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Post by indiehouse on Mar 28, 2023 16:48:01 GMT -6
So lately I’ve been silent recording my amps with a Suhr Reactive Load IR. Seems the sweet spot is narrow with my amps. Lots of fizzy distortion that I can minimize with mic’ing my amp. But, you know, in the world outside of my dream studio, I’ve got small children. Has anyone found success recording an attenuated amp?
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Post by sirthought on Mar 28, 2023 17:12:30 GMT -6
I have. I wanted a certain level of gain without blasting everyone in the room away. I was satisfied.
If the player is wearing headphones they can hear things like they usually do within the context of the song being built.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 28, 2023 17:14:24 GMT -6
I purchased 2 x Rivera "Rock Crushers" When recording final tracks, if only attenuated a few DB's these things work & sound great. More than that, not so much.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 28, 2023 17:19:48 GMT -6
I play low watt amps anyways, 20 or less, but when I think about dialing in my amps sweet spot, definitely going to need to shave off more than a couple db’s.
Looking at a Tone King Ironman II or mini.
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 28, 2023 17:27:40 GMT -6
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Post by timcampbell on Mar 28, 2023 17:42:33 GMT -6
I would highly recommend the THD Hotplate. They sound like a real amp. There is also the Carl Martin Ampster
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Post by LazyOldSun on Mar 28, 2023 19:48:48 GMT -6
Fryette Power Station PS2, perfect for non master volume amps. Unlike typical attenuators it’s a tube amp that is fed by a built in reactive load. Sounds great at low volumes.
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Post by howie on Mar 28, 2023 20:08:07 GMT -6
I play low watt amps anyways, 20 or less, but when I think about dialing in my amps sweet spot, definitely going to need to shave off more than a couple db’s. Looking at a Tone King Ironman II or mini. I have a 5 watt Tone King Gremlin amp - it has a 12" speaker and it has a built in Iron Man attenuater.
I'm recording in an apartment - and I use a ribbon mic. I always attenuate - lately it's been 3 clicks down (-15dB) for a Tele - and for a Les Paul (with P-90's.). Attunater -15db -not just a few db's.
I don't even know how loud this amp can get at full volume - with no attenuation. I may never find out. I use the amp's rhythm channel only - as the lead channel does not suit me. I do have a couple of pedals after the amps attenuation that I tweak volume/gain a bit. I used a Strymon Iridium amp modeler - before I got this Gremlin amp. I prefer the recordings I get from the miked Gremlin. (Though the Iridium was convenient.)
The Gremlin lives in the closet with a lot of softening material about it.
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Post by mythundreamt on Mar 29, 2023 9:40:02 GMT -6
I mic attenuated amps all the time when tracking guitars at night, and have small kids sleeping in the house while doing so. It’s certainly not the same tone as when unattenuated, and I have tried every attenuator one can name.
Usable though? Yes. Better than Ox/Iridium/Kemper? Totally.
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Post by mythundreamt on Mar 29, 2023 9:48:03 GMT -6
Fryette Power Station PS2, perfect for non master volume amps. Unlike typical attenuators it’s a tube amp that is fed by a built in reactive load. Sounds great at low volumes. The thing is the Power Station isn’t an attenuator at all, it’s a reamper. Sonically it is quite pleasing but it changes the power amp footprint of the tone, which can be quite ok or completely unacceptable depending on which amp you are capturing. The Webers (I have three somehow) and Hotplate are pretty old technology that lead to some noticeable high frequency loss. The torpedo load and especially Ox seem to be better about keeping the tone intact. I use those the most. But when no one’s home and I can crank the amps without a care, those recordings are the most effortless still.
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Post by Ward on Mar 29, 2023 10:11:06 GMT -6
Been doing this for 30 years now! The OG Sholtz power soak pair still work but I more often use a couple of Doctor power brakes now.
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Post by LazyOldSun on Mar 30, 2023 21:23:24 GMT -6
Fryette Power Station PS2, perfect for non master volume amps. Unlike typical attenuators it’s a tube amp that is fed by a built in reactive load. Sounds great at low volumes. The thing is the Power Station isn’t an attenuator at all, it’s a reamper. Sonically it is quite pleasing but it changes the power amp footprint of the tone, which can be quite ok or completely unacceptable depending on which amp you are capturing. The PS2 doesn't change the power amp footprint of my 63 ac30 in any noticeable way and the ac30 is all about power amp breakup. I love this thing and wish it existed 20-30 years ago. Another feature is the fx loop which is nice for adding a spring reverb or bricasti to an old non-reverb amp.
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Post by anders on Mar 30, 2023 23:50:49 GMT -6
I'm running the Weber Mass Lite to knock off a little. It has a separate treble control, so it is possible to find the right amount of fizz. At un-radical settings the amp sounds a lot like itself. At whisper settings a little more is lost.
A point regarding the sound of miced amps is that speaker breakup and cabinet resonances are part of the tone. That will not happen at bedroom levels. So no matter the quality of the attenuator, it will not be exactly the same. But it is also easy to be fooled by the ear's response curve and the perception of trouser legs flapping to feel that an attenuated amp is more lacking than it actually is.
