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Post by teejay on Mar 9, 2023 17:10:04 GMT -6
I've got a 13 year-old PC I built for my DAW. I'm still running Windows 7, as I haven't wanted to mess anything up by upgrading. Lately I've been running into more glitches and hiccups, even trying to just play back files using Windows Media Player. Now it's starting to impact Reaper as well. Suddenly it's almost getting unusable.
Wondering about reinstalling Windows 7. The PC ran really well when built, and I had maxed out the RAM at 16 GB at the time. I have a second hard drive where all of my audio files are...I'm guessing that would be unaffected by a reinstall of the OS.
My main concerns are things like plugins and authentication for those that reside on the OS drive, drivers for my RME Multiface II, it's software, and the PCI card, Sonarworks for headphones, and any other programs I've downloaded and authenticated to over the years including the licensing and paths for them to operate. Just feels like I don't have a good handle on how everything is configured and I'm nervous about not being able to reestablish functionality, whether that be actual program usage, hardware connections, or file paths. I suppose the safest thing to do is to spin up an entirely new PC and try to transfer over slowly, but that's not in the cards at the moment. There's the cost issue, and the fact that the last and only time I did this before I had someone walking me through every step of the PC build. I think it is still a capable machine if I can get a fresh start...not sure if it's worth adding in an SSD.
I'll admit the obvious. It's old, it's Windows 7, it's not a Mac. Now that that's out of the way, anyone have any advice and/or have done this before?
Edit: This may belong in the Studio Build thread, so feel free to move it.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 10, 2023 1:39:07 GMT -6
I use Acronis, whenever I update I roll back to the previous and latest image file when I last updated a few things and build again from there.
The PC thinks it’s running a fresh install of Windows permanently!
My workstation always runs as quick as the day I bought it.
Acronis is my one big reason for sticking with Windows over OSX.
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Post by mattbroiler on Mar 10, 2023 7:55:11 GMT -6
it sounds like something or things are running in the background reinstalling windows might get rid of the issue but at the cost of getting rid of everything else as well better to try to troubleshoot a bit and hopefully pinpoint what is causing the problem in the first place have you checked startup items and looked at task manager to see if a particular process is bogging the cpu or hard drives? usually it is a hard drive I/O being overloaded by an application not ram and rarely ever a cpu problem still running windows 7 on a good pc tower here no issues everything works as great as ever
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2023 8:06:45 GMT -6
Could be registry rot. The registry is a database maintained by Windows. It basically is a record of where everything is (programs, devices, etc). It tends to grow over time and only rarely cleaned up by installers, etc. An O/S reinstall may clean it up, but a wipe/rebuild will be much better. In that case you'll need to be sure you've got installers for every single thing you use on the PC. Having a back-up before you proceed is also a really important step. It's been 5 years since I've owned a Windows machine, so I wouldn't trust myself to give you a blow-by-blow about how to proceed. But I do remember that the registry would be something of a mess after a few years. It can burn up quite a few CPU cycles as the computer hunts through it. It might always be a good idea to surface-test your hard drives and run whatever diagnostics you can get your hands on.
Good luck!
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Post by svart on Mar 10, 2023 8:14:19 GMT -6
Could be a lot of things. I would think that it's more likely to be something running in the background, or pagefile issues (full HDD, etc) than anything else. It could also be stuff like viruses but unless you see weird things happening, it might not be the case.
Hardware wise, it could be fragmentation (run defrag). It could also be a failing HDD with a lot of bad sectors or bad RAM or even a failing power supply.
Really hard to say with such an old computer.
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Post by Ward on Mar 10, 2023 8:36:48 GMT -6
I've often wanted to try the "smash it to bits with a baseball bat" method but have so far resisted.
