|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 18, 2023 9:21:01 GMT -6
Hey All,
I want to use Bluetooth earbuds and speakers to detect potential downstream issues in masters, because sometimes clients have playback issues that can't be replicated in studio monitors, and Bluetooth is involved.
"Airfloil" looks perfect, but I've been trying for days, with their tech support, to get to work with Pro Tools, and I'm about ready to give up.
"Listento" looks good but it's a subscription, and $99/year over the next 10 years, well... I hate subscriptions... Only if I have to...
Does anyone know of other options?
Google isn't much help.
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Post by teejay on Apr 18, 2023 9:30:23 GMT -6
This may be oversimplistic, but can't you just pair your BT buds and speakers directly with your Mac and use its internal audio settings?
|
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 18, 2023 10:04:59 GMT -6
This may be oversimplistic, but can't you just pair your BT buds and speakers directly with your Mac and use its internal audio settings? Maybe... From what I gather it's not that simple, hence the existence of apps like Airfoil which capture audio from DAWs, streaming apps, etc. and route it to Bluetooth or elsewhere... But I'll explore that... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2023 10:55:34 GMT -6
The problem is probably not Bluetooth. Bluetooth just streams lossy codecs. You can use the Sonnox Pro-Codec and Codec Toolbox plugins to audition lossy codecs in real time. This is probably not the issue if your master isn’t clipping the lossy codecs in general. If it is, leave a db of true peak headroom or so.
The more likely issues are either your masters are adding distortion to their mixes that they’re complaining about or your monitoring isn’t revealing issues that need to be fixed with their mixes.
The solution is to use cleaner equipment and plugins and ditch speakers that lie through excessive processing and poor crossovers. Genelecs, Neumann K&H, and Kiis for examples are more heavily processed internally than many active speakers with electronic displays on the back. Then there are the good speakers that will play everything back like ATCs and this crops in much lower market brands too. Issues might not seem so severe in those and they can play back mixes that will crap out consumer speakers and cheap Asian monkey coffin monitors. Why not get a pair of Auratone 5C or the more extended Fostex 6301?
|
|
|
|
Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Apr 18, 2023 11:40:30 GMT -6
Seem to recall that Heritage Audio had Bluetooth-enabled 500 series units. I think they have something called the RAM. Don’t know how it works, but I recall there was Bluetooth involved, and the possibility of multiple “inputs”
|
|
|
|
Post by teejay on Apr 18, 2023 12:12:17 GMT -6
Seem to recall that Heritage Audio had Bluetooth-enabled 500 series units. I think they have something called the RAM. Don’t know how it works, but I recall there was Bluetooth involved, and the possibility of multiple “inputs” Looks like Bluetooth input only...so streaming from a BT device to the RAM, but not from the RAM to BT earbuds or speakers. |
|
|
|
Post by bentley on Apr 18, 2023 13:15:02 GMT -6
I stick an AirFly on the headphone jack of my interface (X8P) and pair it with my AirPods. AirFly Transmitter
|
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Apr 18, 2023 15:52:54 GMT -6
Soudsource is the only one I've used that seems to be able to grab Pro Tools HDX output and mirror that to wherever you want(bluetooth headphones included). It may be worth demoing for you: rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/ |
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Apr 18, 2023 22:24:50 GMT -6
I would think this now possible with the Avid Aux I/O features if you're on the newer version on Protools and on Ultimate software plus maybe use of soundflower?
|
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 19, 2023 7:41:07 GMT -6
The problem is probably not Bluetooth. Bluetooth just streams lossy codecs. You can use the Sonnox Pro-Codec and Codec Toolbox plugins to audition lossy codecs in real time. This is probably not the issue if your master isn’t clipping the lossy codecs in general. If it is, leave a db of true peak headroom or so. The more likely issues are either your masters are adding distortion to their mixes that they’re complaining about or your monitoring isn’t revealing issues that need to be fixed with their mixes. The solution is to use cleaner equipment and plugins and ditch speakers that lie through excessive processing and poor crossovers. Genelecs, Neumann K&H, and Kiis for examples are more heavily processed internally than many active speakers with electronic displays on the back. Then there are the good speakers that will play everything back like ATCs and this crops in much lower market brands too. Issues might not seem so severe in those and they can play back mixes that will crap out consumer speakers and cheap Asian monkey coffin monitors. Why not get a pair of Auratone 5C or the more extended Fostex 6301? Bluetooth is it's own lossy codec. It compresses the data on top of whatever came before it. But there are a number of different Bluetooth codecs, so it's a moving target. This isn't a clipping problem, and my monitoring is fine. I'm narrowing it down to Bluetooth in some cases and consumer speakers in some cases not being able to handle LF heavy tracks that are harmonically rich beyond a certain point. That's easy to engineer around, but it would be nice to be able to hear it in studio first. Bluetooth earbuds are turning out to be a good "tell", as I've been able to test with them using Airfoil with Snapper and iTunes, and I can hear issues that are inaudible on studio monitors or wired headphones. Clients report the most audible issues when listening in Airpods. But I can't get Airfoil to stream directly from a PT session. Yet. Thanks for the help! |
