ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,103 
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2022 11:21:32 GMT -6
Do you guys all really compress acoustic guitars on the way in? I find compression so finicky on acoustic guitars that I often don't compress them at all going in. Seems like there's such a fine line between "tamed" and "quacky and ruined" that I don't usually bother unless there's a part that actually calls for an over-compressed acoustic (in which case I usually reach for Audioscape Opto, I like the pumping). For context, I tend to go for a dark/woody acoustic style like you might hear on Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan records. No SDC's here, gimme that dirt! I cheat I’ll split the single and print dry and compressed tracks, a little bit of compression on AC in the cans mix can make tracking easier. Besides if during mix we decide that the tone or overall composition just doesn’t work having that dry track makes me look in the words of Homor Simpsons SMRT! |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 30, 2022 11:57:01 GMT -6
Do you guys all really compress acoustic guitars on the way in? I find compression so finicky on acoustic guitars that I often don't compress them at all going in. Seems like there's such a fine line between "tamed" and "quacky and ruined" that I don't usually bother unless there's a part that actually calls for an over-compressed acoustic (in which case I usually reach for Audioscape Opto, I like the pumping). For context, I tend to go for a dark/woody acoustic style like you might hear on Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan records. No SDC's here, gimme that dirt! If I’m playing, generally no way. Not many things piss me off more than going to accentuate a note or run on an acoustic and a compressor grabs it and pulls it back - it’s so distracting in the cans it will pull me out of the moment and ruin the take and usually a few more afterwards Hahahah. The only use I have for acoustic compression is either a 3a with no peak reduction just for the tone, or slamming a strummed ac into a distressor for the Radiohead thing. |
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Post by Ward on Dec 30, 2022 14:06:10 GMT -6
I'm 33 and 1/3 on it!! LA3a/V3a, LA4 and 1176 . . . now which 76? 76D usually . . . sometimes the defunct Mohog for that floating WTAF is it, a D E F G or 78? |
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Post by Ward on Dec 30, 2022 14:22:51 GMT -6
Do you guys all really compress acoustic guitars on the way in? I find compression so finicky on acoustic guitars that I often don't compress them at all going in. Seems like there's such a fine line between "tamed" and "quacky and ruined" that I don't usually bother unless there's a part that actually calls for an over-compressed acoustic (in which case I usually reach for Audioscape Opto, I like the pumping). For context, I tend to go for a dark/woody acoustic style like you might hear on Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan records. No SDC's here, gimme that dirt! Yes, I always ALWAYS ALL THE TIME without exception compress on the way in. Lightly, but it's there. I know, I'm a wild and crazy guy but there it is . . . I believe in putting finished audio to 'tape' just like when I started at this back when disco was dying. |
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Post by anders on Dec 31, 2022 16:54:27 GMT -6
[…] I believe in putting finished audio to 'tape' just like when I started at this back when disco was dying. Wait what? Disco is dead? |
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Post by Ward on Jan 1, 2023 13:46:17 GMT -6
[…] I believe in putting finished audio to 'tape' just like when I started at this back when disco was dying. Wait what? Disco is dead? It was dying. Clearly it isn't dead. It came back to life as Zombie Disco, aka EDM and Dance, electronica, drum n bass etc |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 1, 2023 15:13:09 GMT -6
The 1176 (and distressor) are gonna always add a zingy treble distortion that makes steel strings sound even more like someone keying your car. Usually the very last thing i want an acoustic to sound like. But sometimes. The CAPI thing (526?) does not have the zing. Much more flexible FET box. Vari-mu can be cool if it doesn't pump and blow the vibe. Various opto’s can be cool. I still feel like i get the most transparent control out of my various FCS VCA’s, either RMS or NL. The faster attack/release of NL is good for a lot of pop work.
