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Bleed
Jun 16, 2014 20:09:02 GMT -6
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 16, 2014 20:09:02 GMT -6
Reading Bob Olhsson's bio on the @exponentialaudio site (and knowing his preference for getting rig of the evil headphones) made me want to finish the rest of my current project without any headphones... I haven't done it yet, but damnit, I think I'm gonna try it. It would certainly speed up the process for me. One of the drawbacks (to me at least) in being by yourself and tracking a full song is the PITA of going desk, selecting all the tracks that you want in the headphones, re-routing, going back to the recording position, forgetting that you left something out, going back, then going back to the recording position, realizing you forgot to mute the track in PT's and you hear latency, going back, etc. It honestly keeps me from doing it lots of time. I guess what I'm saying is that in the constant quest for "perfect isolation," I lose creativity (and will)... Maybe I'll just commit to recording right there in front of the monitors and just MOVE FORWARD. How bad will I regret this? Any thoughts? |
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 16, 2014 20:17:05 GMT -6
iPad and V control would help with having to run back and forth.
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Bleed
Jun 16, 2014 20:49:31 GMT -6
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 16, 2014 20:49:31 GMT -6
Yeah...have both...but use Tranzport mostly. Really it's kind of a question about whether skipping the phones would increase my productivity and efficiency. Kind of rhetorical I guess.
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Bleed
Jun 16, 2014 21:14:00 GMT -6
Post by svart on Jun 16, 2014 21:14:00 GMT -6
Maybe I'm unclear of what you mean.. Do you mean tracking without headphones, or mixing without using headphones?
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 2:19:08 GMT -6
Post by lolo on Jun 17, 2014 2:19:08 GMT -6
Just wonder if you can run into some issues at mix time. Will def be easier, but damn. imagine in smaller rooms how much bleed you'll get. esp with LDC. and then compressing that Vocal, kick and guitar bleed etc.... Might give it a try too
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 4:22:26 GMT -6
Post by keymod on Jun 17, 2014 4:22:26 GMT -6
Isn't there something about if you flip the phase through the monitors the result will be more workable?
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Post by Ward on Jun 17, 2014 7:46:58 GMT -6
I just wish I could completely eliminate click leakage (BLEED) from headphones.
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 9:46:33 GMT -6
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2014 9:46:33 GMT -6
Maybe I'm unclear of what you mean.. Do you mean tracking without headphones, or mixing without using headphones? Tracking |
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 9:51:49 GMT -6
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 17, 2014 9:51:49 GMT -6
One trick is to do one pass of just bleed and then mix that with the vocal. The bleed actually enhances the sound of loud rock and roll.
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 9:52:12 GMT -6
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2014 9:52:12 GMT -6
I guess what I was getting at was just getting speed and convenience down. I don't write in my studio because if I want to record an acoustic part, I'd have to change all the headphone cues in PT, get up and walk over to the back of the room, inevitably leave the click off or some BS like that, walk back, blah blah blah...all to lay down a part to see what it sounds like. I've always used my studio as the last step in the making of the song. Maybe I just need to set up a 57 at my recording desk for all rough ideas.
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Post by Ward on Jun 17, 2014 10:12:31 GMT -6
Maybe I just need to set up a 57 at my recording desk for all rough ideas. 57? Go with a 58. It's '1' louder.... and betterer. |
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 10:14:05 GMT -6
Post by henge on Jun 17, 2014 10:14:05 GMT -6
One trick is to do one pass of just bleed and then mix that with the vocal. The bleed actually enhances the sound of loud rock and roll. Man, great profile on the @exponentialaudio site Bob! So, what constitutes a track of bleed and how can I incorporate that into a mix? |
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 10:47:02 GMT -6
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 17, 2014 10:47:02 GMT -6
Just record a pass of the vocal mike without singing after you are done singing vocals.
57s sound way way better than 58s in my experience.
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 12:27:06 GMT -6
Post by Ward on Jun 17, 2014 12:27:06 GMT -6
57s sound way way better than 58s in my experience. But the 58 is one louder.  |
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Bleed
Jun 17, 2014 12:27:55 GMT -6
Post by Ward on Jun 17, 2014 12:27:55 GMT -6
P.S. Bob, if you think my sense of humor twisted here, try following my facebook mockery.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2014 12:54:09 GMT -6
Just record a pass of the vocal mike without singing after you are done singing vocals.. Then flip the phase...That's freaking brilliant. Never would have thought of that. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
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Bleed
Jul 1, 2014 21:37:19 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Jul 1, 2014 21:37:19 GMT -6
Eric's third rule of acustics :
The best recordings don't always happen in the best room with the best mic.
