|
Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Mar 1, 2023 12:46:34 GMT -6
Curious what people have on their drum bus, specifically in regards to stuff they are mixing into, either plugins or hardware. Wondering about the signal chains and, more importantly, why those choices are being made, in the order they are being made. I'm guessing anything that serves this general purpose is pretty gentle overall? I've seen a lot of threads on bus compressors but nothing that really deals with the whole chain - like if there are EQs, saturation etc, and why those things are where they are in the signal chain. Anything genre specific, etc? Is it all song specific?
Or, maybe perhaps you don't have anything on the bus and prefer not to mix into anything at all, and the bus is just for overall volume control? Or, you're making those bus moves after a lot of the drum mixing has already been done.
|
|
|
Post by tkaitkai on Mar 1, 2023 13:24:30 GMT -6
Pretty much the only thing that stays consistent is a clipping plugin, either JST Clip or Venn Audio Free Clip.
Usually some type of compressor, too — most often the Kiive or IK Distressor, Waves SSL, or IK 670.
|
|
|
Post by jaba on Mar 1, 2023 13:44:30 GMT -6
Drum bus has a bunch of bypassed plugs ready to go. I want to start by hearing the tracks as they are so the bus just starts out as a fader for drums (and sometimes bass), but when I start trying plugs, having favorites ready to go in one click keeps the momentum up.
Plugs are a few favorite compressors, EQs, filters that I most often use. The ones that are all over latest mixes are MolotGE for compression and Fuse VQA-154 for EQ, though the VPRE-562 is seeing a lot of action on this current project.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2023 14:37:36 GMT -6
There are two common choices to raise the RMS and sit the drum kit with things such as high gain guitars or slammed vocals. The main thing is unlike slapping a colored mix bus compressor on and riding the faders and eqing into it so you need to set it very early on, a drum bus compressor is usually set a little later in the mixing of the drums and you adjust them into it. Or you could just straight up do it right away to say limit a snare to not modulate the other drum tracks and hear the modulation and then hear it go away. Or get the pump with the kick or snare beat that you want and mix into it. Today's mostly itb teeny bopper and pop rap mixes are usually terrible about effective peak control though.
1) A stereo compressor with a sigmoid function curve on the attack portion of the smoothing filter to keep the hits while being able to sit the drum bus back in the stereo image, where it would be on stage, with a moderately fast attack and release slow enough to not pump
2) Do the same thing but instead of keeping the hits, convert them into distortion with soft clippers or distort them and pump up the body. If the transients aren't processed and raised up with the body, if you are using a two bus compressor, or limiter, they will pump the rest of the mix in unwanted ways if limited (even with fast attack and release, it's still on the whole mix) and sometimes can't even be clipped off because the resulting oscillations might raise the volume even more so and it's distorting ugh
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 1, 2023 15:01:20 GMT -6
If I were to go into detail . . . this reply would be pages Long. It would be a book.
There are a few considerations here. Normally it's 18-24 mics and channels for drums capture, for me.
Drums are mixed into a bus, yes, but that bus goes into the master bus. And that is where half of the action takes place.
More to follow
|
|
|
Post by bgrotto on Mar 1, 2023 15:12:51 GMT -6
D comp and ibis for hardware. Sometimes fatso, sometimes a vca (either obsidian or smart). When my 10dcf pair is back from the shop, that can be a nice flavor too.
For software, I like uad and lindell 2500, kiive rubber band and adc, Sam’s vu compressor sometimes, and for eq I usually stick with Kirchhoff but sometimes do color with fuse or a pultec of some sort.
Lately I’ve been having fun with the black box plugin too.
I get basic tones and balances before adding this stuff. Chain is picked according to need, but the d comp seems to be winning most of my compression shootouts of late, and the ibis is a mainstay for when I need eq.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Mar 1, 2023 15:32:07 GMT -6
Arouser first. 5ms attack, 100ms release. 2:1 hitting around -5GR. Maybe some EQ. If it's there, it's to add some top end. Usually Waves SSL or SSL native. Maybe some JST clip. Maybe VMR with the standard bus set to do a little distortion.
However, drum shells always get a parallel bus with 1176 smashing -20GR, fast attack, fast release. I want it FLAT and funky, mixed in about 14dB down or so to give it a little body without resorting to crushing everything else.
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Mar 1, 2023 15:50:40 GMT -6
I use my AML ez1073's, as hardware insert, soft clipping to get a hair of distortion and control the worst peaks. Then into a buss compressor, usually waves API 2500, sometimes a 33609 plugin. Then I follow it with Tokyo Dawn Nova EQ, usually cutting a little 500hz, or cutting some mud between 200-400hz.
|
|
|
Post by honkeur on Mar 1, 2023 16:03:06 GMT -6
Currently in the box here.