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Post by christopher on Mar 10, 2023 10:48:35 GMT -6
Your audio files on a another drive will be fine, unless some really weird Windows setup was used that I can’t think of. …but ALWAYS have 2 backups. So first, get and hookup a cheap TB USB drive and copy the audio over so you have that worst case. And copy the important stuff again to Google drive or Dropbox etc. The problem with win7 MSFT doesn’t support it anymore, and that leads to companies not putting money into it either.. and it could be a pain trying to get everything working again. I always save working drivers and Passwords/auto codes on my backup disk, in case of building from scratch. If you haven’t cleaned out your download folder, the zip files might all still be there. I built a desktop in 2018 with new motherboard and CPU, ram, HDDs, installed windows 10 for free and never authenticated or whatever they wanted money for.. I leave it offline. www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/amp/The FireWire PCI card I use has the FireWire port for my ancient RME. Windows knew it had a driver for the PCI card, it worked right away. Reaper is super friendly to get working, so that was easy, 20 year old RME tech still works flawlessly. RME drivers worked as well. Windows 10/11 is not that bad. Maybe it’s because I haven’t used Win7 in so long? The difference, Windows is now more automated at setup and control instead of allowing the old school low level exact setup. Everything is sort of behind the curtain, you type into a search bar.. kind of annoying but then kind of nice as it works mostly and isn’t broken. A lot of tools I used to use, I just learn how to do it in Reaper, or find some new software. I don’t miss anything from 10+ years ago, there’s a million alternatives now
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Post by teejay on Mar 10, 2023 10:50:20 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback (yes, even the baseball bat scenario). Not trying to turn this into "PC Support", but appreciate the insights. I do have some PC knowledge, and had already pursued the following:
- I did start by looking at the start-up menu, a well as running Task Manager. TM showed the System Idle at 90% and above, and under the Performance tab the CPU and Memory were both low utilization. If something is running in the background, it's not obvious at this point. - I use AVG free, so ran a scan (no issues). I don't leave my PC connected to the internet...only when I'm using Reaper/plugins that require the connection. I do see when I reconnect that AVG does all if its downloads, and that can bog things down during that time period. - Defrag says I don't need to do anything...won't even let me initiate. - Used CCleaner to try to clean up space and do as much registry cleaning as possible, but I know the registry is still likely a mess. - Ran the Windows disk utility, which freed up about 19GB of additional space. - Running chkdsk right now to see if I can identify if it's a hard drive issue on my C: drive, where the OS and all apps reside. - Will run a check on the RAM next.
Both hard drives are 300GB Western Digitals, and both are half or less than half full. My AMD CPU can be over driven, but I've never done that...even though I've been tempted.
Wondering if the first step would be to upgrade the HDDs to SDDs. I'm guessing that would be a clone process. (And it could make my PC quieter as well.)
And per Michael, I know a complete rebuild would be the best. I'm just really scared of 13 years of apps, plugins, drivers, etc. and getting my RME and Waves plugins to work right again. Shame on me for not documenting all of that over the years, but here I am.
I'll keep you posted after the hard drive and memory analysis.
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Post by christopher on Mar 10, 2023 13:30:38 GMT -6
One thing I just remembered always used to save me, and everyone’s computer they wanted me to fix.. system restore. I’d just choose a restore point from a year or two earlier, it used to work incredibly well, they’d leave me alone for a year or two
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Post by plinker on Mar 10, 2023 16:42:12 GMT -6
Rebuild the OS - backup your files - put on a condom - wipe the drive completely - reinstall the OS - copy back important docs and data - only install the software you need - remove condom.
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Post by Ward on Mar 11, 2023 10:07:15 GMT -6
Rebuild the OS - backup your files - put on a condom - wipe the drive completely - reinstall the OS - copy back important docs and data - only install the software you need - remove condom. How important is the condom in this method?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2023 12:06:06 GMT -6
Rebuild the OS - backup your files - put on a condom - wipe the drive completely - reinstall the OS - copy back important docs and data - only install the software you need - remove condom. How important is the condom in this method? And does it go on the computer?
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Post by mcirish on Mar 11, 2023 12:36:51 GMT -6
Personally, I do like to do a complete rebuild every few years. So much stuff starts to drag down the speed. At that time, I usually just toss in a new drive and start over again. I know it's time consuming, but it always solves the problems without endless diagnostics. I also don't fully trust registry cleaners. If you don't know what you're doing, it can get messed up.
