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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 10:21:07 GMT -6
Finally went back to Mpx today, maybe not as good of an emulation as Slate's VTM (when I hear the VTM A/B tests Steve posted I could not pick them apart) but my god is MPX a good sounding plugin. Much more pleasing to my ear, especially on drums.
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Post by henge on Jun 11, 2014 10:53:00 GMT -6
Hmm is that Waves?
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Post by donr on Jun 11, 2014 12:29:27 GMT -6
The 'Kramer' is better as an effect imo, than the Slate, and vise versa.
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Post by littlesicily on Jun 11, 2014 14:27:20 GMT -6
I dig the MPX a lot more, as well.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2014 15:14:12 GMT -6
I have to say...I just don't get the VTM...I continue to try and use it on stuff and find myself either not feeling like it's effecting things enough to make a difference...yeah, it adds low end, but once you take that prominence back a little, I'm kinda like - I don't hear much of a difference. Maybe most people are slamming it and getting into distortion and that's what they like, but I don't really ever do that. Plus, the last time I tried, I really couldn't tell a difference between the different tapes and not much of one between the tape speed. And I especially can't hear any difference in the 16 and 2 track selector. Maybe my monitoring is bad. Maybe my ears are bad. Maybe I'm not nuanced enough as an engineer. That's all a possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 15:28:47 GMT -6
henge yep by Waves. I think JK nailed what I really wanted to say. I'm definitely not driving anything hard but there's a very pleasing distortion on the MPX one that just works on anything to my ears. Too bad, really wanted to believe in VTM and I bought VTM only on a whim cause I thought it would be much better than the MPX.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2014 15:45:23 GMT -6
I have to try this again, but I remember putting the MPX on a snare and using the drive knob (I think that's what it's called - it's in the middle) and really thought it did some killer stuff to the Snare...
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Post by henge on Jun 11, 2014 16:56:15 GMT -6
So what's this wup thing? I don't own any waves stuff. I see guys complaining about the wup.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 11, 2014 17:12:47 GMT -6
I don't think either one always works. Satin and the Abbey Road J37 can also win comparisons and sometimes they all sound worse than nothing at all.
Choice is good!
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Post by henge on Jun 11, 2014 17:51:27 GMT -6
I don't think either one always works. Satin and the Abbey Road J37 can also win comparisons and sometimes they all sound worse than nothing at all. Choice is good! I only have VTM and alot of times it makes sources worse! When it works it works though. I'll check out MPX when it goes on sale I guess. |
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Post by joey808 on Jun 11, 2014 18:27:21 GMT -6
Did a session with VTM switched to MPX, and what a difference! I liked MPX better.
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Post by ragan on Jun 11, 2014 19:57:20 GMT -6
MPX sounds a lot more 'effect-y' to me. I used and then didn't use VTM for awhile. I've been back on it lately. Mostly just across the master fader. I think it does some really nice things to the stereo image and the general tone. Better, like any tape emu, to mix into it from early on. I hear quite a bit of difference between the tapes, speeds, etc. I'm almost always on 30 ips, normal bias. It's really nice in the 16 track mode for taming harsh vocals. My main gripe with it is you can't track with it on the master fader very well. Too much latency. Slate has explained that they can't shrink the latency without changing the sound. What's being fed into it dynamically changes what it's outputting in the same way it does on a real machine. The latency is inherent.
I do like MPX as an effect though. Great for Keith Richards-y dirty acoustic guitar a la "Street Fighting Man" and, as has been said, cool on drums. Also makes a really nice tape delay.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 20:02:35 GMT -6
So what's this wup thing? I don't own any waves stuff. I see guys complaining about the wup. Every year, you have to pay a sum to Waves to b able to update and have support. There used to be no price limit and many complained. I, like others, only pay wup when something new is happened with my bundles that is needed, like 64bit support - think that was the last bump for me. There NOW is a $200 limit and with my bundles, I max it out. so, if I do it every other year, it isn't bad and there is usually something cool added to my bundles by then and it becomes just the price of a new plug. I haven't tried the others but like VTM. I only use it on the 2buss though. I did find it does weird things when there are many instances. More than a low bump, there is a meatiness that happens - imho. I haven't tried it as an effect on a single track but one plug that is fun that way is Softube's Saturation knob. Not a tape sim but similar style of toy. |
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Post by lolo on Jun 11, 2014 21:35:46 GMT -6
VTM can be great, so can MPX. Like VTM on the master. Also like the other waves Tape.
