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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 9, 2022 5:44:44 GMT -6
I hope a simple question:)
I really like the sound of my Daking (trident) pres.
I use my ob pres/comps while tracking, mix itb and use ob with inserts on my 2 buss, currently just go to ssl clone g comp with or without transformers.
The SB has the api/neve pres, inserts and pultec eq, but why would I want to change the sound or why not just buy an ob eq for my 2 bus?
The sb is give or take a $2000 usd expenditure, the high voltage audio eq is $1,000.
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2022 9:20:21 GMT -6
I'll give others the opportunity to chime in on the sound / reasons they like/love/hate? the Silver Bullet, but I can clear up some of the other potential misconceptions. I view the Silver Bullet as essentially a 2 channel console. 2 Channels of Api, 2 Channels of Neve, and now, 2 Channels of SSL 4k. All of which can be cascaded in various ways to simulate working on real world vintage consoles from back in the day. A long time ago, a dear mentor of mine (Ronnie Capone - Stax, and way more) told me that if I could - I should track on an API, and mix on a Neve. Or vice versa. The combo of those two sonic imprints is the sound of so many classic records. That stuck with me a long time. We were way deep into the "only outboard, tape machines and consoles" era at that point. As we entered DAW land, a single mic pre / compressor was not giving me the same juice that a console and outboard was - and I realized that there is WAY more circuitry in a console than just the mic pre. Often a dozen or more trips thru transformers, class A amplifiers, etc.. So I set about on experiments. The Silver Bullet is the culmination of those experiments. It's meant to be a mic pre, a re-amping device, an analog saturator, a 2 bus processor, an EQ, Filters, an image 3D-izer, etc. It does a lot of things, but is designed to be elegant and simple in operation. It was designed to be used in every stage of your production. There are a bunch of guys here who have Silver Bullets, and Silver Bullet mk2's. They can fill you in more about the sound and how they use it in their particular workflows. The High Voltage EQ is a more utilitarian type of typical EQ - what you would expect from an EQ. The Silver Bullet is more of a tone shaping EQ that is dropped into a console topology. Oh, and for clarification, the SB EQ is decidedly NOT a pultec style EQ. Actually, I like it way more than pultec's. It's a broad band Baxandall style EQ with an Air band that I am in love with, and a mid and low band to boot. Plus vintage filters. If you've got any specific questions I'd be happy to answer. Cheers, Maybe Darren drsax can comment about his particular workflow and the differences between mk1 and mk2 sonically. And Chad just had a new experience with his son on the mk1 version and I think wants to add a mk2. I know @teejay heard a recording Chad s son did and has been looking for that "air" for years and found it in Chad's son's recording. There are dozens of stories out there. And more than a handful of guys using it every day on this board.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 9, 2022 10:15:03 GMT -6
Thx, my bad, I meant Baxandall: need more coffee !
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Post by Chad on Dec 9, 2022 10:18:57 GMT -6
drbill Bill, :-) Thanks for bringing this up! I was super pleased with how the Silver Bullet MK1 worked in vocal recording as well as prepping each track and running the SB on the mixbus for my son’s single he and I worked on together the last few weeks. And, of course, drsax (Darren) did an outstanding performance on the track! Rather than wait until it’s posted on Spotify, I’m going to just add a link right here of the final master which features the silver bullet on several individual tracks, plus the mixbus: spotify.link/cv8wdkepADb👆🏼 Sometime in the future, I will replace this link with the streaming link, but for now, I don’t want to keep putting this off. It’s been mentioned by a couple of guys now, and I think Darren‘s performance alone deserves the attention!! PS: And, yes, I now have a SB MK2 on order. ================================================================ Production Notes:My son wrote/programmed the song on an iMac, using Logic Pro. For this single, this is a list of the main pieces of hardware I brought in: - MOTU M4 interface
- Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet MKI
- Heritage Audio OST-4 v2 with these modules:
- Rupert Neve Designs 535 Diode Bridge Comps (x2 - for mixbus / mastering along with Silver Bullet)
- Serpent Audio Splice 500
- Tegeler Audio Vocal Leveler 500 Opto Comp (THIS is amazing!)
- United Studio Technologies Twin87 (U87 clone) – We both prefer this set to "Vintage" mode.
