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Post by carymiller on Dec 27, 2022 11:35:02 GMT -6
One of the issues with every day use of plugins vs hardware is that hardware is always staring you in the face when you're in the studio - reminding you to use it. Plugins are a little more "buried" and are not constantly reminding us to use them. Nature of the beast. While there are a lot of competing terms for it, "option anxiety" is something that plagues the ITB user. I have a grand total of 28 channels of outboard eq, dynamics, etc., but with a few exceptions almost all have a near-dedicated setup and use-case. Like, the 4K brown EQ's are set for electric guitar subgroup processing. The GainBrains are almost always pulled in for drum overheads. That kind of thing. But if I were to pull open my EQ subfolder in Cubase, I'd see 10+ options. I've pared that list way down from over 30. Probably why I just use the channel strip. Even if I were to want an 1176 or LA2A plugin (I own neither in hardware), it'd be like "well, which one? Waves? Arturia? This one? That one?" It slows me up. Sometimes being able to do everything keeps you from doing anything. This I totally agree with. in 2022 the one thing I kept experimenting with was digital channel strips. I'm trying to find ONE that I really like (currently I'm using the Blackbird Studio BB N105 V2 Channel-strip but we'll see if it lasts). It's a more stripped-down simple Neve thing...before that I was using Scheps Omni Channel (which has all the bells and whistles, but I'm not sure I'm in love with the sound of it). Basically, I just want my template sessions to work like a console. I was taught signal flow on consoles, and that's what makes sense to me. Typically, I have 8-12 Sub-mix Buses a 2 Bus chain, and several FX processes and parallel chains. I'd need a rather large board to do all that, and that gets expensive, plus I'd need a dedicated space...so Pro Tools Ultimate it is. Still the workflow should be pretty simple, even if some of the processing is complex. I'm a big believer in top-down mixing. That the heavy lifting should be done on the 2Bus and the Submix chains. If I had the money, I'd buy an API The Box 2 and three more Prism Titans for 32 I/O, so I could stem out my Submixes with minimal recall involved. I don't want options paralysis. I want to know what I'm doing has net positives at each stage. And I want the recall to easy. This is why I think hybrid is the way to go...I might invest in the new Silver Bullet MKII at some point (I think Dr. Bill and Brad at LTL made a genius unit with the first one, and I used to own it/miss it). I just like mixing through an Neve or an API...or a unit that has those kinds of tonal qualities. Gimme something with transformers. But having some limitations I think helps you to get to the finish line. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 27, 2022 12:58:02 GMT -6
Great thread.
For me the biggest change is which types plug-ins I’m using. I’ve moved much more in the direction of utilizing plug-ins that don’t have an analog counterpart ( an analog analogue?).
In 2022 I finally settled on OB gear that I liked for tracking, 2-bus, and sub-mix bus purposes. I still have a few things leftover for featured tracks but most of the HW gets used like that.
Since I commit a ton on the way in and since I also really enjoy using the strips in Console 1, that means there’s less need or room for 1176 types, but still room for “short-cut” plugs.
I used to hate these types of plug-ins cause they felt like cheating. But now I think I’m busy enough that I want to cheat!
Things like Soothe, some of the Focusrite Fast, that type of thing. Plus my stock EQ. These days if you look at my plug and chain it’s mostly Console 1, stock EQ, spatial/time effects, and one of a large toolbox of utility plug-ins depending on some specific need on the track.
Still got tons of UAD stuff for when I want to go nuts chaining dynamics or something, but the aforementioned marks a big change.
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Post by seawell on Dec 27, 2022 14:02:52 GMT -6
This is where I've ended up:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things that plugins cannot do, the courage to purchase hardware where I can, and the wisdom to know the difference...AMEN.
