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Post by viciousbliss on May 23, 2023 13:07:55 GMT -6
I was wondering what you guys think of the Shadow Hills Mastering Comp and if it has any benefits over something like a Herchild. Most all the Youtube videos for it are just showcasing drums. There's one that sounds brilliant that looks like it's from a Japanese creator, but it doesn't look like they show the unprocessed audio. The lack of a hp filter could be an issue. The Herchild sounds better to me than the Unfairchild based on the Vintage King and Audio Animals videos. There's this murkiness with the instruments on the Unfairchild whereas the Herchild can be smooth and really clear at the same time without losing any vibe. It also sounds very close to the actual Fairchild in Dr Mix's video. Heritage support didn't make it seem like the maintenance would be that bad and I can drive to Deltronics in about 10 minutes. They talk about being able to fix Eventide stuff and other hardware.
I'm not sure how much hardware I'll really need. Paul from Audio Animals said I'd have to replace Vintage Drive with Black Box but I tracked down a few things they mastered and I was not a fan at all(though the samples they use when evaluating gear sound good). Too pushed, too compressed. Some distortion in the lows. Someone on Reddit said that that's their sound and they didn't change it on a revision request. That sound is par for the course with a lot of mastering places with high-end equipment though, I suppose. Needless to say, I vastly prefer what I can do with Fusion and a few plugins over a lot of modern mastering that's out there. I'd just like to go a little bigger and a little smoother while also having something that attracts clients.
If there's a better idea than Shadow Hills or Herchild, I'm interested in that. A single hardware piece or a combination of something like Bettermaker gear. I'm not sure how great a strategy it'd be to pay extra for one of those if branding is all I gain from it. Ultimately, I'm going to try and sell myself as providing the opposite of these terrible modern masters and die on that hill if I have to. There's not a lot of info or samples on either out there.
Here's that Shadow Hills video I mentioned:
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Post by unit7 on May 23, 2023 13:47:41 GMT -6
I've got one (the one with red lightbulbs) and also two Analoguetube Fairchild clones. The SHMC is good but I call it the bimbo of my rack because it has the looks but the space inside is air mostly, and to me it doesn't sound nearly as epic as it looks. Really nice show off piece. The AT-101 on the other hand is fantastic. I don't know the Herchild but if it is only half as nice as the Analoguetube I'd recommend it.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 23, 2023 13:56:03 GMT -6
I've read posts on here and elsewhere saying the Vacuvox 32 is the 670 to get. Seems like it may cost double what the Herchild and Unfairchild do. I still need to track down some AT-101 clips to hear. That one may cost a lot more than the Herchild and Unfair though.
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Post by sean on May 23, 2023 14:49:09 GMT -6
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Post by viciousbliss on May 23, 2023 15:40:53 GMT -6
I'd heard about POM when researching the other day. It was tough just to find any kind of site linked to it. Never saw the site posted above, but I'm glad it's posted here. Looks like the price is higher than the Herchild or Unfairchild. Guessing there'd be fees for importing it too? The Un sounds better on a TV, but it seems like the TV is boosting highs. Comparing the Shadow Hills in the video versus the Vintage King with the two 670 clones, the song in the Shadow Hills sounds better and more like a finished product. Whether that's the result of the hardware or the song I can't say.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 23, 2023 18:31:21 GMT -6
Buy the gear for the sounds and inspiration. Don’t buy it because it will attract clients. I’ve got racks of nice stuff and a lot of clients are literally clueless. There were definitely clients that were more impressed by my old Midas console than the 5088 I replaced it with, just because of the size.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 23, 2023 19:18:48 GMT -6
Buy the gear for the sounds and inspiration. Don’t buy it because it will attract clients. I’ve got racks of nice stuff and a lot of clients are literally clueless. There were definitely clients that were more impressed by my old Midas console than the 5088 I replaced it with, just because of the size. It's hard to gauge what attracts clients. Paul from Audio Animals claims he gets a minimum of two emails a day asking just to run tracks through his Unfairchild, not even for a mix or a master. If I eventually got to the point where a Fairchild clone was getting me two songs a day, that's over 29k a year revenue if all I charged was $40 each song. I'm looking at hardware purchases as an investment. It just happens I have family members who put money into securities and things of that nature that are either risky or don't pay a lot. Seems like a few hardware pieces may be a better investment and if I completely fail at it, they retain so much of their value that it's not a huge loss when it goes up on Reverb or wherever. Certainly a lot better than putting money into an investment and losing it all. I'm surprised that some of the sales people at these big places aren't trying hard to close me. No one is even trying to offer me anything to close aside from one guy. He's not even being pushy, just offering us info and help with financing on top of discounts of some nature. He thinks a Shadow Hills is a better idea for me than a Fairchild clone based on my own needs in mastering and for attracting clients. There's no real way for me to try this stuff as I don't really consider paying Access Analog or a similar place to be that viable an idea considering how expensive and inefficient the whole process is. I'm about 85% happy with the mixing and mastering I can do with Fusion and my current combo of plugins. But I know it will be significantly better if I swap out the UAD 670 with one of these clones or if I use Shadow Hills instead of one of these compressor plugins. But, I'm definitely interested in hearing opinions of other things I should check out instead of these 10k compressors. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 23, 2023 21:26:20 GMT -6
I don’t know who Paul is, but maybe I should be marketing that shit. People will pay $40 to run a track through a compressor?