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Post by teejay on Mar 13, 2023 21:23:21 GMT -6
Update:
- Ran a full Windows backup. Took 2.5 days. Failed at the end. - Ran a disk image backup. Failed at the end. - Ran a disc recovery to DVD. Worked
So it appears now that I'll have to manually copy my files/programs over to my external drive, do my due diligence to ensure I have my credentials in order for my plugins and Reaper, and proceed with wiping the C: drive and reinstalling from scratch. Hoping I don't just hose my interface and software up.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 14, 2023 0:56:38 GMT -6
[/quote]And does it go on the computer?[/quote] Very carefully. Chris
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Post by rowmat on Mar 14, 2023 1:37:36 GMT -6
How important is the condom in this method? And does it go on the computer? It’s fitted onto the hard di*k. Prevents data leakage. 🥴
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Post by mattbroiler on Mar 14, 2023 3:55:21 GMT -6
I would go for copying the data to new Samsung SSDs - if you are running old WD hard drives that is your biggest bottleneck for system speed you can make a full drive image of C: with drive image XML from runtime.org free drive image software for windows then copy the files and folders you want from d: to d: you don't have to image the non-system drive although that works too. I use SyncBack free for selective file and folder copying it works more efficiently than drag and drop
also I would ditch AVG it used to be good but turned into bloatware years ago like nearly everything does - it will be slowing things down. If you want an AV scanner free Malwarebytes is okay. Ccleaner reg cleaner is okay at least it does not mess things up but it has nothing to do with increasing performance that I have ever seen. In CCleaner go to the tools - startup area and delete unwanted programs from launching at login - also delete all the scheduled tasks from various programs.
Also windows services - turn off and disable the Windows Search service it is absolutely useless running all the time
Hope you get your system sorted out and running well again once you get through a few more troubleshooting steps
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Post by plinker on Mar 14, 2023 7:47:15 GMT -6
And does it go on the computer? It’s fitted onto the hard di*k. Prevents data leakage. 🥴 Ya'll quit making fun.
I'm serious about this! If any accidents happen, and you're not wearing the condom, you might have to abort the process altogether.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 8:16:13 GMT -6
And does it go on the computer? It’s fitted onto the hard di*k. Prevents data leakage. 🥴 Stick your head out the window. You'll hear me groaning off in the distance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 8:20:40 GMT -6
Also windows services - turn off and disable the Windows Search service it is absolutely useless running all the time This reminds me of an issue I ran into on Windows some years back. Whatever anti-virus software I was using at the time insisted on checking every file that was being written. This would hardly be noticeable on a spread sheet, but if you were writing a mix or running a compiler then it would absolutely kill performance. I hope that's gotten better, but at the time I had to change the option of scanning to something I'd do manually whenever I felt I needed to.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 14, 2023 8:46:24 GMT -6
Rebuild the OS - backup your files - put on a condom - wipe the drive completely - reinstall the OS - copy back important docs and data - only install the software you need - remove condom. You forgot the day of prayer to every major religion and the sacrifice of the virgin goat.
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Post by plinker on Mar 14, 2023 10:31:48 GMT -6
Rebuild the OS - backup your files - put on a condom - wipe the drive completely - reinstall the OS - copy back important docs and data - only install the software you need - remove condom. You forgot the day of prayer to every major religion and the sacrifice of the virgin goat. That's toooo old school for modern tech, Eric. I prefer, depression era approaches: I click my heels together three times and repeat, "There's no place like tone" until it works.
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Post by teejay on Mar 14, 2023 12:59:48 GMT -6
Thank you mattbroiler. I'll try that approach. FYI: Started uninstalling AVG. Got to 1% and the PC crashed.
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Post by svart on Mar 14, 2023 13:08:03 GMT -6
The built-in antivirus in win10/11 is pretty good. No need for a 3rd party program.
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Post by mattbroiler on Mar 14, 2023 19:16:37 GMT -6
fyi there is an avg removal tool that you should run if it fails to uninstall correctly by the usual method - www.avg.com/en-us/avg-remover#pcagree that the built in windows defender is sufficient and better than most third party av apps these days sometimes I go with free Malwarebytes as a supplement but usually don't bother anymore
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