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Post by schlep on Jan 1, 2023 15:59:03 GMT -6
The 1176 (and distressor) are gonna always add a zingy treble distortion that makes steel strings sound even more like someone keying your car. Usually the very last thing i want an acoustic to sound like. But sometimes. The CAPI thing (526?) does not have the zing. Much more flexible FET box. Vari-mu can be cool if it doesn't pump and blow the vibe. Various opto’s can be cool. I still feel like i get the most transparent control out of my various FCS VCA’s, either RMS or NL. The faster attack/release of NL is good for a lot of pop work. Ah.... I have most definitely noticed many 70s steel string acoustic guitar rock recordings where the strings most definitely had extra zing / texture. An 1176 may be part of that sound. Not necessarily accurate, but it was a thing. Good to know it may have been the compressor, in whole or at least in part. When you focus on the sound vs the notes you finally notice the texture. When I first noticed it all I could think was that is was not an accurate capture of an acoustic guitar. My hardware is limited to a 2A / 3A and DBX 560A. I mostly rely on the 3A and really use it to manage dynamics rather than alter the sound / tone of the guitar. |
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Post by Ward on Jan 1, 2023 18:29:01 GMT -6
The 1176 (and distressor) are gonna always add a zingy treble distortion that makes steel strings sound even more like someone keying your car. Usually the very last thing i want an acoustic to sound like. But sometimes. The CAPI thing (526?) does not have the zing. Much more flexible FET box. Vari-mu can be cool if it doesn't pump and blow the vibe. Various opto’s can be cool. I still feel like i get the most transparent control out of my various FCS VCA’s, either RMS or NL. The faster attack/release of NL is good for a lot of pop work. With an AB revision? Definitely, especially using the 12:1 ratio. But that's why we use it! The sound of "Wake me up when September ends" is a prime example of that type of excitement. With a D/E revision? Not so much, and less bass pumping, With an F/G/H revision? Hardly noticeable. Maybe 12:1 3a 7r settings, even ABI you'll get a smidge of it. And the newness of your strings have bearing on things too. |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 1, 2023 21:02:23 GMT -6
1178's do it too.....
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Post by theshea on Jan 2, 2023 1:32:20 GMT -6
wish i had a hardware la3a for tracking as i use that one in plugin form when mixing acoustic guitar all the time.
been eyeing the golden age premier la3a one for ages now ...
in the meantime i use my stam adg 76 with the pepper setting doing 2-3db GR when tracking acoustic guitars. can‘t do mich wrong with that setting and gets the sound a bit more controlled and mix ready. like it.
thats always my aim: get the recordings a bit more consistent while still natural sounding without messing it up. apaprt from drum wurst or room tracks i am always conservative with compression in the tracking stage. but in the end it gets me a. icer overall songsound when doing faders up rough balance mix.
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Post by Ward on Jan 2, 2023 7:32:54 GMT -6
wish i had a hardware la3a for tracking as i use that one in plugin form when mixing acoustic guitar all the time. been eyeing the golden age premier la3a one for ages now ... in the meantime i use my stam adg 76 with the pepper setting doing 2-3db GR when tracking acoustic guitars. can‘t do mich wrong with that setting and gets the sound a bit more controlled and mix ready. like it. thats always my aim: get the recordings a bit more consistent while still natural sounding without messing it up. apaprt from drum wurst or room tracks i am always conservative with compression in the tracking stage. but in the end it gets me a. icer overall songsound when doing faders up rough balance mix. I strongly recommend the audioscape V3a if you have a 500 series chassis. It's a virtual 1:1 match to my LA3a, and if you don't like it, return it and get your money back. Click this, there's one left in stock and it's only $799. And seriously, it's guaranteed. I'm not kidding you, I'm standing on my word. |
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Post by Ward on Jan 2, 2023 7:34:51 GMT -6
You are 100% correct, they do. It's a matter of taste and I respect your take on it!! It's like how some 251 clones have that tiny bit of something that annoys the few of us. In this racket, there are many mics, many compressors or limiters, preamps, converters etc for a reason: We all have different tastes and takes on things. And that's cool! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 11:25:25 GMT -6
The 1176 (and distressor) are gonna always add a zingy treble distortion that makes steel strings sound even more like someone keying your car. Usually the very last thing i want an acoustic to sound like. But sometimes. The CAPI thing (526?) does not have the zing. Much more flexible FET box. Vari-mu can be cool if it doesn't pump and blow the vibe. Various opto’s can be cool. I still feel like i get the most transparent control out of my various FCS VCA’s, either RMS or NL. The faster attack/release of NL is good for a lot of pop work. With an AB revision? Definitely, especially using the 12:1 ratio. But that's why we use it! The sound of "Wake me up when September ends" is a prime example of that type of excitement. With a D/E revision? Not so much, and less bass pumping, With an F/G/H revision? Hardly noticeable. Maybe 12:1 3a 7r settings, even ABI you'll get a smidge of it. And the newness of your strings have bearing on things too. CLA Green Day = Chernobyl victims |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 11:45:32 GMT -6
Neumann mic on a steel string with 3k boosted and high shelf on some forward channel strip into an 1176 = kill me now. Usually now the mic is some Chinese monstrosity and the 76 is a grosser clone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 13:33:27 GMT -6
Yes, I always ALWAYS ALL THE TIME without exception compress on the way in. Lightly, but it's there. I know, I'm a wild and crazy guy but there it is . . . I believe in putting finished audio to 'tape' just like when I started at this back when disco was dying. You are? Compressing acoustics with opto's or mu's has always been a thing amongst working engineers in my neck of the woods. What's far less common is using a 1176, generally because they're used as smashers (1176's are peak limiters after all) or distortion enhancers with a low ratio. Yes, I know you can back off a lot but unless it's a drum or vocal they tend to get outshined on stringed instruments by said mu's or opto's.