Prepping for Final mix:» PLEASE NOTE: Because of the simple setup, all re-amping of individual tracks included running through the Silver Bullet and then out of the SB's inserts to the various compressors. So, as I talk about hitting comps in the following bullets, it's understood that this always included the A » N mojo setting on the Silver Bullet. » I ran the Kick & Snare out through the 535 for added "punch" » Then sent his lead vocal out through the Serpent Audio Splice into the Tegeler Vocal Leveler Opto, both only hitting around 3-4 dB to just smooth things out, using the Black (D) circuit instead of Blue Stripe » Also sent the Bass out to the Splice using the Blue Stripe mode, just because it sounded great. » Got a rough mix completed & emailed it over to drsax Darren. » A few days later, drsax Darren gave me then two files: A) Dry sax running through his Chandler Redd mic; B) His Effects send without the dry signal so we could mix the reverb/delays to taste. » For the final mix, we ran everything out through the Silver Bullet (Driving A into N on the "MOJO" circuit), using the pair of RND 535's set to "Auto / Fast" on the SB's inserts, in order to make it punchy and to take the place of where I'd normally want to reach for an SSL VCA comp – Honestly, I like the 535's better than a VCA! On the EQ setting of the Silver Bullet, we had the "Punch" turned off; On the EQ, the LF knob was at "0", HF knob was set to "Presence" mode, and boosting to about to the second line/marker (about 2 o'clock).
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Post by drsax on Dec 9, 2022 10:41:48 GMT -6
I’m happy to chime in and I will keep it simple. The silver bullet, both Mark one, and Mark two, sound absolutely incredible. Period. They really do sound like the center section of a Console. But with less noise. The workflow and ease of use far surpasses slapping a couple mic pres on your master bus. When you look at all the features of the Silver bullet, you simply cannot attain those features for less money if you put together the same type of set up with seperate pieces of gear. That would require two pairs of mic Pres (2 Neve and 2 api types), and a stereo EQ. Quality is everything and the Silver bullet has it in spades.
Regarding the mark, one versus Mark two, here’s the bottom line. You will not feel like you’re missing out with either. They sound so darn good. The mark two gives you the extra blending in the C slot, which is very nice. And the aspect ratio and other added features are very nice. But either way you get sweet analog goodness. The C slot on the mark two is a great addition and opens up many other possibilities down the road. With the current hit makers in the C slot, it gives you some of that recognizable SSL mojo. But the sound of the two units using basic settings is extremely close. These pieces are centerpieces in my studio sonically. If I had to get rid of every piece of gear in my studio and could only keep one, it would probably be the silver bullet. Some people like simpler settings, and for them, a mark one might be more desirable, and then many people want more ability to tweak, so the mark two would be more desirable for them. Here’s the bottom line, I’m glad I have both, but would be happy with either.
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2022 11:45:50 GMT -6
Thx, my bad, I meant Baxandall: need more coffee ! Hahaaaa!! See too!!!
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Post by ab101 on Dec 9, 2022 12:13:00 GMT -6
drbill - please elaborate on this part of your statement above: "...and now, 2 Channels of SSL 4k. ..."
I have the Silver Bullet 2. Does this have to do with the colour modules?
Thanks tons!!!!
(Love the Silver Bullet - and a great way to add nice presence/air that frankly allowed me to sell my maag eq.)
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2022 13:02:22 GMT -6
drbill - please elaborate on this part of your statement above: "...and now, 2 Channels of SSL 4k. ..."
I have the Silver Bullet 2. Does this have to do with the colour modules?
Thanks tons!!!! (Love the Silver Bullet - and a great way to add nice presence/air that frankly allowed me to sell my maag eq.) Yes. The C Mojo/Color slot comes loaded with Hitmaker4000 modules from the factory. Standard. Unless you have changed them out, the HM4000's are essentially the center/master section of a 4000 console. Believe it or not. LOL. yup, on those little cards.... Brad went to great effort to make them as identical possible using SMT design tech to fit everything in there.
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Post by Blackdawg on Dec 9, 2022 13:06:48 GMT -6
I own both the Silver Bullet MK1 and the EQ6-3 HVA EQ.
NOT the same things by a long show. Work very nicely together though.
They also both play nicely with an SSL bus comp
The silverbullet for me is the foundation of my analog for bus processing or mastering. Or sometimes its the last thing in the chain, but also sometimes the only thing OTB.
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Post by M57 on Dec 9, 2022 15:26:11 GMT -6
Does the C-Mix knob impart a parallel processing type of functionality? If so, I'm wondering if how folks use it with the Hitmaker4000 module. Wouldn't there be phase issues if it's set to anything other than 0 or 100%?
