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Post by jeromemason on Jun 14, 2014 0:55:34 GMT -6
I just finished building two VP28's to put on my Buss and all I can say is wow..... They just make everything seem better. Things get tighter.... smoother on the topend..... midrange all of a sudden jumps out. It just makes the whole mix seem more finished.
I'd struggled to figure out the best way to set these up. I have a BLA PM8 that has 3 different sets of outputs; a transformer, transformerless, and totally passive. Originally I had thought that going passive and letting the VP's make up the gain solely, but after doing 3 different comparisons, I actually like using the transformer outputs on the mixer. I think I know why too.
When I was letting the VP's make up the gain solely in passive, I was really having to juice them up in Mic mode. I liked it, but why not experiment to find the best right? So, I pretty much had my mind made up that the transformerless outs on the mixer would be the way to go, provided an ultra clean line level signal to them and then letting them put some mojo. But it was actually the transformer outputs on the mixer that I liked the most. Everything seemed so much tighter especially the lowend. It got fatter and seemed to just have that sound like you would get off a console. I also got a sense of more depth as well and the dynamics improved also.
These pre's are really like gold on the buss IMO. It's almost like it's what they were designed for. These were definitely the missing piece of the puzzle for me, couldn't be happier with them.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 14, 2014 7:48:56 GMT -6
I have someone putting my VP28's together right now...I've had the VC528's before, but had to sell them (thanks, Spotify) and loved them. From my understanding, the VP28's should be more colored - is that right, jsteiger? I struggled with which ones to get this time, but ultimately decided having the pre's would be cooler than having the filters. So - I'm gonna go 2mix out into VP28s into Burl. |
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Post by jsteiger on Jun 14, 2014 8:15:02 GMT -6
Yes I think you will find the VP28's a little more colorful due to running thru the 2622 input transformer that is not in the ML2.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 14, 2014 8:24:12 GMT -6
I just finished building two VP28's to put on my Buss and all I can say is wow..... They just make everything seem better. Things get tighter.... smoother on the topend..... midrange all of a sudden jumps out. It just makes the whole mix seem more finished. I'd struggled to figure out the best way to set these up. I have a BLA PM8 that has 3 different sets of outputs; a transformer, transformerless, and totally passive. Originally I had thought that going passive and letting the VP's make up the gain solely, but after doing 3 different comparisons, I actually like using the transformer outputs on the mixer. I think I know why too. When I was letting the VP's make up the gain solely in passive, I was really having to juice them up in Mic mode. I liked it, but why not experiment to find the best right? So, I pretty much had my mind made up that the transformerless outs on the mixer would be the way to go, provided an ultra clean line level signal to them and then letting them put some mojo. But it was actually the transformer outputs on the mixer that I liked the most. Everything seemed so much tighter especially the lowend. It got fatter and seemed to just have that sound like you would get off a console. I also got a sense of more depth as well and the dynamics improved also. These pre's are really like gold on the buss IMO. It's almost like it's what they were designed for. These were definitely the missing piece of the puzzle for me, couldn't be happier with them. You're gonna make me cry!  |
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Post by scumbum on Jun 14, 2014 9:00:25 GMT -6
I still haven't tried the VP28 .
But I do use my missing link on everything .
Did some test the other day with bass , having the missing link in and out of the chain . It really tames and compresses the signal for the better . I was watching the signal level and it was much more under control with the link . So I'd imagine with it on the 2buss its kinda like mix buss compression .
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 14, 2014 13:21:25 GMT -6
You're gonna make me cry! haha.... hey man... told ya I wouldn't let those suckers go to waste. Pretty simple build IMO, the opamps are probably the most difficult, but that's why I keep around different gauge solder and iron tips, makes life much simpler. What impressed me the most, when I got them in and everything set up, they were almost identical in level, I mean like I don't even know how to describe the small variance between them. jsteiger, that's impressive my man. I've got some clips from the different types of setups, I might throw them up and get some opinions to see what the consensus is, I trust my ears but my ego doesn't prevent me from taking advice, especially around here. If it was over on the other site I wouldn't even consider it. |
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Post by jsteiger on Jun 14, 2014 18:05:25 GMT -6
You're gonna make me cry! What impressed me the most, when I got them in and everything set up, they were almost identical in level, I mean like I don't even know how to describe the small variance between them. jsteiger, that's impressive my man. Yeah that always make me happy too. I have built tons of them and the level variance is typically less than .05dB. I personally calibrate, burn in and final test every Heider pre and have never seen more than a .05dB difference in level at any gain or fader setting. Typically the very lowest and very highest gain setting will be the biggest variance (.05dB) and the rest are within maybe .02 to .03dB at the worst. BTW, one of my Chicago rock producer/mixer buddies has been loving the Heiders on his mix bus  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 14, 2014 18:35:38 GMT -6
DAMNIT! I should've bought another Heider!
Kidding...glad I got the VP28's...