🤣
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 14:06:50 GMT -6
This is where I've ended up: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things that plugins cannot do, the courage to purchase hardware where I can, and the wisdom to know the difference...AMEN. 🤣 Ahh my fun is over, back to the grind.. Before I do though, it must be difficult to test all of that awesome equipment and not want to buy most of it. I've seen some of your plug comparisons, some were strong against the HW. Others umm, not so much. |
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Post by seawell on Dec 27, 2022 14:11:13 GMT -6
This is where I've ended up: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things that plugins cannot do, the courage to purchase hardware where I can, and the wisdom to know the difference...AMEN. 🤣 Ahh my fun is over, back to the grind.. Before I do though, it must be difficult to test all of that awesome equipment and not want to buy most of it. I've seen some of your plug comparisons, some were strong against the HW. Others umm, not so much. It is tough! It's why if anything ever disappears from my rack, it's not a change in how I felt about it in the review...it's just that I haven't figure out(yet) how to keep them all at the same time 😫. I only hope these reviews and shootouts will help others hone in on what they like a lot quicker than I did which should save a bunch of time and money! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 14:25:28 GMT -6
Ahh my fun is over, back to the grind.. Before I do though, it must be difficult to test all of that awesome equipment and not want to buy most of it. I've seen some of your plug comparisons, some were strong against the HW. Others umm, not so much. It is tough! It's why if anything ever disappears from my rack, it's not a change in how I felt about it in the review...it's just that I haven't figure out(yet) how to keep them all at the same time 😫. I only hope these reviews and shootouts will help others hone in on what they like a lot quicker than I did which should save a bunch of time and money! I certainly do appreciate all the effort you put in. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 27, 2022 18:14:02 GMT -6
Every year plugins narrow the quality gap, and add new tricks we never imagined in hardware. Exactly. For me, you can nuke all the vintage gear clone plugins. They are not doing it for me - I'd rather have the hardware any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But I'm very keen on plugins that do something that hardware has never done before. That's where my interest in plugins lies. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 27, 2022 20:23:14 GMT -6
This is where I've ended up: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things that plugins cannot do, the courage to purchase hardware where I can, and the wisdom to know the difference...AMEN. 🤣 I also blew an excellent vocal capture, by having the Interface Pre, a little too hot. Looks like a 'lil Hardware Compressor. AKA the RNC, is again on the 2023 Horizon.  Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 27, 2022 20:24:02 GMT -6
This is where I've ended up: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things that plugins cannot do, the courage to purchase hardware where I can, and the wisdom to know the difference...AMEN. 🤣 Absolute brilliance! Chris |
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Post by smashlord on Dec 27, 2022 21:29:54 GMT -6
I've purchased more hardware this year than any year prior, if that means anything. More mixes come back with no notes and "sounds fantastic" comments, so I see no reason to change course!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 27, 2022 21:42:48 GMT -6
Every year plugins narrow the quality gap, and add new tricks we never imagined in hardware. Exactly. For me, you can nuke all the vintage gear clone plugins. They are not doing it for me - I'd rather have the hardware any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But I'm very keen on plugins that do something that hardware has never done before. That's where my interest in plugins lies. This. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 10:18:15 GMT -6
There is an element of practicality to this whole venture as well, I certainly don't miss recalling an LFAC. Compressors generally have a sweetspot that you can set / forget CLA style, 24 channels of EQ's etc. nah..
Then there's cost to consider and also the balance of impact. Tracking (channels strips) & 2-bus chains can IME pretty much cover it, mixing HW is a sweetener but I noticed that when I'm using compression plugins after tracking HW a couple of dB's doesn't impact the sound all that much. Of course everyone's balance on practicality, cost etc. is different.
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Post by damoongo on Dec 28, 2022 12:06:29 GMT -6
Size and vibe and inspiration from outboard. Precision and special fx from ITB. I use HW inserts at mix and capture the output into the session for recall etc. Nuendo/Cubase makes this seamless. PT really cumbersome still. I don't see a world where outboard isn't a big part of my workflow.
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Post by ericn on Dec 28, 2022 12:19:08 GMT -6
Every year plugins narrow the quality gap, and add new tricks we never imagined in hardware. Exactly. For me, you can nuke all the vintage gear clone plugins. They are not doing it for me - I'd rather have the hardware any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But I'm very keen on plugins that do something that hardware has never done before. That's where my interest in plugins lies. Oh Bill how I want to agree with this and not come across as a hypocrite. Why because this move back towards live and back to the world of having to be portable. Well unfortunately my hypocrisy of Waves basher and anti software emulation is at odds with my wallet and poor body as I prepare for my DIY Soundgrid build and dive into plugins I want to have live! |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 28, 2022 12:51:38 GMT -6
Gee I always thought Waves,
were just swell.