Also if you like the MPX effect also try klanghelm SDRR. Yeah its not tape but its fantastic as a effect. Great saturation tool. All are good ta have in the arsenal. Dont forget about Decapitator. Also not tape though. That thing is a beast
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 11, 2014 23:04:52 GMT -6
One thing about tape emulators is that you don't want to hit them very hard at all.
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Post by lolo on Jun 11, 2014 23:07:38 GMT -6
True Bob. I tend to trim before i hit them
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Post by henge on Jun 12, 2014 5:25:34 GMT -6
OHne thing about tape emulators is that you don't want to hit them very hard at all. How hard are you hittig the emu's? I understood that the sweet spot in VTM is when the vu's are peaking at 0. |
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Post by ragan on Jun 12, 2014 9:25:24 GMT -6
I'd be interested in your gain staging thoughts too, Bob. Especially re: VTM
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Post by littlesicily on Jun 12, 2014 9:56:26 GMT -6
WUP simply means Waves is gonna WUP your ass every year with a fee.  |
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Post by donr on Jun 12, 2014 10:05:30 GMT -6
Having watched the pro's in the 70's record us, I can't bring myself to 'slam' VU meters on tape or console emu's, especially tape. Back then, the drum tracks sometimes would get into the red on the 2", but never pinning meters. Crosstalk was an issue on multitrack tape machines. You had to respect the tracks adjacent to the one in record. When console automation info or SMPTE was recorded on the last track(s) you could mess it up by recording too loud on the nearest adjacent track.
The tape emulation that does the least harm I have is UAD Studer. Generally makes things sound better, if they need to. I've gotten pleasing results turning the noise slider all the way down in VTM and hitting the level meters softer than you would do with a real tape machine. Usually use FG9.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 12, 2014 10:27:02 GMT -6
My ears tell me that it's quite a bit lower. I reduce the level 6 dB before hitting mpx and turn its level way way down. VTM doesn't need as much.
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Post by henge on Jun 12, 2014 10:40:41 GMT -6
WUP simply means Waves is gonna WUP your ass every year with a fee. I'm not getting why I should have to pay for support. If I buy this thing, Waves will be the only dev that I'm paying support too. So if I get MPX and something goes wrong, and I don't get the wup, do they tell me to fuck off and figure it out myself? |
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Post by henge on Jun 12, 2014 10:41:24 GMT -6
My ears tell me that it's quite a bit lower. I reduce the level 6 dB before hitting mpx and turn its level way way down. VTM doesn't need as much. Thanks Bob! |
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Post by wreck on Jun 12, 2014 10:51:13 GMT -6
I'm a VTM fan, but I don't have MPX. I honestly don't love any of my waves plugins. I couldn't get by without them, but someone probably has the ones I use beat if I did the search, spent the money. It's such a pain to have different companies and doing upgrades like every year for whatever reason. Kinda getting burned out on plugins at this point I guess. The less I use, the better is sounds anyway.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 12, 2014 11:06:25 GMT -6
All software developers eventually charge for support simply because keeping up with host DAW and OS changes costs money. Waves just charges yearly instead of creating new version upgrades. The support plans and the plug-ins are both available at a discount from dealers.
A lot of dealers sold waves bundles with new Pro Tools systems. As a result many people ended up paying support for dozens of waves plug-ins that they simply never used. This became a PR disaster for waves complicated by the fact that different people used a completely different set of waves plug-ins.
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