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Post by theshea on Jun 5, 2023 8:23:05 GMT -6
i am still working on a macbook pro 2012 on logic pro x 10.4.4 with a RME fireface 400. that's what i call vintage!
... but it is still working! although within logic the system starts to struggle sometimes with more taxing plugins.
i mainly record real instruments, so very few VI are in my mixing session. 5-6 times a year i record drums, so need 8-12 recording tracks (i use an even older presonus firepod daisychained via firewire to my RME fireface for the additional 4 inputs.
but most of the time i record electric & acoustic guitar with 2 mics/inputs and vocals.
i have 6 good preamps and a few outboard (2x 1176, drawmer 1978, dbx 118, teac a-3300sx tapemachine) things i use while mixing with logic's i/o plugin and a patchbay.
... but i guess it's about time to re-think my whole setup. i'd like to start recording and mixing at 88Hz. and i'd like to have a mac ONLY for music, nothing else. currently i work on it as well (graphic designer).
so i am thinking about buying a macbook pro m1 with 32gb. that would mean buying a new audiointerface as well as the old firewire RME wouldn't work. i am very satisfied with RME, especially totalmix and latency free monitoring through it. but i am open to suggestions.
i need 8 inputs (+4/6 for drums), 10-12 outputs would be great (so i could use more outboard when mixing). for monitoring i have a mackie big knob and i use a behringer x-touch as faders and to control selected plugins.
what could you advice? i'd like to get ideas as i am no tech-nerd and don't follow new audiointerfaces and tech evolution closely ... RME & mac has served me well for over 10 years now, so i am not one off those who change every 3 years – please keep that in mind.
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Post by christopher on Jun 5, 2023 10:59:11 GMT -6
The old FireWire RME stuff will likely still work with M1, just have to chain a couple of the correct dongles. Here’s a recent thread forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=36665I’m in a similar boat, my Best Buy card and Apple cross my mind 3 times a day lol. But the 88m is calling my name and producing gas..could still use the ff400 as ADAT. But then, if total mix works could ADAT the other stuff. My real problem is I really want 24io. Thinking about older PTHD rig, but that feels backwards |
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Post by theshea on Jun 5, 2023 11:09:00 GMT -6
The old FireWire RME stuff will likely still work with M1, just have to chain a couple of the correct dongles. Here’s a recent thread forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=36665I’m in a similar boat, my Best Buy card and Apple cross my mind 3 times a day lol. But the 88m is calling my name and producing gas..could still use the ff400 as ADAT. But then, if total mix works could ADAT the other stuff. My real problem is I really want 24io. Thinking about older PTHD rig, but that feels backwards yeah thats one of my ideas. use the rme ff400 with adat connected to the „new“ audiointerface as i don‘t need 10-12 in‘s all the time. just for drum recording. but i am not convinced by using a firewire>tb dongle … |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2023 11:10:47 GMT -6
If you like RME and are comfortable stick to RME, but I would also take a good look at Metric Halo as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2023 11:19:43 GMT -6
Fireface UFX III + a few adat expanders and just ping everything to compensate for the various latencies of the converters. If you want a better monitoring da, you can always hook up one with aes or spdif too. I say UFX because who knows how many channel you will want in future?
Ferrofish makes high channel adat and madi converters similar to the old lucids with their mid jrc opamp stages 🤮 but cheap
If you want better sound than RME, you could go Lynx for a lot more money or for cheap, used Apogee Element 88 used or wait for Apogee to come out with new 8 channel interface with adat in chip famine and control all digitally. I like Apogee but both Apogee and RME are rather controversial manufacturers for different reasons.
Just don’t go antelope.