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 19, 2023 7:45:22 GMT -6
Soudsource is the only one I've used that seems to be able to grab Pro Tools HDX output and mirror that to wherever you want(bluetooth headphones included). It may be worth demoing for you: rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/Thanks. Yeah, Soundsource and Airfoil are from the same company and neither of them will capture audio from PT the way they say they should. 'Still going back and forth with their tech support... |
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 19, 2023 7:47:54 GMT -6
I would think this now possible with the Avid Aux I/O features if you're on the newer version on Protools and on Ultimate software plus maybe use of soundflower? Yes. This is what I'm coming to - to use PT's Audiobridge routing to Airfoil to the Mac's Bluetooth. Or it may turn out to be possible to skip Airfoil and go Audiobridge straight to Bluetooth... I need to figure out how to add Audiobridge sends in PT I/O Setup... I think it should do the trick. |
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Apr 19, 2023 9:06:42 GMT -6
I would think this now possible with the Avid Aux I/O features if you're on the newer version on Protools and on Ultimate software plus maybe use of soundflower? Yes. This is what I'm coming to - to use PT's Audiobridge routing to Airfoil to the Mac's Bluetooth. Or it may turn out to be possible to skip Airfoil and go Audiobridge straight to Bluetooth... I need to figure out how to add Audiobridge sends in PT I/O Setup... I think it should do the trick. Took me a bit to figure it out too. Some good videos from avid on it: |
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 19, 2023 9:12:51 GMT -6
Yes. This is what I'm coming to - to use PT's Audiobridge routing to Airfoil to the Mac's Bluetooth. Or it may turn out to be possible to skip Airfoil and go Audiobridge straight to Bluetooth... I need to figure out how to add Audiobridge sends in PT I/O Setup... I think it should do the trick. Took me a bit to figure it out too. Some good videos from avid on it: Thanks! And I just found this which takes it all the way through to Airpods using Quicktime: I think I should have this up and running today! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 11:01:28 GMT -6
The problem is probably not Bluetooth. Bluetooth just streams lossy codecs. You can use the Sonnox Pro-Codec and Codec Toolbox plugins to audition lossy codecs in real time. This is probably not the issue if your master isn’t clipping the lossy codecs in general. If it is, leave a db of true peak headroom or so. The more likely issues are either your masters are adding distortion to their mixes that they’re complaining about or your monitoring isn’t revealing issues that need to be fixed with their mixes. The solution is to use cleaner equipment and plugins and ditch speakers that lie through excessive processing and poor crossovers. Genelecs, Neumann K&H, and Kiis for examples are more heavily processed internally than many active speakers with electronic displays on the back. Then there are the good speakers that will play everything back like ATCs and this crops in much lower market brands too. Issues might not seem so severe in those and they can play back mixes that will crap out consumer speakers and cheap Asian monkey coffin monitors. Why not get a pair of Auratone 5C or the more extended Fostex 6301? Bluetooth is it's own lossy codec. It compresses the data on top of whatever came before it. But there are a number of different Bluetooth codecs, so it's a moving target. This isn't a clipping problem, and my monitoring is fine. I'm narrowing it down to Bluetooth in some cases and consumer speakers in some cases not being able to handle LF heavy tracks that are harmonically rich beyond a certain point. That's easy to engineer around, but it would be nice to be able to hear it in studio first. Bluetooth earbuds are turning out to be a good "tell", as I've been able to test with them using Airfoil with Snapper and iTunes, and I can hear issues that are inaudible on studio monitors or wired headphones. Clients report the most audible issues when listening in Airpods. But I can't get Airfoil to stream directly from a PT session. Yet. Thanks for the help! You are handicapped in not being able to make it sound better timbre wise in non telephone frequencies despite sounding worse dynamics / balance wise to make it loud. AirPods use 256 kbps AAC on Apple products. A2DP is just a steaming protocol. AAC be auditioned in real time with Plugin Alliance Streamliner or Sonnox Pro-Codec. SBC is the main Bluetooth codec though and I don’t know how to audition in real time but it is built around telephone frequency and is worse than both Fraunhofer and LAME MP3 codecs. All lossy codecs divide the audio into bands and SBC uses 4-8 sub bands and was developed for telephone headsets while Fraunhofer MP3 has 32 bands and was made with Suzanne Vega and Tracy Chapman 🤯🔫 SBC bands emphasize telephone 300 hz to 3.4 khz frequency range in quality. Take out everything fat or punchy that distorts under 300hz. That’s not just bass and kick; things that distort and overshoot snare too like API equipment. Take out stuff that distorts highs that can emphasize sizzle and sear. They might make things cut better but that will artifact heavily and high frequency artifacts already in the mix that might not be a big deal on cd might artifact on Bluetooth or some pirated mp3 meets YouTube codec. Don’t add as much air that will increase audible artifacts but that might be a balancing game between keeping clarity through the codec and artifacts. Also if you’re using any sort of preempahsis eq before hitting dynamics processors or sidechains to keep the kick away and bringing the Low end back in, the transients might be too much for the codec. A lot of bad clipping heard on vocals on many bad pop masters are just the uncompressed content being distorted by dynamics processor and being raised up by the makeup gain with dynamics intact , not the transients just being clipped off in brief crispy moments. |