Anyone needs some tracks run through an mpressor? Fat bustard? 😂😂
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Post by viciousbliss on May 23, 2023 23:34:55 GMT -6
I don’t know who Paul is, but maybe I should be marketing that shit. People will pay $40 to run a track through a compressor? Anyone needs some tracks run through an mpressor? Fat bustard? 😂😂 Paul from the Audio Animals Youtube Channel and studio. Two emails a day requesting Unfairchild is what he claims. Today he just claimed that he does 500 songs a day in his studio. If he's talking about only himself doing this in Studio A or whatever one he was in, that's like 17 songs mastered per day. I've been trying to wrap my head around how someone pulls that off when using something like two dozen pieces of hardware plus a chain of plugins afterwards with stuff like Soothe. Maybe it was all from two or three albums where you could use the same settings over and over. So, I asked him how he tackles such a high volume of stuff. I find it difficult to know dozens of plugins and have just kinda honed in on 15 or 20 of them. It'd probably drive me nuts to know dozens of plugins, dozens of hardware pieces, and then have to find out how best to utilize them for almost three dozen songs a day. If I am able to get this deal done, I'm going to aim for one high quality hardware chain and just quit while I'm ahead. |
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Post by niklas1073 on May 24, 2023 2:28:55 GMT -6
Buy the gear for the sounds and inspiration. Don’t buy it because it will attract clients. I’ve got racks of nice stuff and a lot of clients are literally clueless. There were definitely clients that were more impressed by my old Midas console than the 5088 I replaced it with, just because of the size. I'm about 85% happy with the mixing and mastering I can do with Fusion and my current combo of plugins. But I know it will be significantly better if I swap out the UAD 670 with one of these clones or if I use Shadow Hills instead of one of these compressor plugins. But, I'm definitely interested in hearing opinions of other things I should check out instead of these 10k compressors. Which ever you’ll go for I’m sure you will be happy. I was in the same situation a few years back with UAD670. Was using it a lot but something was missing. I could not economically look at the fairchild clones so I had to look elsewhere. I got myself an IGS tubecore mastering edition. Even though it doesn’t sound like the fairchild, it gave the character I was missing out on the plugin and it lives in my mix bus always on. The uad670 is a great plugin and i still use it all the time on drum bus for example. So if you are not set on the exact sound of the fairchild but more what a great valve master comp does, the tubecore could be worth checking out too. |
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Post by lowlou on May 24, 2023 3:15:15 GMT -6
The Stamchild mk2 is excellent too.
cheers !
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ji43
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by ji43 on May 24, 2023 6:55:53 GMT -6
If you can afford a pair of the Vacuvox U23m (and the wait time), go for it...absolutely stunning.
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Post by spindrift on May 24, 2023 7:03:53 GMT -6
I have the POM Fairchild w/ OG transformers and it is a great piece of kit. A couple of friends recently picked up pairs of the Vacuvoxs so I’m hoping to do a comparison sometime soon. It seems easier to get the Vacuvoxs on the used market than the POM.
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Post by sean on May 24, 2023 7:19:48 GMT -6
For one thing…do you want to spend your day answering emails, downloading files, running a track through a piece of hardware, exporting it, uploading it, sending it back to the client, for $40? And to get to the point where two people a day email you with that request do you want to spend thousands of hours and a decades worth of time making YouTube videos to attract those kind of clients?
Maybe check Access Analog and see if they have a Shadow Hills and/our a Fairchild you can run stuff through
Now, if you are a commercial studio or try to attract outside engineers/producers to your space I could maybe see how having an Unfairchild or something similar would be attractive?
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Post by bossanova on May 24, 2023 8:13:40 GMT -6
For one thing…do you want to spend your day answering emails, downloading files, running a track through a piece of hardware, exporting it, uploading it, sending it back to the client, for $40? And to get to the point where two people a day email you with that request do you want to spend thousands of hours and a decades worth of time making YouTube videos to attract those kind of clients? Maybe check Access Analog and see if they have a Shadow Hills and/our a Fairchild you can run stuff through Mix:Analog has a Fairchild clone. It sounds like the Beatles. |
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Post by ab101 on May 24, 2023 8:45:03 GMT -6
Not a Fairchild, but the Gyraf G22 is beautiful with a lot of features.
