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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 23, 2023 14:41:27 GMT -6
You know what: I just remembered a product that might be interesting for you. I'd completely forgotten about it. It's the YoloLiv YoloBox. It's a bit more expensive than the ATEM Mini Pro, but has a bunch of interesting features, like the ability to stream directly via WiFi, Ethernet, or via 4G cellular. You can literally put a SIM card in the thing and operate on a cellular network. It has an integrated screen (I mean, it's super small, but still...) and a bunch of other things. I know one guy who's used one and he liked it.
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Post by jmoose on Mar 23, 2023 19:16:07 GMT -6
Ok, that didn't take long. Paging the other mark williams Although the streaming on the Wifi wasn't too bad in my tests last night, the consistency of the camera feed over Wifi was not perfect. Actually, it was fine until we went to split screen mode and then it got pretty herky jerky. That's a problem because we don't have an operator (this is just me and my band) so split screen is something I was intending to lean on. That's not too shocking & the reason why everyone is saying use wired connections and two separate computers... one audio one video. Wireless is too glitchy to be stable in do or die broadcast situation. Plus all this junk running live can be very CPU/RAM intensive. Don't have much to add right now after reading the other posts but I'll say I did look heavily into this about 2 years ago and for various reasons decided it was not worth the effort. Far too many roadblocks and I'm not sure the future, or at least immediate future of music is live streaming. When we catch a feed from Coachella or Bonnaroo... something like that they have fully staffed dedicated control rooms / remote trucks that'll rival anything anywhere. That's a whole other level from what the average person can do. I have a strong, deep background in live production & remote recording so the tech problems weren't too hard for me to sort... at least in theory anyway. What killed the whole idea for me, and if its only your personal band possibly not an issue? Rights & clearances. Legal crap. Couldn't get around that. And really the more people I talked with... different artists, labels etc the more questions were raised that I didn't have answers for. Its not like this is a "get rich scheme" but everyone seemed to be counting eyeballs and looking for their cut of absolute zero. There were also some who weren't interested at all citing other poor experiences (glitchy feeds, nobody actually watching etc). Eventually I realized that, unlike a Bonnaroo feed with established artists & corporate sponsors blah blah... that it'd be a labor of love and I can think of a hundred other ways to burn money that'd be way more satisfying. That's the other side of this. The music business is still a business. On some level things have to make some sorta sense.
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Post by prene1 on Mar 24, 2023 6:22:23 GMT -6
I have the black magic atem iso for that line of work. It’s self contained. I stick my ssd via usb and control it via Ethernet. And it has its own CDN to stream. Works beautifully.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 24, 2023 11:17:55 GMT -6
Ok, that didn't take long. Paging the other mark williams Although the streaming on the Wifi wasn't too bad in my tests last night, the consistency of the camera feed over Wifi was not perfect. Actually, it was fine until we went to split screen mode and then it got pretty herky jerky. That's a problem because we don't have an operator (this is just me and my band) so split screen is something I was intending to lean on. That's not too shocking & the reason why everyone is saying use wired connections and two separate computers... one audio one video. Wireless is too glitchy to be stable in do or die broadcast situation. Plus all this junk running live can be very CPU/RAM intensive. Don't have much to add right now after reading the other posts but I'll say I did look heavily into this about 2 years ago and for various reasons decided it was not worth the effort. Far too many roadblocks and I'm not sure the future, or at least immediate future of music is live streaming. When we catch a feed from Coachella or Bonnaroo... something like that they have fully staffed dedicated control rooms / remote trucks that'll rival anything anywhere. That's a whole other level from what the average person can do. I have a strong, deep background in live production & remote recording so the tech problems weren't too hard for me to sort... at least in theory anyway. What killed the whole idea for me, and if its only your personal band possibly not an issue? Rights & clearances. Legal crap. Couldn't get around that. And really the more people I talked with... different artists, labels etc the more questions were raised that I didn't have answers for. Its not like this is a "get rich scheme" but everyone seemed to be counting eyeballs and looking for their cut of absolute zero. There were also some who weren't interested at all citing other poor experiences (glitchy feeds, nobody actually watching etc). Eventually I realized that, unlike a Bonnaroo feed with established artists & corporate sponsors blah blah... that it'd be a labor of love and I can think of a hundred other ways to burn money that'd be way more satisfying. That's the other side of this. The music business is still a business. On some level things have to make some sorta sense. Interesting insights. Here's