A thing I like though, is recording an attenuated amp, but tapping off a clean signal from the guitar to a separate track. The attenuated amp will be more manageable volume-wise at the time of tracking, and gives an OK approximation of the tone. Then; when the final take is actually there, comped, timed, and ready, the Quantize Locked clean signal that has been edited together with the attenuated guitar can be reamped at full tilt. The upside to this approach (apart from not having the full tilt amp going through an entire session), is that when you reamp the clean edited guitar signal, all effects, reverb, room reflections etc will be post edit, so you rid yourself of lots of stretch artefacts, chopped reverb tails, etc. You might also have more space for setting up the amp, room mics, etc. Plus, a clean guitar signal is a lot quicker to edit visually.
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Post by mythundreamt on Mar 31, 2023 10:06:14 GMT -6
The thing is the Power Station isn’t an attenuator at all, it’s a reamper. Sonically it is quite pleasing but it changes the power amp footprint of the tone, which can be quite ok or completely unacceptable depending on which amp you are capturing. The PS2 doesn't change the power amp footprint of my 63 ac30 in any noticeable way and the ac30 is all about power amp breakup. I love this thing and wish it existed 20-30 years ago. Another feature is the fx loop which is nice for adding a spring reverb or bricasti to an old non-reverb amp. Does yours have a loud fan?
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Post by Ward on Mar 31, 2023 10:27:36 GMT -6
Has anyone yet mentioned using a Hughes and Kettner Red Box? Amp out into the redbox, throughput to an attenuator turned down to minimum and into a speaker box . . . XLR output from the redbox into your preamp or recording interface directly
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Post by bikescene on Mar 31, 2023 13:36:53 GMT -6
The DIY route might not be for everyone, but I have found the Type M2 Attenuator project over at the Marshall Amp Forum very useful. It’s costs about about $100 for an enclosure, inductor, wirewound resistors, and jacks. It’s a reactive attenuator based on the impedance curve of the designer’s Marshall setup, but I think it works well with my Tweed-ish Fender circuits. No unexpected distorted artifacts in the cleans out of my low watt amps (Pro Junior, Tweed Champ clone, Tweed Deluxe clone, Winfield Typhoon). I use the Suhr Reactive Load when I need absolute silence, but prefer to mic my own cabs.
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Post by LazyOldSun on Mar 31, 2023 22:06:56 GMT -6
The PS2 doesn't change the power amp footprint of my 63 ac30 in any noticeable way and the ac30 is all about power amp breakup. I love this thing and wish it existed 20-30 years ago. Another feature is the fx loop which is nice for adding a spring reverb or bricasti to an old non-reverb amp. Does yours have a loud fan? I never really paid attention to the fan as any amp is much louder even at low volumes, but I just turned it on and would say it's a little louder than a Glyph HD fan. Thankfully I don't need thePS2 on all the time and use SSD's for everything but backups.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Apr 2, 2023 17:16:15 GMT -6
I have about 8 x Red Boxes, used them when I was doing live sound for a few touring acts. Way back when they were first released, they were the SHIT~! Fabulous control when mixed in with the live mic'ed amp. And the same use in the studio.
But that said, a few years later, H & K released their little 1 x watt amps! The Blues Master, The Cream Machine, The Metal Master, (my least favorite) and the BATT, Bass Advanced Tube Technology.
Still have one of each!
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Post by niklas1073 on Apr 3, 2023 1:07:29 GMT -6
Very interesting topic. I believe the speaker break up, and behavior plays a surprisingly big role in the sound. It’s never the power stage alone. And though I’m sure there are amps, sound preferences and styles where it might not differ that much, attenuated or not if the sound is within a speakers clean spectrum , I do feel that in the levels where I covet attenuation, it kills the tone. That thin line where the combination of power section and speaker saturation in sync creates the bliss is narrow. So personally I have come to the conclusion that I always try to facilitate playing with the volume it takes to get where I don’t need to compromise. I track with rather loud vintage amps, hiwatt , ac30, orange etc.often cranked, but have been able to make it work.
I have not used the UA oxbox ever, but a few friends of mine swear by it and feel they can with the speaker emulation come close enough to be satisfied and actually be able to do it bedroom while the others are sleeping 😜. Another gear a friend of mine recently acquired was the Ua Ruby that he was super exited about. And hearing it made me really impressed as an alternative that sounds great with no volume issues AND when you don’t want to deal with the ever changing erratic behavior of vintage amps. So at some point I might look into either for an option when ”loud” is not possible. Any of you guys have experience with the options for lowering volume?
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Post by mythundreamt on Apr 3, 2023 11:58:14 GMT -6
Does yours have a loud fan? I never really paid attention to the fan as any amp is much louder even at low volumes, but I just turned it on and would say it's a little louder than a Glyph HD fan. Thankfully I don't need thePS2 on all the time and use SSD's for everything but backups. Ok thanks. I ask because the one I tried for a bit had an unusably loud fan constantly on.. almost felt like it was defective. Someday I should try one again.
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