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Post by odyssey76 on Jun 14, 2014 19:28:54 GMT -6
Has anyone compared the sonic differences between the VP28's and the Heider's on the mix bus? I'd be real curious since the Heider is going to be my next buy. Any kind of description between the two would be appreciated.
jeromemason - congrats on the new build. I'm looking forward to getting some CAPI on my mix bus as well.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 14, 2014 20:18:43 GMT -6
What impressed me the most, when I got them in and everything set up, they were almost identical in level, I mean like I don't even know how to describe the small variance between them. jsteiger, that's impressive my man. Yeah that always make me happy too. I have built tons of them and the level variance is typically less than .05dB. I personally calibrate, burn in and final test every Heider pre and have never seen more than a .05dB difference in level at any gain or fader setting. Typically the very lowest and very highest gain setting will be the biggest variance (.05dB) and the rest are within maybe .02 to .03dB at the worst. BTW, one of my Chicago rock producer/mixer buddies has been loving the Heiders on his mix bus It may have been that much... I mean it was extremely small, and since I use a summing mixer it was easily fixed by panning a few things a hair when I gain staged it. I gotta tell you, the design is just amazing though, just looking at how you placed everything, and just the overall circuit idea, it's just top notch Jeff. I'm still amazed that I built two of these for under $700, and that anything off the shelf that would have the beauty and design quality of this would be more than double, not to mention the sound. Using it, I totally understand why the two stage setup is perfect for the buss, and it really does make it feel like you're using a console. I can feel that same lowend coming through much less restricted like a console, the saturation you can actually feel like on the snare when it's busting a little, I mean I just can't give you enough credit for this Pre man, I'm blown away by all facets of it. It also makes me feel good knowing I built them, and definitely gives me a comfort level, kind of like I know the thing, if anything gets screwy I'll probably know where to look. You just can't get that with gear pre assembled. Not to mention taking time and making sure every solder joint is perfect, the resistors have some flow through, sounds weird, but to me I like to see those kinds of things, I guess I like things built the way I like them built. Makes it really hard to buy gear off the shelf. I'm definitely a Capi guy from here on out, you certainly blew my socks off with these. Btw..... any chance you might delve into the area or program Eq's? This may seem crazy, but there is virtually no DIY program Eq's out there. There are pultecs sure, but I'm talking about something close to a GML, something that doesn't really get in the way, but is sweet with broad Q's. Just a thought my man. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2014 14:15:14 GMT -6
Just got them back! Woohoo!
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Post by deehope on Jun 17, 2014 19:33:26 GMT -6
Yeah that always make me happy too. I have built tons of them and the level variance is typically less than .05dB. I personally calibrate, burn in and final test every Heider pre and have never seen more than a .05dB difference in level at any gain or fader setting. Typically the very lowest and very highest gain setting will be the biggest variance (.05dB) and the rest are within maybe .02 to .03dB at the worst. BTW, one of my Chicago rock producer/mixer buddies has been loving the Heiders on his mix bus It may have been that much... I mean it was extremely small, and since I use a summing mixer it was easily fixed by panning a few things a hair when I gain staged it. I gotta tell you, the design is just amazing though, just looking at how you placed everything, and just the overall circuit idea, it's just top notch Jeff. I'm still amazed that I built two of these for under $700, and that anything off the shelf that would have the beauty and design quality of this would be more than double, not to mention the sound. Using it, I totally understand why the two stage setup is perfect for the buss, and it really does make it feel like you're using a console. I can feel that same lowend coming through much less restricted like a console, the saturation you can actually feel like on the snare when it's busting a little, I mean I just can't give you enough credit for this Pre man, I'm blown away by all facets of it. It also makes me feel good knowing I built them, and definitely gives me a comfort level, kind of like I know the thing, if anything gets screwy I'll probably know where to look. You just can't get that with gear pre assembled. Not to mention taking time and making sure every solder joint is perfect, the resistors have some flow through, sounds weird, but to me I like to see those kinds of things, I guess I like things built the way I like them built. Makes it really hard to buy gear off the shelf. I'm definitely a Capi guy from here on out, you certainly blew my socks off with these. Btw..... any chance you might delve into the area or program Eq's? This may seem crazy, but there is virtually no DIY program Eq's out there. There are pultecs sure, but I'm talking about something close to a GML, something that doesn't really get in the way, but is sweet with broad Q's. Just a thought my man. there used to be a sontec DIY. Mastering grade I believe. |
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Post by zaiata on Jun 18, 2014 14:12:18 GMT -6
I also completed a pair of VP28s, So far tried tracking vox and acoustic guitar with amazing results. I will really like to try the VP28s on the 2 BUSS but need to figure out how to integrate.... I am using a Neve 8816 summing. Any Ideas? as inserts in the 8816, after/before the 8816 main output?, get the 8816 out of the way and send two outputs from the symphony to the VP28s ? Lots of possibilities Once Jeff get more Grayhill switches in stock I am going for more and a couple of VP312 for overheads. |
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Post by jsteiger on Jun 18, 2014 15:41:13 GMT -6
Once Jeff get more Grayhill switches in stock..... Grayhill really messed me up on this order. They usually confirm an order with an 8 week lead-time but ship in 6 or 7. This order they confirmed with 10 weeks and it's looking like every bit of 10 weeks. They are due next week the 23rd. Its very hard to get these long lead parts on the money. I appreciate everyone hanging in there. |
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