Which brings a thought to mind (No doubt it's been suggested before, but just making sure) Wouldn't it be nice if the insert(s) had a dedicated Mix knob, especially seeing as none of my outboard gear has one. I'm thinking a lot of people are inserting compressors in there, and a lot of those don't have mix knobs ..especially the vintage ones. Mk3 maybe??
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Post by Ward on Dec 9, 2022 16:15:53 GMT -6
Thx, my bad, I meant Baxandall: need more coffee ! If you're like me and I know you are . . . you probably have the usual creative people barriers of dyslexia and ADHD and you keep saying and writing BANDAXALL even though you know it's Bax and all
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2022 16:36:37 GMT -6
Does the C-Mix knob impart a parallel processing type of functionality? If so, I'm wondering if how folks use it with the Hitmaker4000 module. Wouldn't there be phase issues if it's set to anything other than 0 or 100%? Yes - Parallel. No phase issues. It's all analog.
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Post by ericn on Dec 9, 2022 17:48:13 GMT -6
drbill - please elaborate on this part of your statement above: "...and now, 2 Channels of SSL 4k. ..."
I have the Silver Bullet 2. Does this have to do with the colour modules?
Thanks tons!!!! (Love the Silver Bullet - and a great way to add nice presence/air that frankly allowed me to sell my maag eq.) Yes. The C Mojo/Color slot comes loaded with Hitmaker4000 modules from the factory. Standard. Unless you have changed them out, the HM4000's are essentially the center/master section of a 4000 console. Believe it or not. LOL. yup, on those little cards.... Brad went to great effort to make them as identical possible using SMT design tech to fit everything in there. Well 90 percent of the circuitry in any part of an SSL is the automation 😁
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Post by chessparov on Dec 9, 2022 21:35:41 GMT -6
Again this discussion is WAY above me. But... The very first video I saw/heard of the SB blew me away! Chris
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Post by ragan on Dec 9, 2022 23:55:47 GMT -6
Man, I have always wanted to like the SB. And I more or less do like it. I think it’s a really cool idea. But I had my good buddy run some of my own mixes through his SB using all manner of configurations at different levels, and he meticulously generated a folder full of all the prints. I didn’t dislike them by any means, but I just didn’t really dig what I heard. It didn’t sound much different than running the mixes through my mic pres. It kind of put me off considering it. I dunno, not the same as using one myself, but I got a pretty thorough glimpse into the sonics. Wasn’t a love match. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 10, 2022 5:45:19 GMT -6
Man, I have always wanted to like the SB. And I more or less do like it. I think it’s a really cool idea. But I had my good buddy run some of my own mixes through his SB using all manner of configurations at different levels, and he meticulously generated a folder full of all the prints. I didn’t dislike them by any means, but I just didn’t really dig what I heard. It didn’t sound much different than running the mixes through my mic pres. It kind of put me off considering it. I dunno, not the same as using one myself, but I got a pretty thorough glimpse into the sonics. Wasn’t a love match. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think it's all about aesthetics and production goals. I demoed a SB and I thought it had a very definite sound and absolutely achieved that which it set out to do. In the end I preferred the sound of my Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Plus and Swift EQ, both tube units (the Phoenix can be driven into and sounds truly beautiful) I'm not personally very keen on getting hair on a stereo bus by driving solid state pre's - it's not a sound I particularly care for but I can completely understand why people do really dig that sound. And for anyone starting out on a budget with no pre's and no outboard then I think making a SB MK2 the heart of their project studio would be a very smart move as it appears to be incredible value for money for what it offers.
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Post by drbill on Dec 10, 2022 11:09:21 GMT -6
Man, I have always wanted to like the SB. ragan - you can certainly approximate what the SB does by running your mixes thru mic pre's. That's where I started on this journey more than 15 years ago. The SB is the culmination of those experiments for me. If you are truly interested, I'd highly encourage mixing "into" it - not not just dropping a finalized mix "thru" it post mix. Access Analog is a good option for that if you really want to check it out. Also, the workflow aspect is a large part of the SB, and sending mixes to a buddy to run them thru the unit, or even Access Analog pretty much negates all of that. At any rate, thanks for the consideration - no single piece of gear is for everyone. <thumbsup>. PS - of note : On the mk2, you can drop tube, tape, SSL buss, etc, type treatments into the expansion slots. And the Aspect Ratio, expansion slots, hypermatter PS, and air on it's own band have been a huge improvement over mk1 for me personally.