An early rev sounds cool on electrics though, you essentially bypass the comp and let it saturate. That was IME another common trick, maybe I'm just working off an old guide book?
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Post by theshea on Jan 2, 2023 13:38:11 GMT -6
wish i had a hardware la3a for tracking as i use that one in plugin form when mixing acoustic guitar all the time. been eyeing the golden age premier la3a one for ages now ... in the meantime i use my stam adg 76 with the pepper setting doing 2-3db GR when tracking acoustic guitars. can‘t do mich wrong with that setting and gets the sound a bit more controlled and mix ready. like it. thats always my aim: get the recordings a bit more consistent while still natural sounding without messing it up. apaprt from drum wurst or room tracks i am always conservative with compression in the tracking stage. but in the end it gets me a. icer overall songsound when doing faders up rough balance mix. I strongly recommend the audioscape V3a if you have a 500 series chassis. It's a virtual 1:1 match to my LA3a, and if you don't like it, return it and get your money back. Click this, there's one left in stock and it's only $799. And seriously, it's guaranteed. I'm not kidding you, I'm standing on my word. thanks but no 500 chassis and i am in europe. |
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Post by Ward on Jan 2, 2023 17:21:44 GMT -6
Yes, I always ALWAYS ALL THE TIME without exception compress on the way in. Lightly, but it's there. I know, I'm a wild and crazy guy but there it is . . . I believe in putting finished audio to 'tape' just like when I started at this back when disco was dying. You are? Compressing acoustics with opto's or mu's has always been a thing amongst working engineers in my neck of the woods. What's far less common is using a 1176, generally because they're used as smashers (1176's are peak limiters after all) or distortion enhancers with a low ratio. Yes, I know you can back off a lot but unless it's a drum or vocal they tend to get outshined on stringed instruments by said mu's or opto's. An early rev sounds cool on electrics though, you essentially bypass the comp and let it saturate. That was IME another common trick, maybe I'm just working off an old guide book? Optos and MUs are lovely too, but keep your options open! Try using a D or F 1176 with just a light shave off the peaks. You get all the power without losing dynamic placement in a mix. |
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Post by stam on Jan 2, 2023 19:10:23 GMT -6
1176 Rev G with super slow attack and 2:1 ratio. I build it on the SA-76 ADG
LA-3A would be my second choice, any good clone or original.
Also the LA-4 , my 3A-5 has both with the popular mods on the LA-4. Incredible on acoustic guitar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2023 3:54:37 GMT -6
Optos and MUs are lovely too, but keep your options open! Try using a D or F 1176 with just a light shave off the peaks. You get all the power without losing dynamic placement in a mix. Cool, I've got a 6176.. I'll give it a try. |
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Post by ironinthepath on Jan 9, 2023 20:53:05 GMT -6
The Buzz Audio opto offerings usually bring a smile to my face with acoustic guitar (I’ve got SOC-20 and a friend has two Essence units): worth a try in my opinion, and I find it quite transparent in terms of the signal path, can definitely retain a high quality signal while doing its thing.
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Post by chrissweet on Jan 9, 2023 21:57:40 GMT -6
If I could only have one compressor, I'd probably need it to be an 1176, but in this case, I think the 3a is better suited for the job.
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Post by Ward on Jan 11, 2023 11:56:05 GMT -6
If I could only have one compressor, I'd probably need it to be an 1176, but in this case, I think the 3a is better suited for the job. I feel the same way. The 3a is fast enough to do a decent job of limiting, but does a dandy job of compressing peaks and raising the overall perceived volume of the program material. If I had to pick one 76, it would be a D revision . . . of course, the 76D in particular for me. (and many of you fine colleagues here) |
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Post by chrissweet on Jan 11, 2023 15:17:53 GMT -6
If I could only have one compressor, I'd probably need it to be an 1176, but in this case, I think the 3a is better suited for the job. I feel the same way. The 3a is fast enough to do a decent job of limiting, but does a dandy job of compressing peaks and raising the overall perceived volume of the program material. If I had to pick one 76, it would be a D revision . . . of course, the 76D in particular for me. (and many of you fine colleagues here) I’m a rev D guy as well, having owned As, Ds and Fs from the usual suspects. Unexpectedly, My favorite and only 76 is now the Wes Audio Beta76. It’s doing something really special that nothing else I’ve tried has. Been gushing about it lately. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Jan 11, 2023 16:21:54 GMT -6
That’s the one I need to try then! No 1176 I’ve ever owned or played with (original A, F, D, early 2000 LN Reissue, 2-1176) has done anything for me; except all-buttons-in settings. Even then, I wish there was much-less distortion.
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