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Post by theshea on Jun 5, 2023 12:35:42 GMT -6
If you like RME and are comfortable stick to RME, but I would also take a good look at Metric Halo as well. yeah i kinda find it hard to leave rme as its sooo stable. all the time. no problem at all. with a more than 10 year old product. but than if not now - when is the time to change. so i am open to suggestions. i could always try to get 2-3 units and hear for myself. lynx, while beeing a bit pricier do interest me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2023 13:23:48 GMT -6
If you like RME and are comfortable stick to RME, but I would also take a good look at Metric Halo as well. yeah i kinda find it hard to leave rme as its sooo stable. all the time. no problem at all. with a more than 10 year old product. but than if not now - when is the time to change. so i am open to suggestions. i could always try to get 2-3 units and hear for myself. lynx, while beeing a bit pricier do interest me. Yeah another thing is the varying latencies when recording and doing monitoring mixes even if hardware inserts have ping feature. Total Mix and the other interface dsp mixes do not compensate. Lynx and Apogee can do 32 channels in one unit and UAD Apollo and Avid HDX automatically compensate for the latency of daisy chaining their own units together even if Pro Tools PDC isn't that great. RME UFX III only has 12 analog inputs and 8 analog outputs so if you do drums, it might be really good to have them all on another ADAT or MADI and have separate better stereo converters for monitoring and capturing the analog stereo mixdown from your mix bus or a drum bus where you're using that cool Drawmer 1978. The UFX III is really a centerpiece for a high channel count madi converter or something like that. UFX II is the same thing as UFX III without the MADI and is the ADAT based one.
UCX II is very limited on its own and is 6 in 6 out with options for 8in 8 out of ADAT expansion and AES/SPDIF breakout for separate more accurate stereo converters and a total of 20 in / 20 out when fully expanded.
The market is still not great because of chip shortages.
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Post by gmichael on Jun 5, 2023 16:12:27 GMT -6
Fireface UFX III + a few adat expanders and just ping everything to compensate for the various latencies of the converters. If you want a better monitoring da, you can always hook up one with aes or spdif too. I say UFX because who knows how many channel you will want in future? Ferrofish makes high channel adat and madi converters similar to the old lucids with their mid jrc opamp stages 🤮 but cheap If you want better sound than RME, you could go Lynx for a lot more money or for cheap, used Apogee Element 88 used or wait for Apogee to come out with new 8 channel interface with adat in chip famine and control all digitally. I like Apogee but both Apogee and RME are rather controversial manufacturers for different reasons. Just don’t go antelope. While I have been very lucky with my Zen Tour in a composers room, I can't recommend Antelope either. When it works it's hard to match, but it can be buggy and difficult to navigate the un-intuitive mixer pages. I hate that little click sound when switching between rates or closing a project and opening a new one. Other than that, the converters are excellent, it definitely has a very high quality sound but too many small little issues to make it easy to recommend. I've begun switching my satellite rooms over to the easy to use brilliant sounding no software required Neve 88M. These are just writng stations where 10 inputs is more than enough, most only use 1 mono or a single stereo input at a time. No bugs, no glitches just smooth amazing sounding interface that punches way above its price point. There is really nothing like it. For more channels, I'd stick with what I had for the time being and wait to see how the chip crisis plays out. If Taiwan turns into another endless war, you'll have your answer as to what to do.
I'd stay away from anything AVID until their buyout is completed and you have an idea of what kind of life expectancy to anticipate and what type of the typically much needed support you will have access to. I expect all AVID support to move to a pay per instance of support needs once a product reaches it's warranty end, and that will be administered by a licensed 3rd party support provider. RME is a great option but if you run massive counts, you'll more than likely need several components, the cost per box saving smay mushroom into a whole other level of costings, but you'll have stability and excellent support for the life of the product. Nothing on the new interface horizon looks appealing to me currently, not anything I would risk stability on for sure.
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Post by ironinthepath on Jun 5, 2023 16:22:35 GMT -6
I used an ancient Motu setup for over 15 years (Motu 1224), which had specs Motu couldn’t themselves beat for a long time. I think the motu 16a was one semi recent example that finally did.
In the end, when finally upgrading/renewing my setup, I went with a Lynx Aurora (n). I couldn’t be happier, unlikely I’ll ever need to improve conversion again, and I like their modular approach that can be updated again for new digital I/O formats if called for in the future. I use a Mac mini with Thunderbolt
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 5, 2023 17:51:21 GMT -6
Another perfectly happy aurora N over tbolt user here.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2023 20:24:52 GMT -6
Can I just say we are a house of RADAR?