my take. I think when you have a new medium like this, people usually make the mistake of trying to take the old product and just fit it to the new medium. Kind of like how in the early days of cinema it was basically a theater production but with cameras. It wasn't until television forced their hand that film makers got serious about what they could with the medium and then you started seeing more creative editing, method acting, etc etc. This is similar. Live streaming sucks because what we're seeing is usually designed to be seen in person. It's not right for the medium. I don't have the answer here but I know that the answer is not "take a show and watch it on your phone." So I have the advantage of complete control over my project and I don't need to find a financial justification. I'm just looking for content that is potentially interesting. And it happens that the social sites are really pushing streaming in their algorithms for whatever reason. Our crappy "test" stream we did on our FB page a few days ago (literally just us testing stuff) got 4x the visibility of our typical posts. They're pushing this stuff. So my idea is to kind of allow a fly on the wall type thing. Who knows if it's a good idea or not? But I personally really like bootlegs and rough recordings. The idea is kind of like what if we did a weekly version of something like the "Get Back" documentary. An actual rehearsal/writing session of an actual band but with really really good sound. (Yes, I know we're not the Beatles! Haha. But we do have a handful of krazy fans who will actually watch this stuff and I think it might be interesting enough even for non-fans to check it out long enough to remember our band name and maybe listen to a proper track.)
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 24, 2023 11:19:31 GMT -6
That's not too shocking & the reason why everyone is saying use wired connections and two separate computers... one audio one video. Wireless is too glitchy to be stable in do or die broadcast situation. Plus all this junk running live can be very CPU/RAM intensive. Don't have much to add right now after reading the other posts but I'll say I did look heavily into this about 2 years ago and for various reasons decided it was not worth the effort. Far too many roadblocks and I'm not sure the future, or at least immediate future of music is live streaming. When we catch a feed from Coachella or Bonnaroo... something like that they have fully staffed dedicated control rooms / remote trucks that'll rival anything anywhere. That's a whole other level from what the average person can do. I have a strong, deep background in live production & remote recording so the tech problems weren't too hard for me to sort... at least in theory anyway. What killed the whole idea for me, and if its only your personal band possibly not an issue? Rights & clearances. Legal crap. Couldn't get around that. And really the more people I talked with... different artists, labels etc the more questions were raised that I didn't have answers for. Its not like this is a "get rich scheme" but everyone seemed to be counting eyeballs and looking for their cut of absolute zero. There were also some who weren't interested at all citing other poor experiences (glitchy feeds, nobody actually watching etc). Eventually I realized that, unlike a Bonnaroo feed with established artists & corporate sponsors blah blah... that it'd be a labor of love and I can think of a hundred other ways to burn money that'd be way more satisfying. That's the other side of this. The music business is still a business. On some level things have to make some sorta sense. Interesting insights. Here's my take. I think when you have a new medium like this, people usually make the mistake of trying to take the old product and just fit it to the new medium. Kind of like how in the early days of cinema it was basically a theater production but with cameras. It wasn't until television forced their hand that film makers got serious about what they could with the medium and then you started seeing more creative editing, method acting, etc etc. This is similar. Live streaming sucks because what we're seeing is usually designed to be seen in person. It's not right for the medium. I don't have the answer here but I know that the answer is not "take a show and watch it on your phone." So I have the advantage of complete control over my project and I don't need to find a financial justification. I'm just looking for content that is potentially interesting. And it happens that the social sites are really pushing streaming in their algorithms for whatever reason. Our crappy "test" stream we did on our FB page a few days ago (literally just us testing stuff) got 4x the visibility of our typical posts. They're pushing this stuff. So my idea is to kind of allow a fly on the wall type thing. Who knows if it's a good idea or not? But I personally really like bootlegs and rough recordings. The idea is kind of like what if we did a weekly version of something like the "Get Back" documentary. An actual rehearsal/writing session of an actual band but with really really good sound. (Yes, I know we're not the Beatles! Haha. But we do have a handful of krazy fans who will actually watch this stuff and I think it might be interesting enough even for non-fans to check it out long enough to remember our band name and maybe listen to a proper track.) Oh one other thing... I record all our rehearsals off our console so, if this ever took off, we could also say "hey, if you liked anything you heard, let me know and I'll mix it down at 24 bit for you and send you an MP3."
