
The AOM continues to WOW me… so much so that I took another stab at improving my 2buss comp. I have a handful of things, but tried "The Glue" and "VBC"… both good but nothing really any better than what I have and use. prey tell on your 2 buss comp you are using ? Varies, but I have/use Waves SSL, API2500, PuigChild 670, McDSP CB4... |
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 4, 2014 19:59:07 GMT -6
The AOM continues to WOW me… so much so that I took another stab at improving my 2buss comp. I have a handful of things, but tried "The Glue" and "VBC"… both good but nothing really any better than what I have and use. It's really a game changer for sure.... It's not just limiting... it's got some complex stuff going on in there to give the kind of dynamics and clarity it's giving, truly is unlike anything else I've ever seen. |
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Post by littlesicily on Jul 4, 2014 20:52:40 GMT -6
The AOM continues to WOW me… so much so that I took another stab at improving my 2buss comp. I have a handful of things, but tried "The Glue" and "VBC"… both good but nothing really any better than what I have and use. It's really a game changer for sure.... It's not just limiting... it's got some complex stuff going on in there to give the kind of dynamics and clarity it's giving, truly is unlike anything else I've ever seen. I agree. There's definitely something going on under the hood. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 4, 2014 21:03:49 GMT -6
I tried using the settings differently, as per some of the guys recommendations here, beginning with quite a bit of the Input Gain, and adding only a little compression, leaving the Output at zero, and it sounds even better now, dang.
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Post by littlesicily on Jul 4, 2014 21:21:41 GMT -6
I tried using the settings differently, as per some of the guys recommendations here, beginning with quite a bit of the Input Gain, and adding only a little compression, leaving the Output at zero, and it sounds even better now, dang. Cool. I think it's a safe bet to back down a few tenths of a db from zero output. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 4, 2014 22:14:19 GMT -6
Yeah - I did the same...using it how Sal mentioned. Not touching the knob on the left. Definitely seems cleaner and can get so much louder than the others without artifacts.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 4, 2014 22:22:36 GMT -6
I tried using the settings differently, as per some of the guys recommendations here, beginning with quite a bit of the Input Gain, and adding only a little compression, leaving the Output at zero, and it sounds even better now, dang. Cool. I think it's a safe bet to back down a few tenths of a db from zero output. Hey Sal, maybe you can answer this for me because I still can't figure out something when I set my final level. Every time I pull up a commercial mix my meters will show me 0.0db, but you can play that through an Iphone or whatever and it sounds normal, however, if I set mine to -0.1 I hear some distortion through iphones or whatever. Even the RMS, if a commercial mix is at -6db RMS and I set mine to be around there, same thing, so what the hell is different here?? How are mastering guys getting mixes to that level but it sounds totally fine through todays devices, and mine can be the same exact level but I hear distortion? And if you turn the phone down a click or two it sounds totally normal. It's just weird, and I know it has to be something I'm missing or a step I'm not doing or something. If someone knows this answer please tell me what I'm doing wrong because it puzzles the hell out of me. I have to end up pulling my mixes way back down when I send them off for approval and if another guy is in competition and can get his louder he's got an advantage over me. I'd be glad to provide samples of this, but I'm going to bet someone can tell me what's going on without it. |
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Post by littlesicily on Jul 4, 2014 22:30:44 GMT -6
Jerome, I'm not sure why that's happening, but -6 rms is pretty dang hot!!
Could be that ur limiter is doing too much of the heavy lifting?
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Post by littlesicily on Jul 4, 2014 22:33:56 GMT -6
IME, there are a lot of factors in getting a loud mix without distortion. I'm no mastering guy but do have to bump up the mixes for pitches. For instance, if there's too much low end in a mix, it can crap out the limiter and lessen the perceived loudness.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 4, 2014 22:51:21 GMT -6
Haha.... yeah, -6 is extreme, it's just an example, but some commercial mixes are that loud but sound normal on those little devices, there's got to be a secret to that sauce somehow.
I used to have to deal with it, but guys are sending refs with the levels jacked pretty high now. I'd also like to start mastering some too, Hank Williams usually gets all my work but some projects don't need that level of service, I mean what Hank can do is incredible. But, it's pricey, and on the lower budget stuff if I can stick another 1k in my pocket by mastering it and getting it to the same levels and smooth it out a bit that would be a nice addition. I just need to do some research and figure out what it is I'm doing wrong, I'm sure it's simple.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 6:53:52 GMT -6
Hi jeromemason, sounds to me like inter-sample peaks. On the SSL webpage there is an inter-sample peak detector plugin for free. Try this one and watch out for overshoots in your distorting mixes... EDIT: Link: www.solid-state-logic.com/music/X-ISM/ |
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 5, 2014 15:15:05 GMT -6
Hi jeromemason, sounds to me like inter-sample peaks. On the SSL webpage there is an inter-sample peak detector plugin for free. Try this one and watch out for overshoots in your distorting mixes... EDIT: Link: www.solid-state-logic.com/music/X-ISM/That was my suspicion, because I'm not doing anything any different in regards to levels as what mastering guys do. I know a few, I called and asked them if my gain staging was right and they said that's how they do it, even in the box, one of them has a hybrid rig. I'm slowly stepping the gain up with each processor in the chain, if my mix is at -6db peak, then I will add 2db with my eq, then 2db with my first compressor, then another 2db with my last, that gets my peaks to 0.00db. Then all I use the limiter to do is raise the RMS level and that usually is a turn of about 5-6db and I'm there. It's not the bass clogging anything up because I've put a HPF on and rolled from 200hz down and printed and it does the same thing. So, I think you're right Martin, but I am dithering, which is what is supposed to take care of the inter-sample peaks.... maybe I need to look for something with a different algorithm. I'll try that detector out, that's pretty cool. Thanks @smallbutfine! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 5, 2014 15:25:16 GMT -6
I know the Ozone 5 plug does the inter sample peaks thingamabob. But it's when the "maximizer" is engaged. Since using the aom, I've been using ozone 5 for dither. The maximizer and dither modules are separate.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 7, 2014 18:05:07 GMT -6
The L1 was first to do inter sample peaks only it was called "analog mode" because Michael Gerzon didn't want to get to geeky. A better way is to just drop the level .7 to 1 dB. The risk today is clipping the filter bank in an MP3 or AAC encoder.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 8, 2014 15:33:33 GMT -6
Bob, when I run a mix, sometimes I put all the "mastering" plugs in the 2 bus. The WAV file mix sounds good, but the download to Soundcloud doesn't. Could that be from clipping the mp3 or AAC encoder like you mentioned.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 8, 2014 17:58:46 GMT -6
Probably.
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