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Post by viciousbliss on Jun 5, 2023 23:46:57 GMT -6
If you like RME and are comfortable stick to RME, but I would also take a good look at Metric Halo as well. yeah i kinda find it hard to leave rme as its sooo stable. all the time. no problem at all. with a more than 10 year old product. but than if not now - when is the time to change. so i am open to suggestions. i could always try to get 2-3 units and hear for myself. lynx, while beeing a bit pricier do interest me. I can also vouch for an Aurora N. Been very solid for me. Tremendous to listen to for fun and revealing enough for studio work. All the customizing options could come in handy too. Fusion works with it flawlessly, no weird feedback or it disappearing from Pro Tools. |
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Post by svart on Jun 6, 2023 11:23:16 GMT -6
MOTU. My setup has been flawless for a few years now. Using PC, but we have also hooked it up to Macs occasionally and it's worked perfectly there too.
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Post by theshea on Jun 8, 2023 23:52:25 GMT -6
thanks for the suggestions. after reading on aurora i see the specs are better than rme‘s but … feelings seem attached to rme. i am even thinking about the smaller rme ucx II unit now. it would sit next to my fireface400 and both would fill up just one 19“ rack space. at 96hz i would get my 12 input tracks as needed for drums. it would save me some money, too!
i never ever heard an aurora, they seem not so popular in europe where rme are way more out there. is aurora „really“ a step up to rme SOUNDWISE?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2023 2:51:13 GMT -6
thanks for the suggestions. after reading on aurora i see the specs are better than rme‘s but … feelings seem attached to rme. i am even thinking about the smaller rme ucx II unit now. it would sit next to my fireface400 and both would fill up just one 19“ rack space. at 96hz i would get my 12 input tracks as needed for drums. it would save me some money, too! i never ever heard an aurora, they seem not so popular in europe where rme are way more out there. is aurora „really“ a step up to rme SOUNDWISE? Yes. Lynx doesn't use junky JRC4580, knockoff Chinese capacitors, and lacks phase shifted treble in anti-alias filters. You get what you pay for and RME is built to a cheaper price. Europe is a continent full of Octamic apologists.
UCX II only has 6 analog line inputs and one ADAT port for another multichannel converter. ADAT only has 4 channels at 88.2/96 kHz vs 8 at 44.1/48 kHz. UCX II has an AES and SPDIF breakout cable so you can add 2 stereo converters to it, which add up to 20 inputs with the DIs on the front. Each separate converter will have a separate latency that interfaces will not automatically compensate for. You'll have to ping them and compensate to not have phase shift on your drums.
A better option is to just get an interface with as many analog inputs as you need. UFX II has 8 line level inputs and 4 mic/line combo inputs and 2 ADAT inputs so you can hook up 2 ADAT converters to get 16 more channels at 44.1 or 48 kHz for 28 channels and have options for higher end stereo DAC and ADC. A Ferrofish Pulse 16 rack mount unit is a cheap multichannel option there with enough channels for drums. You can use the line ins for other stuff and the built in mic pres for talkback or something. UFX III has a MADI input for very high channel counts. There are also PCI-E cards and RME interfaces without any analog inputs.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 9, 2023 3:16:10 GMT -6
Pickup the new RME 802 FS. 4 preamps and 8 additional line ins.