They always happen where the performer is most comfortable, It's about performance.
In this situation John try it a bit , my hunch is at times you will find the lack of stress will work best, other times your normal approach. As a producer you realize the human factors are the hardest to pin down, but in theory that's what your paid to do!
Heck I have performed backing vocals live from FOH, engineered sessions where I have printed a control room mic because 1. Instant notes synced 2. The gang on the couch singing along sounded better than the real backing vocals.
First rule of audio ( and life for that matter ) NEVER KNOCK WHAT WORKS!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 1, 2014 21:51:29 GMT -6
The lead pass and two passes of backgrounds on Rare Earth's "I Just Want To Celebrate" were all recorded using my hand-held Shure SM-53 in the control room with the monitors up plenty loud.
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Bleed
Jul 2, 2014 7:45:26 GMT -6
Post by ephi82 on Jul 2, 2014 7:45:26 GMT -6
Sometime ago I was doing some tunes with an early 60's vibe.
It's very hard to chase that when you are a one man band and engineer.
I was afraid it wouldnt work, but I got a good instrumental mix up, pumped it out of the monitors. I sang through a Sm-57 and experimented with its position relative to the monitors. (pointing away, pointing towards, at an angle etc. ) I think I settled on at an angle.
In anycase, it worked. It had that "recorded live in a room" thing.
Bob's suggestion of recording the monitors without the vocal is a great one if you need to get more subtle on the vocal track
I think someone needs to invent a "plug" that sounds like this! (Hey kids, instant 60's vibe for your digital recordings!)
Yes, I am kidding!
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Bleed
Jul 2, 2014 7:55:10 GMT -6
Post by svart on Jul 2, 2014 7:55:10 GMT -6
I always just go in later and cut out everything that is not vocals on the vocal tracks. I actually manually slice up the track into just the words(or maybe phrases) and draw different fade-ins/outs to match the sound of the word. If you still have noise that is louder than your vocals then you seriously need some kind of isolation. If it's not, then just cut the junk out that should be silence anyway. No need to overthink it or resort to fancy tricks.
Besides, even the phase reversal thing is not perfect. I tried it a number of times over the years and it doesn't work for much besides constant noise. The time delays of different noises on different takes won't line up enough to eliminate all the noise, it just creates strange filtering nulls for me. But then again, I'm seriously anal about my vocal tracks being pristine. If there is one track that needs to be perfect, it's the vocals.
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Bleed
Jul 2, 2014 10:07:00 GMT -6
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 2, 2014 10:07:00 GMT -6
I did a demo of this at the NAMM show a few summers ago. Our singers were two A-List background singers who we have all heard on literally hundreds of top 10 pop records. They were true masters of the headphones so I wasn't sure what might happen. The resulting performance was so much better it put everybody in the room's jaw on the floor.
Something most people don't realize is that headphones were almost never used even for overdubbing prior to the late '60s. We had one of the very first dedicated headphone systems at Motown beginning around 1965 and this was installed because we'd built three isolation rooms with the idea of binaural microphones connecting everybody. The binaural didn't work out but the drummers liked being able to hear Jamerson better.
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Bleed
Jul 2, 2014 10:08:20 GMT -6
Ward likes this
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 2, 2014 10:08:20 GMT -6
I hate 58s!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Bleed
Jul 2, 2014 10:19:58 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Jul 2, 2014 10:19:58 GMT -6
Bob the trick of recording the bleed track is classic ! We used to call it "Phase NR" !
The other trick of using a Cardiod in the control room is to
use a single monitor in the little Cardiod null like a stage monitor! You can get a lot more SPL this way.
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Bleed
Jul 3, 2014 9:50:40 GMT -6
Post by Ward on Jul 3, 2014 9:50:40 GMT -6
Why Bob Bob Olhsson, they're a lovely guitar pickup. haha They also make a fairly good talk-back 'mic' (and I use that word loosely) under ideal circumstances. |
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Bleed
Aug 20, 2014 19:35:48 GMT -6
Post by wiz on Aug 20, 2014 19:35:48 GMT -6
I thought I would pop back.
I was just having trouble cutting a vocal .. having a real devil of a time.
off with the cans, set the monitors just loud enough ( i can actually stand behind my monitors and position the rear of my U87 to the backs of them) and bingo, one take done..
sometimes.. stuff works
cheers
Wiz
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