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Post by Chad on Dec 10, 2022 12:02:47 GMT -6
Working with my son in his simple iMac based bedroom setup, I first brought in a pair of Rupert Neve Designs 542 tape emulators. We were messing with those on 30 IPS as well as 15 IPS and all manner of settings using red and blue silk. I love the 542s, but in this context, trying to find the right tone to mix into for the final stereo bus, these were not working. Bringing in the Silver Bullet instead, it was instant love. Super simple for us to dial-in the sound we were both hearing on his mixbus, and then we started running individual tracks through it, and how they were stacking up together was gorgeous.
Maybe not for everybody, but in this situation, I found the SB presented a much faster process of dialing-in the sound I had in my head. And that Bax EQ + Vintage mode rocks.
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 10, 2022 13:12:49 GMT -6
Working with my son in his simple iMac based bedroom setup, I first brought in a pair of Rupert Neve Designs 542 tape emulators. We were messing with those on 30 IPS as well as 15 IPS and all manner of settings using red and blue silk. I love the 542s, but in this context, trying to find the right tone to mix into for the final stereo bus, these were not working. Bringing in the Silver Bullet instead, it was instant love. Super simple for us to dial-in the sound we were both hearing on his mixbus, and then we started running individual tracks through it, and how they were stacking up together was gorgeous. Maybe not for everybody, but in this situation, I found the SB presented a much faster process of dialing-in the sound I had in my head. And that Bax EQ + Vintage mode rocks. Chad could you tell a little about the actual process?
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Post by Chad on Dec 10, 2022 13:22:23 GMT -6
Working with my son in his simple iMac based bedroom setup, I first brought in a pair of Rupert Neve Designs 542 tape emulators. We were messing with those on 30 IPS as well as 15 IPS and all manner of settings using red and blue silk. I love the 542s, but in this context, trying to find the right tone to mix into for the final stereo bus, these were not working. Bringing in the Silver Bullet instead, it was instant love. Super simple for us to dial-in the sound we were both hearing on his mixbus, and then we started running individual tracks through it, and how they were stacking up together was gorgeous. Maybe not for everybody, but in this situation, I found the SB presented a much faster process of dialing-in the sound I had in my head. And that Bax EQ + Vintage mode rocks. Chad could you tell a little about the actual process? Hi, Greg! Thanks for asking. Sure, I've now listed my production notes in this thread, and you should see it if you scroll up. Chad
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 10, 2022 13:27:31 GMT -6
I will re-read then. Thanks.
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Post by ragan on Dec 10, 2022 14:03:27 GMT -6
Man, I have always wanted to like the SB. PS - of note : On the mk2, you can drop tube, tape, SSL buss, etc, type treatments into the expansion slots. And the Aspect Ratio, expansion slots, hypermatter PS, and air on it's own band have been a huge improvement over mk1 for me personally. Yeah, I've got a pair of Colour Palettes and some modules. I do dig that format and think there are some very cool sonics to be gotten out of it. So the Colour Module option on the Silver Bullet MK2 isn't a draw for me personally, having gotten those sonics for so much cheaper already.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 10, 2022 15:13:59 GMT -6
To me, the draw on the SB 2 is the eq for mixes.
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Post by drbill on Dec 10, 2022 15:18:44 GMT -6
PS - of note : On the mk2, you can drop tube, tape, SSL buss, etc, type treatments into the expansion slots. And the Aspect Ratio, expansion slots, hypermatter PS, and air on it's own band have been a huge improvement over mk1 for me personally. Yeah, I've got a pair of Colour Palettes and some modules. I do dig that format and think there are some very cool sonics to be gotten out of it. So the Colour Module option on the Silver Bullet MK2 isn't a draw for me personally, having gotten those sonics for so much cheaper already. gotcha. The real beauty for me is in the cascading, and how they work together as a "unit". I've got 12 color hosts, but still value the ones in the SB highly. BTW, of note, they are not JUST colour slots. We are developing LTL mojo amps that will fit in a dual slot config that can go far beyond what a colour module can do.
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Post by M57 on Dec 10, 2022 15:53:16 GMT -6
So I'm trying to figure out the slots. There are three?? One is the stereo slot taken up by the SSL buss (which comes with the unit), and it has a mix knob. The other are mono, dedicated to each channel, and are delivered empty in the stock unit. If I'm on the right track, how are the two mono units controlled? The simple schematic at the bottom of the Mk2 page on the LTL site labels the C-Drive knob as controlling "Plugin Slots." Does this mean that all three slots all linked to the C-DRV knob? Are they also linked to the C-MIX knob?
Just making sure, Is the 'dual slot' you speak of the slot that the SSL buss sits in? I'd want to remove it in order to use the LTL mojo amps coming in the future, right?
Thanks!
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