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Post by theshea on Jun 9, 2023 5:58:18 GMT -6
Pickup the new RME 802 FS. 4 preamps and 8 additional line ins. can i use all 12 inputs simultaneously? |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 9, 2023 6:01:48 GMT -6
Pickup the new RME 802 FS. 4 preamps and 8 additional line ins. can i use all 12 inputs simultaneously? Yes. 4 pres on the front and 8 line in on the back. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 9, 2023 6:07:03 GMT -6
The old FireWire RME stuff will likely still work with M1, just have to chain a couple of the correct dongles. Here’s a recent thread forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=36665I’m in a similar boat, my Best Buy card and Apple cross my mind 3 times a day lol. But the 88m is calling my name and producing gas..could still use the ff400 as ADAT. But then, if total mix works could ADAT the other stuff. My real problem is I really want 24io. Thinking about older PTHD rig, but that feels backwards yeah thats one of my ideas. use the rme ff400 with adat connected to the „new“ audiointerface as i don‘t need 10-12 in‘s all the time. just for drum recording. but i am not convinced by using a firewire>tb dongle … RME have managed to get their firewire devices working on M1 and performance is the same. You need to use 2 adapters (TB3 -> TB2) -> (TB2 -> Firewire). And Apple may disable firewire in the someway in the future. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 9, 2023 6:29:20 GMT -6
SNIP... And Apple may disable firewire in the someway in the future. STEVE JOBS IS ROLLING OVER IN HIS GRAVE |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2023 9:50:48 GMT -6
Pickup the new RME 802 FS. 4 preamps and 8 additional line ins. why is their lineup so convoluted? Why don’t they have a modular interface like Apogee, Avid, Burl, or Lynx? |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 10, 2023 1:25:38 GMT -6
Pickup the new RME 802 FS. 4 preamps and 8 additional line ins. why is their lineup so convoluted? Why don’t they have a modular interface like Apogee, Avid, Burl, or Lynx? Because they are German. I view RME as a "utility" brand which offers digital solutions for most audio workflows. I think RMEs line up covers way more ground than any other brand out there. When I have my 802 or 9652 running the studio I know its bullet proof. When I plug in my Antelope I hope and pray (although its almost exclusively used via adat). Apogee's line (which i love the sound of) is pretty basic routing and io wise so you have to make your studio work around the interface and their driver development is total dog shit. Unfortunately they are also becoming like antelope with their legacy products. These are the reasons i haven't pulled the trigger on a desktop symphony. I don't want too risk spending that money on a 2 channel interface, that they may drop support for, but if i can snag one for a bargain i will.... Avids prosumer line of interfaces has been all over the place over the years, although the m-audio 2626 was a winner in its day. HD is of course the "studio standard". I have never had the opportunity to own Burl or Lynx, but I loved my Metric Halo when I was on mac. Only company to rival RME in terms of support IMO. Any modern interface will be great in a home studio, but when you are on the clock it needs to work. |
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Post by theshea on Jun 10, 2023 1:42:48 GMT -6
Pickup the new RME 802 FS. 4 preamps and 8 additional line ins. just got mail from RME and realised that the 802 FS is a brand new product. thats interesting. i doubt i will hear the sound difference lynx/rme with my raw rock music but would like to hear it myself. maybe i will order and try them side by side. how is the monitoring system working with lynx aurora n? i am used to rme totalmix and love it. |
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Post by anders on Jun 11, 2023 1:01:40 GMT -6
It is unclear if the mac will be sitting in one place or be lugged around, but if you're buying a new mac for music only, and it will stay connected to your gear and a largish screen in a studio space, I think the mac mini should be on your shortlist, as it has a few advantages:
* Small footprint and no awkward screen in the way if you're already running an external screen. Same goes for the keyboard and trackpad/ball – more flexible ergonomics and desk layout
* HDMI out, so you won't need a dongle for your screen
* Silent
* Effortlessly runs more Logic tracks than anyone should have in a project
* A lot cheaper than a macbook
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Post by theshea on Jun 11, 2023 1:09:40 GMT -6
It is unclear if the mac will be sitting in one place or be lugged around, but if you're buying a new mac for music only, and it will stay connected to your gear and a largish screen in a studio space, I think the mac mini should be on your shortlist, as it has a few advantages: * Small footprint and no awkward screen in the way if you're already running an external screen. Same goes for the keyboard and trackpad/ball – more flexible ergonomics and desk layout * HDMI out, so you won't need a dongle for your screen * Silent * Effortlessly runs more Logic tracks than anyone should have in a project * A lot cheaper than a macbook i think i will buy a macbook pro m1 w/32gb. i like having 2 screens: mixer/arrangement window on my external display and meters/freq analyser on my macbook monitor. and i need a portable computer as i am also recording/mixing away occasionally. i am even eyeing a rme babyface as my portable audiointerface. |
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