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Post by drbill on May 24, 2023 9:35:27 GMT -6
OP - you mentioned financing options above. You can take this advice or leave it. Your choice.
Don't. Not enough time to get into the details why, but at this stage of the game, I would highly suggest against that. Believe about 1/100th of what you are being told. All this coming from decades of experience. Gear is very rarely a financial investment in and of itself. Rare mics can be the exception. It's more of an investment in YOU if it increases your productivity and product.
At this point in my career I try not to buy stuff unless a long time paying client demands it, or my work flow can't sustain without it.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 24, 2023 12:36:44 GMT -6
OP - you mentioned financing options above. You can take this advice or leave it. Your choice. Don't. Not enough time to get into the details why, but at this stage of the game, I would highly suggest against that. Believe about 1/100th of what you are being told. All this coming from decades of experience. Gear is very rarely a financial investment in and of itself. Rare mics can be the exception. It's more of an investment in YOU if it increases your productivity and product. At this point in my career I try not to buy stuff unless a long time paying client demands it, or my work flow can't sustain without it. Audio Animals is going to make a video explaining how they can master 17 songs a day. I never take much of anything at face value. To me, it seems logical that if you have dozens of expensive hardware pieces and charge 40 British pounds a song that you'd have demand with some advertising and Youtube videos. If these guys are half as successful as they claim, then it means the ideas work. I'm not sure how they could afford all that gear unless they have some rich person financing it and they're just a vanity studio. Most studios seem to just stick with what they bought originally and aren't buying the latest stuff. For me the hardware is just about branding and allowing me to live up to it. If it doesn't work, sell them on the used market. I've done really well at my past jobs involving sales and analyzing evidence, so, I'm curious what I can pull off here employing those same skills while also having an advertising budget. When I say investment, I mean an investment in allowing me to build something. I'm not anticipating that any hardware piece is guaranteed to appreciate. I may only be able to finance one thing with 36 month financing and that's it. $200 something a month. Could be I just end up with a Shadow Hills financed and a Black Box paid with cash. This won't be some major risk I'm taking. I'd actually make a lot of videos with whatever pieces. Lots of hardware vs plugin stuff. I notice in the comments of those type of things or about emulations on forums that there are so many bitter guys desperate to say the plugin is just as good. In the really good videos with multiple comparisons, there may be a couple examples where they're close, but there's always some instance where the hardware blows away the plugin. The IGS Tubecore does sound really good. Everything recommended here definitely does. It'd be great if I could find a lot more videos though...hah. |
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Post by theshea on May 25, 2023 23:22:20 GMT -6
if i were in your situation, i would seriously consider the Rupert Neve Designs Portico II Master Buss Black.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 26, 2023 3:51:59 GMT -6
if i were in your situation, i would seriously consider the Rupert Neve Designs Portico II Master Buss Black. I've certainly considered it. There's a video of it along with Fusion from Dom on Youtube. There's also a video of Dom and Doctor Mix live mixing with the SHMC that I stumbled on earlier. While I haven't watched all of it, there was a part where they compared it with the Thermionic Phoenix briefly. The Portico II always sounded awesome in all videos. It has 36 month financing and the Tubecore 48 month. These two would still be cheaper than SHMC. I also just went through that GS thread with all the wav files for various compressors. It's got the SH Vandergraph, Dangerous, POMchild, Obsidian, Slam, Portico II, Tubecore, Thermionic Phoenix, lots of stuff. I've downloaded almost all the files and put them in Audacity to compare. Vandergraph was my favorite for the way it organizes things and how it lets the snare really hit with force. I'm starting to warm to the Alpha. That and the SH kept the snare drum most audible and prominent during the busier parts of the first song. The Alpha kept stuff together better during the third song and is maybe the best of all at keeping stuff organized. Sample was snippets of three songs with the compressors used across the mix. Most all the compressors were good. SHMC is also one of the few things with 36 month 0% financing. The Vandergraph was maybe 6 months. I wonder why the Optopgraph is discontinued. If I bought a used one of those and a Vandergraph, that's still way, way cheaper than a new SHMC. VK is mainly 6-12 month financing. Elysia Alpha has 60 months with 4k of interest. Sweetwater has a lot of 24-month, but then that extra charge kicks in if I want to add 18 months. Guess I have to see what I can negotiate. Too bad there's no place around here that I know of that sells this stuff. |
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Post by jmoose on May 27, 2023 18:38:59 GMT -6
