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Post by christopher on May 7, 2023 11:53:21 GMT -6
I’m thinking of doing some DIY projects, wondering if I could save money by not using a differential I/O and just attaching direct to unbalanced inserts on the console? I’m thinking for compressors or possibly anything else. Anyone tried this?
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Post by msamper on May 7, 2023 12:03:10 GMT -6
Sure... why not? There are many consoles out there with "only" unbalanced insert points and they usually work fine if the cable lenghts are kept within a reasonable range.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 7, 2023 12:14:30 GMT -6
In most cases, your probably still need some type of output stage. The thing is changing the output stage from balanced to unbalanced is probably going to cost as much if not more.
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Post by svart on May 8, 2023 7:55:32 GMT -6
Depends on the I/O stage type.
Transformers are easy. Ground the other signal pin on both input and output.
Opamps are more complicated. Ground the other signal pin on the input. Leave the unused output floating or ground it through a resistor equal to the impedance the other output sees. (you'll have to see if it makes any difference because some active outputs care, some don't.)
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Post by paulnajar on May 9, 2023 2:33:36 GMT -6
The inserts on my Cranborne Audio 500Adat’s are unbalanced and I regularly use them to insert balanced outboard gear. Being unbalanced they are -6dB compared to the +24 reference level of the balanced IO on many devices but as long as you watch you gains I haven’t noticed any issues with using them. I tend to only use them when mixing. Not tracking.
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Post by christopher on May 9, 2023 11:56:30 GMT -6
Very good points, thanks guys. After I posted I tried to lookup any schematics with unbalanced outs and was surprised to find, there was a small purist push toward unbalanced in the early 2000’s. And apparently inspired by mastering guys that would often use unbalanced, because short cable paths. To me I wonder if it was more likely due to tape already has a heavy duty iron fingerprint, Transformerless+tape is still a thick, dense sound. And since they used to bypass transformers for a cleaner tone starting in the 70s, unbalanced was probably the way most people bypassed them? I’d imagine mastering desiring lowest distortion for certain eras? I guess I need to read more on engineering. I found my old copy of sound engineer handbook, has a lot of reference stuff in there, I saw a section on different ways to hookup ICs. Seems relevant to what you guys mentioned
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Post by drumsound on May 9, 2023 15:22:41 GMT -6
I have an (apparently) unbalanced (or at least -10) 500 series box with 14/" and TT I/O if anyone is looking.
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Post by plinker on May 9, 2023 21:37:12 GMT -6
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 10, 2023 11:04:11 GMT -6
Yeah but in the end is it cheaper to design build a daughter board, experiment and tune for each circuit you’re going to encounter? Then there is the simple fact the design of the original balanced output design might be part of the Sonics your chasing in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 11:17:13 GMT -6
Very good points, thanks guys. After I posted I tried to lookup any schematics with unbalanced outs and was surprised to find, there was a small purist push toward unbalanced in the early 2000’s. And apparently inspired by mastering guys that would often use unbalanced, because short cable paths. To me I wonder if it was more likely due to tape already has a heavy duty iron fingerprint, Transformerless+tape is still a thick, dense sound. And since they used to bypass transformers for a cleaner tone starting in the 70s, unbalanced was probably the way most people bypassed them? I’d imagine mastering desiring lowest distortion for certain eras? I guess I need to read more on engineering. I found my old copy of sound engineer handbook, has a lot of reference stuff in there, I saw a section on different ways to hookup ICs. Seems relevant to what you guys mentioned Most mastering guys massively distort the signal now. Output buffers and transformers don't do jack next to PCM limiters and clippers. Hysteresis from input and output transformers might even make the master cleaner from the bad limiter distorting less of the signal over time. |
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