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 19, 2023 14:07:36 GMT -6
Bluetooth is it's own lossy codec. It compresses the data on top of whatever came before it. But there are a number of different Bluetooth codecs, so it's a moving target. This isn't a clipping problem, and my monitoring is fine. I'm narrowing it down to Bluetooth in some cases and consumer speakers in some cases not being able to handle LF heavy tracks that are harmonically rich beyond a certain point. That's easy to engineer around, but it would be nice to be able to hear it in studio first. Bluetooth earbuds are turning out to be a good "tell", as I've been able to test with them using Airfoil with Snapper and iTunes, and I can hear issues that are inaudible on studio monitors or wired headphones. Clients report the most audible issues when listening in Airpods. But I can't get Airfoil to stream directly from a PT session. Yet. Thanks for the help! You are handicapped in not being able to make it sound better timbre wise in non telephone frequencies despite sounding worse dynamics / balance wise to make it loud. AirPods use 256 kbps AAC on Apple products. A2DP is just a steaming protocol. AAC be auditioned in real time with Plugin Alliance Streamliner or Sonnox Pro-Codec. SBC is the main Bluetooth codec though and I don’t know how to audition in real time but it is built around telephone frequency and is worse than both Fraunhofer and LAME MP3 codecs. All lossy codecs divide the audio into bands and SBC uses 4-8 sub bands and was developed for telephone headsets while Fraunhofer MP3 has 32 bands and was made with Suzanne Vega and Tracy Chapman 🤯🔫 SBC bands emphasize telephone 300 hz to 3.4 khz frequency range in quality. Take out everything fat or punchy that distorts under 300hz. That’s not just bass and kick; things that distort and overshoot snare too like API equipment. Take out stuff that distorts highs that can emphasize sizzle and sear. They might make things cut better but that will artifact heavily and high frequency artifacts already in the mix that might not be a big deal on cd might artifact on Bluetooth or some pirated mp3 meets YouTube codec. Don’t add as much air that will increase audible artifacts but that might be a balancing game between keeping clarity through the codec and artifacts. Also if you’re using any sort of preempahsis eq before hitting dynamics processors or sidechains to keep the kick away and bringing the Low end back in, the transients might be too much for the codec. A lot of bad clipping heard on vocals on many bad pop masters are just the uncompressed content being distorted by dynamics processor and being raised up by the makeup gain with dynamics intact , not the transients just being clipped off in brief crispy moments. Thanks! Good to know more detail on how Bluetooth can cause issues. I shall audition Bluetooth in real time by using actual Bluetooth! |
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 19, 2023 15:49:31 GMT -6
I just got Airfoil to capture audio from PT by using "Pro Tools Audio Bridge 2-A" as a send from my session. Now Airfoil can route from PT, iTunes, Spotify, etc, to Bluetooth or any connected output device. For the record, in case anyone needs to know someday.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2023 18:01:32 GMT -6
You can’t really compensate for a lossy codec. That’s like compensating for a customer’s blown car speakers or back ported speakers backed up directly to a wall. I once had a guy checking in an old Renault car and all the low end of the kicks was ordered removed in revisions.
|
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 21, 2023 9:07:38 GMT -6
When clients complain about crackling, I HAVE to compensate for it somehow, and prevent it from recurring. To do that it's helpful to be able to hear it in studio. So that's what I have set about accomplishing, and it's working! Otherwise I believe in letting lossy be lossy. Thanks for the useful info!
|
|
|
|
Post by Darren Boling on Apr 21, 2023 14:56:18 GMT -6
I see you really don't want to do the sub (who does really?) but Listento has been my answer. Stream to anything and test how you want, laptop, phone, earbuds, car, etc. while still in session and not having to export first. I found it especially helpful for ana.... eh, particular clients that like having control.
|
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 22, 2023 8:44:06 GMT -6
I see you really don't want to do the sub (who does really?) but Listento has been my answer. Stream to anything and test how you want, laptop, phone, earbuds, car, etc. while still in session and not having to export first. I found it especially helpful for ana.... eh, particular clients that like having control. Absolutely. $1k over the next ten years? That's just greedy. I got the same functionality from Airfoil for one $35 payment. And their tech support was very attentive. |
|
|
|
Post by Darren Boling on Apr 22, 2023 14:30:57 GMT -6
I see you really don't want to do the sub (who does really?) but Listento has been my answer. Stream to anything and test how you want, laptop, phone, earbuds, car, etc. while still in session and not having to export first. I found it especially helpful for ana.... eh, particular clients that like having control. Absolutely. $1k over the next ten years? That's just greedy. I got the same functionality from Airfoil for one $35 payment. And their tech support was very attentive. Well, I'll have to check that out! I seem to get the thing that works for me and forget to look around at options now and then, hadn't even heard of Airfoil. |
|