To me, it seems logical that if you have dozens of expensive hardware pieces and charge 40 British pounds a song that you'd have demand with some advertising and Youtube videos. If these guys are half as successful as they claim, then it means the ideas work. I'm not sure how they could afford all that gear unless they have some rich person financing it and they're just a vanity studio. Most studios seem to just stick with what they bought originally and aren't buying the latest stuff. For me the hardware is just about branding and allowing me to live up to it. What are we talking about here... in this thread..? Its been some years but I've used real Fairchilds. Have a couple friends with Stamchilds. I haven't used the physical Shadow Hills... nor have I ever even seen one in person. I've also strapped a bunch of other fairly wicked stereo compressors across the 2 mix from time to time... Yet I'm kinda confused because we seem to be trending towards business decisions? If I buy it they will come..? Ehhh. Probably not. Not really how this business works. Lots of "vanity studios" out there. Probably more of those then guys doing actual for hire work. I know a local guy who, it seems every time I talk to him there's another new $4000 box in the room. Lotta cool stuff. Things I'll admit I'm jealous of. But I know for a fact the studio ain't paying for any of it. Damn near all that gear is paid for with his big money day gig. Its not that he doesn't work but he's only booking about 3 or 4 days a month on average. Very, very little actually comes out of that cave. Its even been a few years since his own band released something! One of the reasons why? Touching on something I said in the "pro vs non pro" thread? He's got no time. Its all in the day gig. Not much time for actual music. Yet look at the socials and you'd think holy guacamole... this guy must be fucking awesome & tearing it up if he can afford all that! But its mostly a total bullshit fabrication. Some dudes hobbies are expensive cars... some are into hookers & blow. For others its the studio & music gear. Saul good. There's another local guy I'm friends with, and his shop actually is busy but he exaggerates everything. Oh yeah we did 500 records last year! Really dude? 500? There's only 365 days in a year so your doing a record and a half every day?! Out of a single room facility? Seriously impressive bro. I think Steve Albini said he's made about 1000 records over his whole career? That seems more reasonable. Nobody is going to book you just because you own a certain piece of equipment. This is largely a results driven business. If you do great work then people will come regardless of whats in the racks. Or even what your space looks like. Ultimately that stuff, and hate to say this on a gear site... but the gear doesn't matter. It doesn't provide a result. You provide the result. That's proven day in and day out. For everyone like me who's driving a largely analog shop there's someone else getting it done mostly ITB. That's cold hard reality. I also, just kinda doubt that anyone who's really that busy? Has had that much success where they're getting dozens of emails a day? They wouldn't be working at $40 a track. That smells funny. Like an electric ham sandwich. If you are that busy you'd raise the rates. |
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Post by EmRR on May 27, 2023 19:10:33 GMT -6
There's a long and storied history of local studies everywhere seeking to take over a market through endless bottom-rate deals, and some at least used to seem to be the busiest because of it. They all burn out and vanish, the longest running seem to top out at 2 years.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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Post by ericn on May 27, 2023 19:16:52 GMT -6
For one thing…do you want to spend your day answering emails, downloading files, running a track through a piece of hardware, exporting it, uploading it, sending it back to the client, for $40? And to get to the point where two people a day email you with that request do you want to spend thousands of hours and a decades worth of time making YouTube videos to attract those kind of clients? Maybe check Access Analog and see if they have a Shadow Hills and/our a Fairchild you can run stuff through Now, if you are a commercial studio or try to attract outside engineers/producers to your space I could maybe see how having an Unfairchild or something similar would be attractive? Sean makes a very good point, that $40 an hour sounds good as long as it’s taking you less than an hour to handle the entire thing and you’re actually booking those enquiries. If your going to base the decision on this as a revenue stream make sure your actually going to generate the revenue you think you will based on the actual time and effort your going to put in for each transaction. Walked plenty of deals others thought were a big pay day till you did a real deep dive on the time envolved. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on May 27, 2023 21:03:15 GMT -6
I have an SHMC and an Unfairchild with the accessory box. Neither will be a solution to greatness, they're just part of the picture. Plenty of people out there that don't dig what the Unfairchild does on the mixbus, but I do. The SHMC I put on guitars when I got it and I felt that it made a huge impact.
I guess my point is don't spend that kind of money on one box and expect it to take it to ten levels up. There are so many more pieces to put into place ahead of that kind of purchase.
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Post by jmoose on May 27, 2023 22:43:11 GMT -6
There's a long and storied history of local studies everywhere seeking to take over a market through endless bottom-rate deals, and some at least used to seem to be the busiest because of it. They all burn out and vanish, the longest running seem to top out at 2 years. There's an equally long history of people who either exaggerated or outright fabricated their credits... Like, I can legitimately say I recorded Moby & cashed that check. Spent two days with the man and put a mic in front of him 20 years ago. But I don't really put that one out there cause it's kinda stupid. He spent two days at my shop doing radio tags. Hi I'm Moby and your listening to 92.3 k rok This is Moby for wkrp... keep it classy Cincinnati Really not the same thing as working on one of his albums. |
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