Saturation (first, because the saturation should be responding to uncontrolled dynamics): Kazrog True Iron Parallel smash (maybe only 15% wet): Purple Audio MC77, all buttons in Compression: IK 33609 Clipping (just the very highest peaks): SIR StandardCLIP EQ: almost never -- if I do, it's a shelf across a smashed send Multiband: Sound Theory Gullfoss, 10% or less
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Mar 1, 2023 17:01:00 GMT -6
Depending on the sound the track wants, I have usually shells and maybe rooms routed to an ADR Compex (HW) in parallel or the CLA-76 in blue mode (it still does a thing!). That is more for level/vibe. The clean and wet busses feed a drum out that usually has an API 2500 (HW) mostly for the box tone, but occasionally grabbing kick and snare peaks that jump out. Also, if needed, I will have Distressors on kick and snare parallel to help with them punching through a dense mix. Occasionally, I will have a distortion parallel for the toms if there are reallllllly gained out guitars or there is too much attack and not enough tone coming through.
|
|
|
Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Mar 1, 2023 17:20:29 GMT -6
Wow, lots of info already! Thanks!
Are people generally setting all of this right at the start of the mix process? Like, you get your levels, track the drums....whatever else....and have all the rough tracks without any addition processing. Then, you're setting your drum bus stuff and starting to mix with all of that active, and then making your subsequent snare moves, kicks moves, all the while the audio is going back through the drum bus chain? Or, are these more or less moves made after the fact (or stepwise during the mix?)
Does it make sense, for example, to have a very gentle SSL style comp on and active right from the start of the mix? And maybe some gentle EQ, like a dB of 60Hz and 8k from a Pultec?
|
|
|
Post by honkeur on Mar 1, 2023 17:38:03 GMT -6
My preferred way is to have the bus processing chain ready, but inactive. I focus on the individual tracks: first balances, then saturation on kick and snare, then corrective EQs. When it all sounds OK-ish, then I'll bring in the bus processing, bit by bit, modifying to suit the track. Then, I'll go back and adjust the individual tracks (if needed), and again when the mix is near completion (if needed), and again when the 2-bus compression goes on (if needed).
Basically...it's best to let your ears tell you what to do next.
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Mar 1, 2023 17:53:41 GMT -6
I like doing a parallel drum bus. Some favorites are:
RS124 Pair Chandler Zener Some kind of Neve 2254 Style Pair Smart C1LA
A little low and highs boost on a Pultec Style Pair of EQs
Hardware or the plugin versions depending on what's available 👍🏼
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Mar 1, 2023 18:16:11 GMT -6
On the Drm Bus? Always a silver bullet - followed by either a D Comp or SSL Bus Comp (usually the Serpent - with grind engaged). On rare occasions, a pultec.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Mar 1, 2023 18:18:26 GMT -6
I set up a drum parallel from the get go. On the console I really like the RNC, in regular mode (nice mode is boring AF). After switching to PT after some time I started doing more and more things ITB. For a long time I used the API2500 as drum parallel and I still think it sounds great for that. I like it better than the UAD2500 for drum parallel. For some projects I would go with the McDSP 6030 for choices, but often chose the Neve emu. After getting into UAD world, I've become really into the Chandler Zener (also Softube, so no need for UAD, but it was in Greg's system). I start with the Ryan Hewett Drum parallel Crush preset (I know I hate presets for compressors, but damn if this isn't a good starting point).
It's usually somewhat far down on its fader, but sometimes I automate that instead of the drum mics. I prefer it to be fed by the drum close mics, and often mute the send on the OH, Hat, and Room mics, but I set it up so all the drum channels are sent, so it's easy to see what happens when they are added to the parallel.
Individual tracks are treated as needed. I have the drums set as a group so I can move all the faders with one, but turn it off to make balance changes.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 1, 2023 18:30:35 GMT -6
If I were to go into detail . . . this reply would be pages Long. It would be a book. There are a few considerations here. Normally it's 18-24 mics and channels for drums capture, for me. Drums are mixed into a bus, yes, but that bus goes into the master bus. And that is where half of the action takes place. More to follow It all starts with having your drums in tune, and the right tuning at that, then using the right heads, Watching out for cross-modulation with tunings between drums being too close and causing weird sympathetic vibrations that bring out the worst being dealt with first. The Where do you go? Assuming you know how to balance close mics with room mics and overheads and front of kit mics, and creat a decent balance, most of your work is done on a channel level to have each track contribution meaningful. EQing kicks and toms to have an impact without being tubby or thin? Natch. Balance achieved, each mic with small amounts of compression and/or limiting so that your balance doesn't get destroyed in an exuberant performance . . . mix to a drum bus with an overall limited on it. What to use? The standard API2500 is a good place to start. If compression starts getting heavier than you want, don't raise the threshold decrease the channel levels. I do this and a hundred other things and clean up each track when not in use and then the drum buss rides into the mains along with all the other elements, grouped accordingly and limited so that the instruments control dynamics naturally and never fight . . . just push each other a little out of the way from time to time. And a million other things.
|
|
|
Post by srb on Mar 1, 2023 19:00:05 GMT -6
Parallel buss to: Heritage Successor > Avedis e27 most times. I'll also use the Iron Age H9's instead of the Avedis.
