Speakers that make you work for it

I had a similar thing happen with Sweetwater a couple years ago over a much smaller purchase than monitors. That was my last conversation with my Sweetwater "Sales Engineer." I have no intention of buying from them again.

I could most likely still assist in a sale.

What I mean is that I've worked on monitors that were super detailed and also super euphoric, incredibly "smooth" for lack of a better term.  Speakers where everything kind of sounded good no matter what.  And other speakers that were brutally honest, where you had to work hard to get things to sound right but once you did you were dialed in and things translated great.   The type of monitors where if the vocal was 2db to loud and snare 2db too quiet it screamed at you.  I know that's incredibly subjective, but for me (and the way I hear things) I prefer the latter.  

I'm looking into the kh310, thanks.  And also the new MK II kh120's.  Trying to figure out a convenient way to audition them at the moment.

Dan needs to show us on the doll where Neumann hurt him.. because damn that grudge seems to run deep..lol

But my experience is the opposite. My Neumann kh310s are great. No hint of distortion or whatever.

I stopped listening TO the speakers and started listening THROUGH them and my mixes have never been better.

I’m using ATC scm12 pro. I’m very happy with them and find they translate well. I know what you mean about some monitors sounding fantastic and impressive regardless of source material. The ATC tell me when the mix isn’t right, that’s why I like them. I’m also a fan of sealed cabinets.

I haven't had a chance to finish/master a song yet, busy with non-music life stuff but I'm pretty close.  I'm encouraged by the NDH-30 detail and low end.  I do use Realphones correction with the NDH-30 profile as bare there's a noticeable 1k bump.  I guess that's what they call mid-forward but I wouldn't want to mix into that.  The corrected profile I feel will get me a done mix pretty quickly.  Preliminary rough mixes I've done I haven't needed to touch much so there's that...I like them.

Soft mids are went I went 3 way. A two way monitor simply can't compete in the mids.

I'm with jmoose in that I'd rather mix on a krk rokit 5 that sounds like a pushed, woofy thing about to fall apart than something that sounds mega smeary that makes you unsure of your fader moves. You can always clean up the eq a bit on headphones or a more detailed speaker. bold vs subtle audiophile bs speakers that make everything sound okay. atcs just wallop you with mids in a good way and have some of the only good mid domes around

I've found its always best to shop local if at all possible... even if it means a few hours driving. Aren't you near Portland or something? There's probably an ATC dealer somewhere close you could arrange a demo with? 

In the northeast, and especially new england both PAD & Sonic Circus are excellent old school shops. Not sure what either carries for monitors but they do ship!  

Buzzmer to hear that response from sweetwater. Maybe its just your "dude" there? I'll say mines excellent. Absolutely knows what he's talking about... never gives me a BS answer when he doesn't and even better knows not to call me. Which he never does. I've had the 'useless' clowns and yeah, at that point its just a catalog shop. If you or anyone wants his extension drop me a message. 

FWIW in the few times I've returned things to SW (& most other retailers) unless its discussed before pulling the trigger return shipping costs = you've paid round trip freight and maybe a 10% restock fee. Not too bad on a 500 series module or mic but monitors? Those are big & heavy. Round trip shipping is gonna be real coin.

Svart, did you design some speaker at some point, what happened to that project?

what’s crazy it’s that I was literally just asking for the restocking and shipping cost so I could budget for it…and he still said no! Lol.

Anyway, not worth my time or mental energy to make a fuss. I’m not even upset. Just thought it was weird.

I did, both 3 way and two way.  I never finished either one.  It's one of those things where I spent tons of money and time and just lost sight of what I was trying to accomplish.  It was at that point where I had to make the decision to keep spending money and time on the project, or just buy something ready made.

I ended up just buying the KH310's.  They're smaller and sound as good or better than I had expected either of my projects to turn out.  Using analog crossovers, I had to make the cabinet volume on the 3 ways maybe 2x what the KH310's are and that's just huge compared to my desk size.  The smaller 2 way speakers were ported but I could never get my head around the metal tweeter sound either.  

Turns out I just don't like metal tweeters at all.  They have ridiculous breakup nodes that end up sounding screechy unless you do what Amphion has done and use nutty low passing on them, which ends up sounding muffled and strange to me. 

The 3 ways suffered a similar fate with the midrange too, couldn't ever get the crossover between mid and tweet to sound right due to the same breakup on the midrange.  

They say metal coned drivers have low cone distortion, but nobody ever seems to tell you that you have to do tons of crossover tricks to get them to sit right with other drivers and those crossover tricks cause all kinds of phase/time issues.

I considered going to DSP crossovers which would allow me to adjust time/phase for the drivers and would allow me to design something that works, but then I'd need amplifiers and all that jazz too and all this was just too much to take on for something that I was only really interested in the outcome.