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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2022 2:43:36 GMT -6
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Post by copperx on Dec 1, 2022 9:56:32 GMT -6
I have no respect for Katz.
However, his graphs make me want to take a look at Kelvin.
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Post by bchurch on Dec 1, 2022 10:44:11 GMT -6
While I can appreciate scientific measurements as a “nice to know” perspective, I don’t make mix (or gear) decisions because of them. Hell, there are likely times I am making those decisions in spite of them. Right is sometimes wrong.
It reminds me of a guy I knew back in my edumuhcation days at music school. Insanely talented jazz drummer and concert tympanist. He had something of a breakdown halfway through his undergraduate degree and bailed. I stopped by his place to say goodbye and asked him why - he was so talented and really had a better shot than most of our classmates at “doing something”. His response? “I love music. I love it too much to see it turned into dots.”
Granted, the school definitely did over-emphasize sight reading. I was in the music production / engineering program, we didn’t sight read mic techniques.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Dec 1, 2022 10:53:06 GMT -6
I would hate to hear a mix with -20 dBFS RMS of 19K and 20K (what he's using to make his point). The aliasing would be the least of your concerns.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2022 11:16:35 GMT -6
In this article, he is just reporting the facts of his analysis and provides the data.
Either he did measurements wrong or it is what it is.
I’m interested in running “clean” plugs on my 2 buss while mastering so I appreciated the references to specific plug ins to try out.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Dec 1, 2022 11:33:31 GMT -6
What I'm saying is to get the aliasing out of the plugin, he was feeding it a ridiculously hot signal for the frequencies he choose. Then the aliasing was -105 dBFS or less. I'm not saying he's lying, I'm saying he's being very unrealistic.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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Post by ericn on Dec 1, 2022 12:30:05 GMT -6
In the few conversations I have ever had with Bob one major point always came to light, he uses measurements to confirm what he is hearing. Unrealistic conditions? Maybe, but I would be more inclined to say something like “ seldom encountered”. If he’s hearing something at some point he wants to confirm it via measurement, isn’t that the route to better tools?
I might be more inclined to using measurement tools than the average studio AE, in the world of live and install we use them much more as time savers and for basic troubleshooting.
A related non audio story in my building we have an intermittent issue with the fire alarm system on my floor, we know it exists but it never happens when the alarm guys are present so the landlord has scheduled an appointment where the alarm company is going to come in and take all kinds of measurements of every component in the system. A major pain in the ass? Hell yes but we know the problem exists and I can lock the dogs in the bathroom for 1/2 an hour so they can check all the sensors in my apt. To stop the damn beeping at the alarm panel on the other side of my bedroom wall!
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Post by Ward on Dec 1, 2022 12:36:52 GMT -6
I felt like I was taking a rorshock test
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Dec 1, 2022 12:39:58 GMT -6
I felt like I was taking a rorshock test It reminded me of how the Audio Precision manuals are a great cure for insomnia! I have found BSS Soundweb completele documentation to be just as scintillating. |
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Post by svart on Dec 1, 2022 12:55:26 GMT -6
I'm not understanding the reasoning behind what he's done. 44.1K sampling would put nyquist at 22.05KHz. Putting a 19K and 20K tone into the mix would immediately produce strong 21K and 18K tones plus -1KHz/1KHz tones without adding nyquist folding. Doing that would produce a wide matrix of tones, 22.05K+/-21K,20K,19K,18K,1K,etc... Which is what it exactly does on his first graph.
This is KNOWN and expected, which is exactly why someone would use two methods of getting around this:
Oversampling. Most sigma-delta converters use internal oversampling and WILL NOT have this issue anyway..
Increasing sampling rate. Simply stepping up to 88.2K or 96K would put most mix products out of band even if you're not using native oversampling..
It seems he's trying to explain why you need fancy analog-based digital processing, when in fact this isn't much of an issue anymore with floating point math in plugins.
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