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Mar 1, 2023 21:24:56 GMT -6
Currently my drum bus is pretty simple: ReaEQ (simple stock digital parametric EQ); Console 1 Channel Strip - often either the API or the Neve channels - that has filters (which I'll often use to hpf the compression detection circuit) EQ, Compression, and saturation; and a clipper (probably Stillwell's Event Horizon or JST Clip). If I need to soften transients rather than clip them I'll use something like the D16 Frontier limiter instead of the clipper.
I also run two parallel drum buses; not because I always use both but because I always use one or the other and sometimes use both. One is set up for slow attack/med-fast release to really exaggerate transients. One is set to be fast attack and fast release to really destroy transients and exaggerate the tone/sustain/body of the drums.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Mar 1, 2023 21:31:18 GMT -6
Usually all the drum close mics hit a hardware comp on the way in. If I'm in a hurry I'll skip tom compression. Usually no separate bus, just filling out the channel comps. If I do a bus, it's usually to the Serpent SB4001, 1.5:1, barely seeing the needle jiggle.
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Mar 2, 2023 2:57:24 GMT -6
If I get my sounds right at source and use the right amount of channel processing then the drum bus gets very little - possibly a bit of overall compression but that’s more likely just on the OH.
Sometimes I’ll run the drums into my Phoenix hardware vari mu really smash it and then fold a touch of that back in as a parallel.
But as I have a great stereo bus hardware chain I don’t care for too much dedicated drum bus (or any bus) processing.
Of course this is all genre specific.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 2, 2023 7:00:11 GMT -6
Usually all the drum close mics hit a hardware comp on the way in. If I'm in a hurry I'll skip tom compression. Usually no separate bus, just filling out the channel comps. If I do a bus, it's usually to the Serpent SB4001, 1.5:1, barely seeing the needle jiggle. A very sensible approach !
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 2, 2023 7:03:24 GMT -6
Pseudo Crotch Mic Technique One thing I always do when tracking drums is using an LDC in hyper cardioid (a blue kiwi for the past year and a half) aimed across the top of the kick drum at the snare, and it captures the snare, kick vent and toms from a different hear-point.
I run it into an old OG Warm Tonebeast and crush/distort the hell out of it.
Build a drum mix without it, and then gradually bring it into the mix - it just adds dimension to the sound.
|
|
|
Post by mcirish on Mar 2, 2023 9:34:09 GMT -6
On drum buss, I'm typically just using something like this: 1) Clipper - often Standard Clip, but my new favorite lately is Boz Big Clipper on setting #4 (absolutely killer plugin once you find the sweet spot between clipping and limiting) 2) The Glue or another SSL type compressor 3) Pultec type EQ to add a bit of 10K and 60hz 4) Possibly some saturation like HG-2 or some from Fuse Audio 5) Limiter - never more than .5dB-1dB max limiting. I really hate the sound of limiters on drums but I have it there as a safety for any stray peaks
For the sound I'm after, the clipper is super important to get the transients under control without making the drums lose punch, like they do with heavy compression. I'm usually doing 14-15 tracks of drums in my room. I don't compress on the way in. I have a one room 20x20 studio and it's pretty hard to dial in drum compression while tracking. Anyway, I always prefer saturation and clipping over compression and limiting on drums. I also have 4-5 parallel FX paths on various drum sub groups as well. Each does some specific thing and I dial in as much as is needed to get the drums to feel big and open. That's always various compressors and saturation that is separate from the drum buss.
I think drums are one of the funnest things to mix as you can do so much to them and completely change the feel of a tune.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 2, 2023 10:27:15 GMT -6
I also like jmoose's ideas about mixing where the drums are the make or break component.
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Mar 2, 2023 15:44:34 GMT -6
Currently all ITB. Main drum bus usually goes to TDR Nova with some dynamic eq on the sub lows and then decapitator in triode. Usually cutting some lows on decapitator and the mix knob often in the 50% range or so. Sometimes I’ll put a maag eq4 on there doing push/pull with the sub and 40hz bands
I also have two parallel busses - one usually with the acme opticom in fast doing quite a bit of reduction and another just with kick and snare going to a dynamite comp.
|
|