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Post by RealNoob on Mar 24, 2023 15:11:28 GMT -6
We have used the ATEM Mini Pro and Mini Extreme as we added more cameras. I think we run the SDI version now with 4-5 cameras. For audio, we come off of the Midas M32 (stereo) to one of the cameras that has XLR ins. that is how you get around the 1/8 mini audio input. Works great. We also take wireless overlays from another computer. there is a bit of software that enables that. You can separately select where audio and video come from. Heck, you could have a camera sitting next to you and only use it for audio if it worked for your workflow. Ours is mounted in a small pelican case with an attached monitor. It is extremely portable and suits our mobile nature. The only difference with HDMI and SDI is distance. If the cams don't have SDI out, you can use HDMI to SDI converters. We may actually do that for a couple. www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemsdi
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Post by jmoose on Mar 24, 2023 15:29:13 GMT -6
Interesting insights. Here's my take. I think when you have a new medium like this, people usually make the mistake of trying to take the old product and just fit it to the new medium. Kind of like how in the early days of cinema it was basically a theater production but with cameras. It wasn't until television forced their hand that film makers got serious about what they could with the medium and then you started seeing more creative editing, method acting, etc etc. This is similar. Live streaming sucks because what we're seeing is usually designed to be seen in person. It's not right for the medium. I don't have the answer here but I know that the answer is not "take a show and watch it on your phone." So I have the advantage of complete control over my project and I don't need to find a financial justification. I'm just looking for content that is potentially interesting. And it happens that the social sites are really pushing streaming in their algorithms for whatever reason. Our crappy "test" stream we did on our FB page a few days ago (literally just us testing stuff) got 4x the visibility of our typical posts. They're pushing this stuff. So my idea is to kind of allow a fly on the wall type thing. Who knows if it's a good idea or not? But I personally really like bootlegs and rough recordings. The idea is kind of like what if we did a weekly version of something like the "Get Back" documentary. An actual rehearsal/writing session of an actual band but with really really good sound. (Yes, I know we're not the Beatles! Haha. But we do have a handful of krazy fans who will actually watch this stuff and I think it might be interesting enough even for non-fans to check it out long enough to remember our band name and maybe listen to a proper track.) I don't disagree with any of this. Not one bit. Live streaming "shows" is absolutely like the early theater / movie crossovers... I hadn't really thought of things that way but it makes perfect sense. So many of the livestreams I've watched have been... awkward. Most artists don't really know how to interact with an audience who isn't actually there. Some did. Not many. More later, gotta run.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 24, 2023 17:56:25 GMT -6
I definitely got some good use out of the atem and cameras shooting videos, but for me, streaming want the ticket. Video of your rehearsals though, even for personal improvement and working out your stage show is a great move.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 1, 2023 1:57:02 GMT -6
Ok, this has proven to be quite a journey so far with much more to come. I had some pretty crappy attempts at getting the band live-streamed which I've now archived and removed cuz, well, they kinda sucked. I switched the whole system up and just did this on Facebook a minute ago. Much better. Too much reverb but much better. Linked below. I'm using eCamm because it has the ability to create timed scenes for automatic switching and can also use "center stage" with my iPhone camera to give some movement. I also am using an app called Loopback which lets you aggregate inputs into a virtual device so I was able to take the sound out of my DAW instead of using some crapola digital mixer. Everything is wired in. Two cameras, just my iPad and iPhone. Tomorrow I've got to pick up some micro-HDMI adapters to use with the capture cards I just picked up. Basically, you were are all right about everything. Haha. fb.watch/jDDq0cMnE8/
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 1, 2023 2:19:14 GMT -6
Did another one with reverb back a bit. Keep forgetting to patching compressor. Anyway though, this feels vaguely like something somewhat functional. If you suspend disbelief you could imagine that some moderately professional people did this! Haha. fb.watch/jDEBaKnE3R/
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Post by gwlee7 on Apr 1, 2023 6:22:29 GMT -6
You are getting very close. The second stream sounded much better. I will be following onFB.
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