Chris
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 28, 2022 12:54:56 GMT -6
Gee I always thought Waves, were just swell. Chris This Waves joke just sorta crashed and then went out with the tide. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 28, 2022 14:05:49 GMT -6
I could hardly see that coming.
You know microwaves.
Chris
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Post by carymiller on Dec 28, 2022 15:09:22 GMT -6
Every year plugins narrow the quality gap, and add new tricks we never imagined in hardware. Exactly. For me, you can nuke all the vintage gear clone plugins. They are not doing it for me - I'd rather have the hardware any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But I'm very keen on plugins that do something that hardware has never done before. That's where my interest in plugins lies. I'm with you on this Bill...but also, I think plugins are generally better for surgical moves. It's the broad stroke stuff Analog still excels at. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 28, 2022 15:43:40 GMT -6
no changes here. Frequently 8-12 channels compression on way in, 4-8 channels EQ. Couple mix bus things for printing. Rest ITB. Sometimes the plates and tape delays get used, more often than not....not....'F'n recalls......
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Post by damoongo on Dec 28, 2022 17:17:43 GMT -6
no changes here. Frequently 8-12 channels compression on way in, 4-8 channels EQ. Couple mix bus things for printing. Rest ITB. Sometimes the plates and tape delays get used, more often than not....not....'F'n recalls...... My plate is pretty easy for recall. I can get it to null with the original print. Also, there's a great (free) plugin called snapshot that you can insert on a channel. You load photos of hardware settings from your phone into the plugin for easier recall. Gets saved with the session just like any plugin... |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 28, 2022 17:29:30 GMT -6
no changes here. Frequently 8-12 channels compression on way in, 4-8 channels EQ. Couple mix bus things for printing. Rest ITB. Sometimes the plates and tape delays get used, more often than not....not....'F'n recalls...... My plate is pretty easy for recall. I can get it to null with the original print. Also, there's a great (free) plugin called snapshot that you can insert on a channel. You load photos of hardware settings from your phone into the plugin for easier recall. Gets saved with the session just like any plugin... But you have to print the plate again any time there's a change...... |
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Post by damoongo on Dec 28, 2022 17:57:48 GMT -6
My plate is pretty easy for recall. I can get it to null with the original print. Also, there's a great (free) plugin called snapshot that you can insert on a channel. You load photos of hardware settings from your phone into the plugin for easier recall. Gets saved with the session just like any plugin... But you have to print the plate again any time there's a change...... True. But I print it at the same time as I'm printing the new mix. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 28, 2022 18:23:09 GMT -6
Size and vibe and inspiration from outboard. Precision and special fx from ITB. I use HW inserts at mix and capture the output into the session for recall etc. Nuendo/Cubase makes this seamless. PT really cumbersome still. I don't see a world where outboard isn't a big part of my workflow. When and how do you capture output? Do you print/render effects on to the track and just commit? Or do you print a “wet” track and keep the dry track just in case (functionally kind of the same thing I guess). For me I primarily use HW on busses and only adjust by adjusting send levels to the HW. But it limits what I can use HW for. Maybe I should just print after each session and “own” my first gut call. |
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Post by damoongo on Dec 28, 2022 18:32:48 GMT -6
Size and vibe and inspiration from outboard. Precision and special fx from ITB. I use HW inserts at mix and capture the output into the session for recall etc. Nuendo/Cubase makes this seamless. PT really cumbersome still. I don't see a world where outboard isn't a big part of my workflow. When and how do you capture output? Do you print/render effects on to the track and just commit? Or do you print a “wet” track and keep the dry track just in case (functionally kind of the same thing I guess). For me I primarily use HW on busses and only adjust by adjusting send levels to the HW. But it limits what I can use HW for. Maybe I should just print after each session and “own” my first gut call. I print the wet to a new track and mute/disable the original in case of need for deep recall. I do a null test after capturing the print, to verify it's exactly the same as the "live" outboard track. |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Dec 28, 2022 18:44:03 GMT -6
My plate is pretty easy for recall. I can get it to null with the original print. Also, there's a great (free) plugin called snapshot that you can insert on a channel. You load photos of hardware settings from your phone into the plugin for easier recall. Gets saved with the session just like any plugin... But you have to print the plate again any time there's a change...... Doug, do you print your plate return on its own track, or blended with the source? |
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